Free on the left. Visually similar with one glaring exception: Hoji Free has a DIN shaped toe while Hoji Pro boasts the much touted and ever reviled Speed Nose.
Side-by-side comparo of the Hoji Pro and Free
“Twins; God’s way of saying one of you is a rough draft.” I’m not sure the human twins I know would appreciate that little meme, or perhaps it is “twin humor” I don’t quite get? In any case, I thought it applied nicely to gear with similar names and designs, and our constant struggle to parse out the differences. In this case Hoji Pro and Hoji Free ski touring boots. Is there a rough draft in the pair? Read on.
First, if there is any endless issue with ski boots, it’s “last width,” that ethereal non-standard way of explicating a boot’s roominess on your foot. Free is noticeably lower volume, both in width and height. In fact, Free has an entire refrigerator less volume, much less than the numbers would indicate. It’s specified as a 102 mm last (verified by Skialper magazine Buyer Guide 2020), while the Pro is listed as either 103 or 103.5 (depending on your source, and measured as 103.5 by Skialper). Let’s be generous, and say the difference is a Godzilla sized 1.5 millimeters, or the width of 15 sheets of average printer paper (yes Virginia, I measured). Or more practically pictured as a boot fitting project: 4 layers of Gorilla tape.
As I’ve said before, much to the revilement of those who I’ll call “lasting fanatics,” any competent boot fitter can make 1.5 mm of extra width go away. With a caveat. “Smallifiying” a boot is much more easily done when you’re not dealing with scads of overall volume. In this case, the Pro is downright tumescent compared to the Free. Conclusions: You’re not going to easily create a roomy fit in the Free, and conversely, you’re making the Pro fit like the Free would be too much work for all but the most committed fit modders. Oh, and yes I did measure the outside width dimensions. Doing so was difficult, due to the decorative moldings on the sides of the scaffo. Best I could get was a difference of 3 millimeters. So lasting fanatics, you will get a lower volume boot with the Free.
Last width: Last size. Free (left) is noticeably lower volume, both in width and height. Yes, boys and girls, we’re talking LAST WIDTH, the subject of at least thirteen million opinions as to boot fitting and performance.
The difference in volume is obvious to the naked eye. Free on the left.
Twins? Not only are the shell toes differently shaped, but Free uses Dynafit’s Quick Step In binding fittings — for compatibility with non-tech binding toes such as Atomic/Salomon Shift. Pro uses Master Step fittings at the toe. Both boots use Master Step at the heel, as the fitting is fastened from the inside of the boot and much stronger than the “classic” style Dynafit heel fitting.
Both boots use Master Step tech fittings at the heel. Delightful.
More here about tech fittings. And here.
On to the less visible differences:
Differences in height as indicated by liners.
Height
The liners might illustrate the height difference best. Free is about a centimeter taller at the rear cuff, including a small riveted spoiler. My impression is the front of the shell cuff is higher as well, but I found that difficult to verify due to the different shape of the scaffos. The liners are markedly different. Free uses a Sidi branded liner that’s noticably denser, and has a velcro attached adjustable tongue. One could of course swap in a softer liner if the boot is too stiff. That’s a nice option to keep in mind. In any case, a slightly taller boot can feel surprisingly more powerful, that little centimeter translating to a significant percentage increase in leverage.
Hoji Free includes an additional cuff spoiler that’s said to increase forward lean to 17 degrees from the Hoji Pro 11 degrees. From my measurements, I think the increase is less but still different enough to yield a boot geometry that “feels more forward.” The spoiler can be removed, but doing so is not user friendly. It would require demolishing a pair of large steel rivets, then re-attaching the power strap. Note that some catalog text and online stores spec the forward lean out at “11/17,” thus making it appear to be adjustable. The Dynafit website, oddly enough, specs it out at 11 degrees in their list of specs, and calls it out at 17 degrees in the body copy, so clearly there is some flawed messaging going on somewhere with this. Adding to the confusion, both the Dynafit website and some etailers list the spoiler as a separate part. Perhaps they’re selling a North American version with the spoiler, and a European version without it? Or they’re selling it so you could install it on a Hoji Pro? The Dynafit website shows the Free _with_ the spoiler. Continued clarification will I hope be forthcoming. (I added this photo and caption after discussion in comments.)
