“Getting barreled with a knee down on a big pow day is ecstasy.” Photo: Evan Green
Backcountry telemark skiing is on life support. Here’s how to fix it.
By Nick Cherney
For years, the mainstream ski media has been declaring the death of telemark skiing. This tends to send a certain segment of our population into a long tirade matched only by vegan crossfitters when told they are endangering their health. Of course, even such counter (ski) cultural icons as WildSnow have largely written off telemark skiing; this is in fact only one of scant telemark specific articles to grace these hallowed pages for over a decade.
So, it may seem surprising that a dedicated tele skier such as myself, prone to Facebook rants, proselytizing, and pocket GORP, would argue that telemark skiing does indeed face a pending death, at least in the backcountry. Despite abandoning alpine gear 19 years ago, strenuously arguing that alpine turns on tele gear amounts to treason, mocking alpine training heels, and spending the last nine years coaching youth telemark programs, I secretly bought a full rando race set up last season.
In fairness, this was purely to try and avoid the pain of the Grand Traverse that only a telemark skier can truly understand, but it still triggered some deep seated shame. Jake Sakson, our local telemark muse here in the Roaring Fork Valley, adamantly argued on my favorite episode of every skier’s favorite podcast, Totally Deep, that AT gear is a sign of the decline of the human physique. While this is clearly an inarguable fact, I will try to explain below why backcountry telemarking is on life support, and what we can do to fix it.
From essential to borderline obsolete: a brief history
First, let us recall that the resurgence of telemark skiing in the 70’s and 80’s triggered the backcountry skiing renaissance we are all enjoying today. While touring on cross country skis was of course a lot of fun, if you wanted to make actual turns in the backcountry under your own power, you had to learn to telemark. I wasn’t there for the 70’s or 80’s, but even in 2000, when I wanted to start skiing in the backcountry, I had to start by learning the telemark turn. I did this every week at Tele Tuesdays, a free group lesson for Vail employees. I quickly realized what everyone who learns to properly execute a telemark turn learns: it is an objectively superior art form. It is also clearly inferior from the standpoint of practicality. But we did it anyway because we wanted to go into the backcountry, so we slogged on until we were proficient and by then there was no looking back.
In the intervening decades two things have happened. One: telemark gear has massively improved and modernized for attacking aggressive lines. This means we have skiers on modern tele gear putting down lines in big mountain competitions that would be unimaginable to most telemark skiers 20 years ago, and are on par with what is happening in alpine big mountain skiing. But that gear is heavy and stiff, perfect for a resort skier, and tortuous for a 9-mile approach on a hut trip.
Second: skimo has exploded, and with it, seemingly annual leaps in gear quality, stiffness, and weight. Having done the Grand Traverse (slowly) twice in telemark gear, I decided I would not go through that suffering again. Last year when I built the spreadsheets, I just couldn’t believe how much more efficient and light a modern skimo set up was. After a season of training and completing the race (slightly less slowly) in a full set up that weighed less than my telemark boots, I even kept my toenails. But, boy, the downhills sure were boring.
So, why will anyone put in the work to learn to telemark (thereby reach a higher plane of skiing consciousness) if the practical need in the backcountry is not only gone, but is actually a disadvantage? The fact is that people bow hunt, fly fish, ride single speed mountain bikes, and all sorts of things that are impractical, and maybe harder, because, well, humans innately love both beauty and challenge.
I firmly believe that most skiers, if not put off by the sanctimonious tones we telemark skiers love to adopt, will admit that there is something beautiful and dynamic in the turn that is appealing to those who love the mountains, and that they would probably love to try. If only it was easier. And so, most innovation in the last 20 years of telemark equipment has been about making it easier. Stiffer, more active, heavier duty bindings. Taller, stiffer boots, etc. I won’t digress into my views on whether this gear is conducive to making better telemark skiers, but it certainly shortens the learning curve, and makes skiing more fun in more varied terrain for a wider range of skiers.
Why hasn’t the gear progressed further, and why isn’t it lighter? To be blunt, it’s because we have a user problem. I love telemark skiers, but holy crap, we are cheap. I regularly see people skiing in 15-year-old boots, and 20-year-old bindings. This would be unimaginable for an alpine skier. Not only are these people suffering with ancient technology, but they are hindering the ability for the industry to justify real R&D on better equipment. Companies like 22 Designs, Meidjo, and Bishop are actively experimenting with new products, and overwhelmingly that effort is put into making telemarking easier in more varied conditions, which translates into stiffer, heavier equipment. And even with the absolutely clear improvement this equipment has delivered, we still hang on to our favorite pair of Chilis, with packed out liners in an ancient pair of T2s. This does not support progress, although it does I suppose help to keep the wire and duct tape industries booming.
But, I argue, today telemark skiing as a whole is far from dead, and is in fact finding a new generation of skiers. The single largest phenomenon in youth skiing today is the explosion of big mountain skiing occurring all over the country, particularly in the west. The International Freeskiers and Snowboarders Association (IFSA), first imagined by Shane McConkey, now sponsors over 70 youth big mountain competitions across the country, most of which sell out in minutes. Many ski programs have more big mountain athletes than alpine racers.
As the IFSA has grown, it has helped to fuel big mountain telemark programs in resorts across the west. Last season, there were at least six programs in Colorado alone. In Aspen, we have grown from zero to 20 athletes in just five seasons. The national youth big mountain telemark championships in Taos last season had over 60 skiers. These kids did not come to telemarking the way we did, they came because it looks rad to stomp a tele landing off a big cliff, and getting barreled with a knee down on a big pow day is ecstasy. So, I see a very solid future for aggressive big mountain/ resort tele skiing.
The next generation of telemark skiing devotees at a youth competition in Taos.
But how many of these kids will be willing to hold up their friends in the backcountry, in order to enjoy a better turn? For me, with the state of today’s gear, every backcountry trip now is a calculation of the uphill to downhill ratio. Day mission to ski some fun lines? Tele gear. Six-day hut trip, with a few turns when possible? AT. Does it have to be this way?
My personal fantasy, of course, is to be able to have as much fun going uphill on telemark gear as I do on the way down. I frankly find alpine turns relatively boring in comparison, but trudging in heavy boots and gear on long missions into the backcountry while my friends whip past in speed suits is a drag.
The future of telemark skiing
There are glimmers of hope to be found in three areas. 1. The explosion of backcountry skiing both casual and competitive can spill over to telemark. 2. The resurgence of resort telemarking driven by gear improvements and big mountain competitions is showing people that you can tele and not be a 60 year old hippy (though that’s cool too). And 3. The gear is starting to catch up. We have extremely burly resort bindings courtesy of companies like 22 Designs and Bishop. Then Rottefella brought us the NTN system, which say what you will, has helped convince a lot of tele skiers to abandon their supply of wire and duct tape and actually buy some new gear.
Finally, in the last few years, Meidjo and 22 Designs have rolled out the first legitimate tech toe binding for tele gear. Sure, they don’t compare to an AT race binding in terms of weight, but they are huge improvement over the resort standard, and are probably comparable to many people’s hybrid resort/backcountry AT bindings.
Where the whole system today completely fails, though, is in the boots. God bless Scarpa and the T2/T1 monopoly, but why on earth can’t we get a light tele boot that performs? Their first generation AT boots had bellows, just no duck butt (the corollary of the tele duck bill, which enables the NTN system to work). All it would take is putting a light (stiff) cuff and a duck butt on a light bellowed AT boot, and we could bring the transcendentalism of telemark back to its rightful home in the backcountry.
Sure, we will almost certainly never see skimo races won on telemark gear (though some nordic skiers have come close). But backcountry telemarking could experience the same resurgence we see on resorts today. We just have to do our part. Go do rad things on tele gear and demonstrate to younger skiers you don’t have to be in leather boots and picking crumbs out of your beard to put on tele skis. Support equipment companies and ski shops by upgrading your gear (can we compromise? At least every decade?). Demand light boots that can still drive a hard line. And remember, Michael cares.
Nick Cherney is the local televangist of Carbondale, Colorado and a coach of the Telemark Team of the Aspen Valley Ski and Snowboard Club. He can often be spotted in the nearby hills, surrounded by hoards of children wearing bellowed ski boots. His life goals consist of living long enough to see Scarpa develop a lightweight telemark boot and skiing down Highlands Bowl backwards in leather boots and three-pin bindings, just to prove it can be done.
Beyond our regular guest bloggers who have their own profiles, some of our one-timers end up being categorized under this generic profile. Once they do a few posts, we build a category. In any case, we sure appreciate ALL the WildSnow guest bloggers!