Hoji Lock system is exactly the same on both boots, excepting the orange plastic component.
Overall flex/stiffness
Easy tactile evaluation reveals the Free to be obviously stiffer than the Pro. It appears to use stiffer and perhaps thicker plastic in the scaffo, and the cuff flexes stiffer as well. Where does the Free end up in Lou’s soon to be adopted industry wide flex rating system? “Frickin Stiff.”
Little things
– Free lacks the annoying tab on the end of the power strap, that catches when you totally unbuckle the strap. I’m wondering if Dynafit will change this with the Pro, we be watching.
– Free has sole lugs at the toe area that’ll interact correctly with the AFD of hybrid bindings such as Atomic/Salomon Shift. As the Pro won’t work in those bindings, no basis for comparison here.
– Neither boot has adjustable forward lean. (There is confusion about this, see comments, we will update if/when more information is verified.)
– The Free spoiler will in many cases yield a few degrees more forward lean (depending on the shape of your leg, liner molding, etc. It could be removed for the same 11 degree lean as the Pro, but doing so involves demolishing permanent and substantial steel rivets and re-attaching the power strap.
– Both boots sport thermo mold liners. We would expect nothing less.
Weight, size 28
Hoji Pro: one shell no liner is 1258 grams, liner 250 grams, total 1508 grams
Hoji Free: one shell no liner is 1336 grams, liner 366 grams, total 1702 grams
Conclusions
Boots such as the Hoji Free are heavy, and you’re not going to get the uphill mobility of a full-on dedicated “skimo heritage” touring shoe. But then, nobody is fooling themselves. If your ego can live with only three buckles, this is a “freeride” boot on par with anything else out there. And perhaps it comes out at the top due to the flex of the Hoji Lock.
Lastly, are they twins? Dizygotic, yes. And neither is a rough draft.
Shop for Hoji Boots at Cripple Creek
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32 comments
I thought the forward lean on the Free was adjustable between 11 and 17 degrees. Is that incorrect?
Wing nut, I skied my Frees for the first time today and Best I can figure out in looking at the spoiler/cuff and reading this article and viewing the 17 degree spoiler/cuff accessory online, I think that the stock version already has the 17 degree spoiler accessory installed. And the writer is correct, trying to remove it is major surgery requiring breaking 2 rivets that hold the spoiler and power strap in place. Skiing it today, it does seem to have more Fwd pitch than the pro or maestrale. I’d like more tho. Hope this helps
what sizes are available for the free, for the pro and will the free be unisex only or will there also be a womens models in an ugly color ?
I’m betting the free won’t go small enough for me and I wouldn’t touch the pro cuz of the shark nose
According to Skimo’s website the fFree does have an adjustable forward lean of 11/17 with spoiler
What about a comparison of the hoji free with the zero g pro tour? I’m very curious.
Well, Skimo is Skimo and I am me. All the websites quote that spec, I’m not sure what it really means, though I’m sure it does not mean the cuff angle is adjustable. Because it’s not. Unless you’re a boot customizer. The spoiler is riveted in, integrated with the power strap. Not a user adjustment. Now, perhaps the spoiler does jack your tibia farther forward than not having it, so the lean is more than 11 degrees, but that would depend on the shape of your leg, liner molding, etc. Nonetheless I would say the Free has more forward cuff angle than the Pro, due to the spoiler. Mainly, let’s not spread that it’s adjustable. Please correct me if I’m missing something. Lou
Wow, Lou! What cereal did you have for breakfast? Crocheties? The idea is that someone can comment and get clarity on details about the gear, not get snapped at by a short-tempered key smasher. If you’re past having patience with questions, why not sign over your remaining share and call it a night on Wild Snow.
P.S., I thought it obvious that the Free spoiler might yield more forward lean. I’ll make sure review mentions that. Lou
Hi Lou, perhaps the term is overloaded, but in this case Dynafit has an optional accessory called a Spoiler to increase the forward lean: https://skimo.co/dynafit-hoji-spoilers
Reach out to the extended community for ideation on ways to lighten up the Free (shell only). I am a gram counter and would love to find a spare 100grams to remove.