66 comments
one of these days I want to try Tele
There just isn’t a place that rents Tele Gear near here
How about a Telemark demo day or festival, where there is both gear and clinics to teach good skills!?
I ended up finding an almost new pair of used Tele skis on FB Marketplace for $100 and they already had tele bindings. There are a bunch of used pairs of tele boots on FB Marketplace as well – for cheap. But I went with a brand new pair I found on closeout for $60. I figure for $160 it’s worth it bc that’s probably what it would cost for 3-4 days of rentals. Good luck!
Ebay – you can outfit yourself with perfectly fine 90s gear for $200.
You are dead on regarding boots. It’s the driver that is holding everything back. A good friend of
mine is a Scarpa Rep and says the problem is that all boot companies are dealing with including Scarpa is they are not willing to invest money in the R&D time and in factory boot mold runs to give it a go. Making a boot mold for a run of boots is supposedly very expensive. Until this happens, we will be stuck in the same place we are right now- that the boots needs to catch up to the binding development.
I still got some gear
Tele is not dead
it just smells funny
I love the new direction of Wild Snow!! Always thought it was so weird for Lou to be so adamantly opposed to ever writing about tele. He would spew so much ink over a slight tweak in a 30 year old tech binding and never even mention some of the revolutionary tele bindings of the last few years. Thank you new Wild Snow for a more inclusive view at sliding on snow.
Thanks DJ! We’re working on it!
A blogger from Aspen named Lou,
Quite particular in choice of his shoe,
Would belittle and chide,
Those who’d chosen to ride,
A toe-piece with pins more than two,
‘Tis said that he once tried to ski,
On pins in the number of three,
But he never did feel,
Or experience the zeal,
Of turning while dropping the knee,
The skis of the day, though not wide,
Were sufficient for skinning and glide,
But he did not master that day,
The elegant turn from Norway,
And it seems to have damaged his pride,
Now he’s loosened control of his blog,
And new editors are clearing the fog,
Of the claptrap and tripe,
Towards the skiers who’d gripe
They’d been regarded much worse than a dog
The freeheel tribe’s mostly glad,
Though the heel-lockers possibly sad,
To see the site’s evolution,
And eventual inclusion,
Of a technique that is frankly quite rad
Apologies, the above post would be more readable with paragraph formatting enabled. The line-breaks in my submission were not included in the formatting.
Thanks for the encouragement to get out my old tele gear. The Waterville Valley ski resort in NH has introduced a Back Country program and is using the moniker “Uphillers” for the participants. I won’t get the same thrill as tele skiing in the steep and deep powder runs of the San Juan mtns in CO or the same in the Rockies of Alberta of 20 years ago but it will be nice to occasionally get a good workout skinning up the trail and then doing “bent knee” tele turns along with the downhill parallel ones back down.
Once I get comfortable with the terrain, I definitely will be looking for the opportunity to update my gear.
Zippy, what a masterpiece! Laughter is abounding at HQ 🙂
Zippy, you win!
I am so torn on this. My formative first 15 years of bc skiing was on tele, starting with ankle high leather, karhu double camber, 3 pin with heel v blocks; to double leather on 66mm Hagans and 1st gen Rivas; to plastic doubles on voile cable/3 pin.
I eventually moved to AT gear when tech bindings were fully mainstream and I realized I hadn’t dropped a heel on my free heel gear for 5+ years. Boy did learning to ski on lightweight gear make be a better skier and gave me a cheap entry point to getting out. Starting as a new skier now is crazy expensive compared to early tele even taking inflation into account.
I tried tele again a couple years ago for a few days and realized that my lightweightish AT setup is just so much better that I won’t ever go back (even for flat creek bed and meadow skipping!). That said, I have not tried the tele tech approach. The resort skiing angle while valid does not entice me. I am sad to see tele in the state it is.
Thank you for this very nice article. Yes, telemark is not dead and here in Europe we feel everywhere this interest for this art of skiing. Be careful. Testing is adopting it.
Be patient, without yet revealing the secrets your dreams will soon be fulfilled.
Pierre THE M Equipment – creator of MEIJDO
Thank you Pierre for developing a light, tour friendly, releasable (when I need it to) binding. I find the release factor to be a big deal, as I’m 77 years old and it takes a bit longer to heal if something goes sideways.