JBO, thanks. That’s helpful, though I would not call an optional spoiler that requires grinding out and replacing rivets “adjustable forward lean” any more than my constant and perhaps tiresome advocacy of boot fitting. We’ve been adding spoilers to boots for years, hundreds of times. In that sense, all boots have adjustable forward lean.
What I’m wondering now is if the accessory is actually the same thing that’s already in the boot? By my calculations it would have to be more than two centimeters thick to change the lean angle 6 degrees (the one that comes with the boot is about a centimeter thick), but I probably don’t calculate it the same way they do in Montebelluna. (I use a drawing on printer paper, two 11 inch rays of an angle, set to the angle, separation of the rays at 11 inches = approximately what the spoiler thickness would need to be.
The Dynafit website says the spoiler is “Coming Soon.” https://www.dynafit.com/equipment/accessories/hoji-free-spoiler Is that a mistake?
One other thing, for our readers: A thick spoiler jabbing in to your calf is not the same thing as a significant change in a ski boot’s cuff angle.
Lou
GMD, for starters you could remove the spoiler (smile). Lou
Do they really think someone in the market for a boot like this is that concerned about a few mm BSL? That toe piece looks like an answer to a question, that no one was asking.
And not in a “ why didn’t I think of that” sort of way.Reminds me of the bellows on the TLT 5s.
I’m getting more and more amused and confused. On the Dynafit website, for Free it says “In downhill mode, the Hoji Free locks out at a forward lean of 17 degrees thanks to a spoiler at the cuff…”
The optional spoiler looks an awful lot like the one already in the boot.
The Dynafit site says nothing about the lean being adjustable.
https://www.dynafit.com/en-us/hoji-free-08-0000061908
I eagerly await more information!
Lou, see my reply to “wingnut”. Based on my skiing it (for the first time today), looking at the spoiler that came installed with it out of the box, then reviewing the spoiler accessories online at skimo for $29.99 I have concluded that the 17 degree spoiler comes installed from the factory (for USA at least) and that dynafit has kinda screwed up their marketing messaging regarding the 11 and 17 degree spoiler adjustment. My conclusion is that the 17 degree spoiler is standard equipment and to remove it is brain surgery hacking off 2 big rivets. For more information see my reply to wingnut and merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah everyone.
Hoji answers the forward lean question in the video here: https://youtu.be/F6H8kjtITno?t=670. Supposedly the lean is 17 from the spoiler and position of the walk mode lever.
Thanks Kyle, confusion reigns, the Pro and Free I have here, measured carefully, appear to have exactly the same cuff angle (sans spoiler), with the Free spoiler the only thing adding lean.
I’ll try to get more information.
And by the way, if the spoiler is indeed sold as a seprate part, it obviously could be installed on the Pro (with some work).
It is not a snap-in, as half the power strap is anchored to one of the rivets that holds (or would hold) the spoiler.
In any case, all, I added a photo of the spoiler and some commentary.
Who would buy a pair of boots that is not compatible with step-in crampons? Who would buy a pair of boots that takes us straight back to the time of frame bindings? No thanks, Dynafit. Look at what your competitor Fischer is doing with their new Travers CC. Just tried them on the rock hard glacier – awesome boots! With that carbon cuff significantly stiffer than last years Travers Carbon.
Now I’m really confused. The Free isn’t compatible with step-in crampons?
No, the Free is compatible of course. Only the Pro is not. The Free has other major drawbacks though and makes me feel like going back to the time of Fritschi Diamir frame bindings.
I agree Lou, this is getting amusing! I verified our stock of Frees have the spoiler installed. The accessory is also compatible with the Pro Tour and PX boots, but not the PU.