You made the Meidjo binding? Then I have you to thank for making my first telemark season so great! The lack of a really good releasable binding has been the thing keeping me from adopting telemark sooner. I hope the releasability (was a bit inconsistent) gets more reliable in future iterations. Thank you for doing what you do!
As with every other BC article, you omit nearly the entire world of BC: hardwoods hill country is probably 90% of the accessible BC terrain in the USA.
very few ppl live near mountains, statistically. so the world of hardwood BC is also where the potential is for tele and other BC.
i note that hardwoods snow also has no avalanche risk.
i live in mid-Michigan: around here after a friendly lil’ 8 inch dump on top of our 4 inch base a half dozen of us will play hooky for a morning and ski out on our modest tele gear, striding an easy mile to a few ridges that we’ve tidied up, then we’ll shred 100-yard lines around a lil’ bowl for a couple hours, following the shade. we dont use skins. we have fishscales on our 90-100mm wide skis and we just stride’n’glide up our uptracks in a few minutes. we bring a big thermos jug of chili and plant a few beers here’n’there. then we go back to work after lunch. after a couple days it’s skied-up and heavy so that means the trails are skied-in and gliding good and we’re back to striding until we get another lil’ dump.
each ridgeline can support maybe 10 skiers. so every county could have, say, a couple hundred fun-hogs. spread them out over the whole of the low elevation hardwoods snow country and there’s your base for a national tele scene — as well as for your national striding and just plain casual winter outdoor fun.
the mountains are a special treat — occasional, and for a few, relatively. we can’t make a national impact by focusing on the fun at high elevation.
yeah, climate change, but we adapt and keep skiing. we just ski on less snow. we know all about our northern slopes and how forests hold the snow. and we catch every dump the morning it hits. we still get a half dozen sweet powder outings nearby and 50-100 trail outings. we also drive to ski, both to the BC and to resorts, for another dozen outings a season — all that is easily done on our same gear or something beefier if we prefer. but i think the future of a base depends on local fun. …and modest, stridable gear. …and on the hardwoods.
I broke a 28-year streak of unlocked heels this past February when I switched to an AT setup for the backcountry. The lightweight gear made all the difference, sad that the boots aren’t keeping up. Been on NTN for the past six years but that gear is so heavy it’s only good for the lifts. If Michael really cared, he would reach out from the grave and drop some cash on the boot manufacturers to develop modern lightweight NTN boots. Then we’d all be moonwalking.
Here in Scotland there is small a hardcore still on tele gear. Many from the Nordic ski background, many now moved on to modern equipment. One thing we do see is excellent Tele skiers appearing on the pistes, Alpine skiers who are after a new challenge and have seen the light. With our relatively smaller mountains, the heavier kit does not impede, fitness is more a factor.
As you say, boots are the sticking point. I now have Scarpa TX Pro and a rare pair of F1 for lighter tours and Skimo races. Shame Scarpa don’t dig out the old F1 moulds and update them, it would be a good start.
Telemark Bindings:
OMG Telemark Tech = 905 g / pair
Meidjo = 840 g / pair
Lynx = 1000 g / pair
Non-“race” AT bindings:
G3 Zed = 690 g / pair
G3 Ion = 1170 g / pair
Fritschi Vipec = 1150 g / pair
Dynafit TLT Speed Radical = 730 g / pair
Not much difference in weight between the pin-based telemark bindings and popular AT bindings. All use the same toe pin system so no difference in touring performance other than weight. There are race bindings on the market that are considerably lighter but generally lack important features such as release value adjustment and multiple height heel lifters.
Telemark boots:
Scarpa Tx Pro = 1750 g / boot and 22° range of motion
Scott Voodoo NTN = 1823 g / boot and 46° ROM
Crispi Shiver NTN = 1610 g / boot
AT boots:
Scarpa Maestrale XT = 1490 g / boot and 56° ROM
Scarpa F1 = 1260 g / boot and 62° ROM
Scott Cosmos III = 1425 g / boot and 60° ROM
Scott Orbit = 1245 g / boot and 60° ROM
Huge differences in both weight and ROM here. There is enormous room for improvement here. No new telemark boots have come to market (other than small cosmetic updates) in over a decade, while the AT boots have gotten lighter and improved walk mechanisms every year. Part of this is due to the high cost of making boot molds, but creative skiers have for example fitted Maestrale cuffs onto Tx Pro lowers to get a lighter boot with better ROM. Scarpa could sell such a “frankenboot” with very little investment (just change the plastic colors so the cuff and lower shells match), but does not. I’m sure they would if they thought skiers would buy it.