The Free is exactly made for people like me. We need boots that don’t disintegrate upon impact from a front flip over a 30 foot cliff. We don’t care very much about crampons. I also need the toe so it fits in a Shift. I value downhill performance over uphill, or, to be precise, if the boot can’t compete with at least a 120 flex alpine boot, it’s not for me. So far any boot on the market that ticks that box lacks massively in the uphill department. I ski a Lange XT free 140, which is an ok boot for downhill, but as always heavy with little ROM. So I am very excited about the Hoji Free, if it still skis like an alpine, any improvement in the uphill department, no matter how small, is better than what we had before.
Lou, it would be helpful to do a post on the new bindings and boots like the Free.
Dynafit’s website is a little vague about what they would fit into (“Boot-binding system: Dynafit Quick-Step-In” or “Compatible with Tour frame bindings.”), no mention of DIN anywhere I can find (see here: https://www.dynafit.com/en-us/hoji-free-08-0000061908 ).
Powder has a handy guide from Atomic/Salomon (“An Explanation of Boot and Binding Compatibility” https://www.powder.com/stories/an-explanation-of-boot-and-binding-compatibility/ ) which of course doesn’t mention the Hoji Free. My GF is considering getting the Free ( boot is listed as Gender: Unisex ) but doesn’t have a current pin tech ski rig, so is trying to figure out what she can do as an interim solution. I’m guessing Free in Alpine binding won’t be a great option, but remounting a pair of skis that I need to be compatible with alpine with a Shift might be a possibility…
Any thoughts?
Tuck, the minute you publish something like that, it’s out of date or incomplete. Kudos to anyone who tries, and perhaps we will someday. Meanwhile… boots such as Free are not compatible with most alpine bindings, but they are compatible with hybrid touring bindings such as Shift. There also may be a few alpine (non touring) bindings that have the necessary adjustable AFD to accommodate a touring boot. If anyone remembers which those are, please chime in. I don’t deal with them much so don’t recall. The best resource in all this is retailers who specialize in touring gear. We have a huge, user generated list (re the comments). https://www.wildsnow.com/3921/top-best-ski-shops/
There are usually two main issues with using touring boots in “alpine like” bindings. 1) the sole rocker can make the toe of the boot too high. 2) the sole of the boot may have too much friction, or catch on the binding during safety release. The hybrid bindings have features to mitigate those problems. Another issue is the soft rubber of the sole may introduce extra and undesired give in the binding/boot system.
Lou
Thanks!
Apart from the whole cuff adjustment/forward lean thing, I am confused about the intended market for these two boots. I can see that it would make sense to integrate the innovative “Hoji lock” into the Dynafit boot range. I can also see that it would make sense to offer a lighter, more touring oriented option, and a heavier, more freeride oriented option. But these two boots are too similar in weight for that distinction to be clear. The plastic used in the shells, and the overall weight, would probably have to be far more different to identify each product. Then there is the speed nose…why? It creates big compatibility issues (bindings/crampons) for very small practical benefit. Then there is the last. Why two lasts, and how do they relate to each boot’s market? Which boot, the touring boot or the freeride boot, should get the wider/comfier fit, and which should get the narrower/alpine fit? For my money, what would make most sense is two boots with the Hoji lock, one lighter( 1350-1450 g) and one heavier (1550-1650 g) with different plastics and liners as appropriate. Both boots would have the same fit (perhaps a compromise between the two existing lasts) so that people don’t get confused. Both boots would get the regular nose, so that people can use real crampons if they want. My 2 cents.
Thanks Bruno. One thing, the Free is “different” plastic in that it’s noticeably stiffer to the hand as well as during carpet test. The Free plastic might be thicker in some areas as well. Lou
Has anyone tried the Hoji Free with a Fritsche Tecton 12? Does the fit feel right?
Been trying on both the Free and the Pro. Feels like much more forward lean then just the spoiler. This is confirmed by Hoji him self on video describing the evelution and final product.
Last widths verified by Skialper magazine Buyer Guide 2020
The “annoying” tab on the Hoji tour power strap is no problem if you use this trick: Just unbuckle , then loosen power strap all the way until the tab hits, then slip your foot out of the boot with the power strap still intact. Works for me. You can then just flip the strap out of the way to pull the liner out.
anyone try putting the sidas hoji free liners in a set of hoji pro tours? curious of the compatibility and possible upgrade liner for my pro tours