If you quit tele because alpine gear is better for touring you were doing it wrong.
Absolutely agree! Having a free heel for touring is so sweet. I switched to free-heel sking (tele and alpine turns) 20 plus years ago. I love primitive gear and the nordic tradition. Check out Asnes skis and Telemark Talk forum. Old school/new school gear-it is all good with a free-heel. Alpine touring equipment is also great. The goal is to be in the backcountry, so do what works for you! I don’t get the controversy about gear choice.
Nick,
If you recall I already skied highlands bowl (ozone) switch with leather boots and three pin bindings! I totally think you should go for it though.
uh, yes Jake, I do recall. and I still am very uncertain if I will ever achieve it…
While I am bragging I also have had the joy of passing rando racers on the Grand Traverse with the same exact setup! You are the man for building such an incredible tele program! I think Orion and Canyon are about as good of skiers as I was when I was 17….! If not better!
Excellent work, Nick! I agree with all of it, especially your point about how alpine turns on all but the gnarliest terrain can be boring to a lifelong tele skier (while also fully acknowledging the fact that AT gear is the superior tool for certain terrain/objectives). I do a lot of my training inbounds on homemade, skimo-weight tele gear, and I’ve had friends who ditched telemark for AT joke that they need the downhill to check their work email while I’m having fun making tele turns. Kidding aside, I think this actually is a potential growth avenue for telemark; as resort “fitness skinning” becomes more popular, it’s a way to milk every bit of fun out of your effort.
Of course there is that big hangup you mention: the weight of the gear. I think in the late 90s/early 00s when we were saying “I wish these bindings were step-in, I wish they released,” we didn’t fully realize what monsters they would become — in terms of weight, complexity, and of course cost. The implementation of the tech toe has certainly helped things, but needing to attach at the duckbutt necessitates a level of complexity far greater than the $2 plastic heel throw of days past. I enjoy a day of NTN chairlift riding as much as anyone, but if I’m earning turns, it’s on old Scarpa F1’s and bindings that attach at the real heel. It’s lighter, simpler, and, with tech toes, still edges pretty well.
That kinda sums up the mess that bootmakers are hesitant to wade into. We want skimo weight, but are we willing to give up NTN-level edging/control/convenience? Lightweight AT boots wear out quickly as is; now put flexing every turn into the equation. Will dirtbag tele skiers who’ve been on the same T1’s for a decade plunk down to replace their boots every 2 years? Tech-toe tele is certainly here to stay. The Lynx & Meidjo bindings are great, but can their weight & reliability be brought closer in line with, say, a Dynafit Superlight?
Telemark isn’t dead, it’s more in that awkward age where it’s laying low, trying to figure out what it wants to be when it grows up.
Your last sentence nails it Bobby.
You describe both wanting a light telemark boot, and telling everyone they should buy new gear – then complain about how heavy it is. Perhaps that is why I’m still skiing 1st generation 3-buckle T-races with very thin aftermarket liners – I can’t find a lighter more comfortable boot. I have other pairs of 4-buckle T-races in the closet, but they don’t get skied anymore – too heavy. AT gear became better when they figured out that lighter and stiffer is better, right now telemark manufacturers are behind in that curve in that they have gone stiffer (to attract more alpine crossover, and make the tele turn easier), but have added weight to every component alienating those who want to tour longer distances on telemark gear – and still be able to get down technical lines.
Check your history please.
The Telemark turn was never meant to be the sole dominant turn for touring free heel skis. It was one of many other turns and techniques.
Lightweight camber and double camber touring skis are wonderful for rolling tours and that is exactly where the telemark turn sweet spot is.
Duck bill boots can be awkward.
I’ve definitely been known to be weird — any creative who doesn’t get that moniker once in a while should pack up and go home (smile). I had many reasons for my editorial focus with WildSnow (snowboard and AT), and sure, good to see more of everything so long as it keeps the site viable! The world of ski touring voted with its feet many years ago, and I happened to align with that, and it was a wonderful ride. If the pendulum swings back, then fine, or if we do nothing more than get some televangelism going here, I’m glad to see it as the gear indeed has evolved greatly. And I’m guilty as charged re the gear focus, though as I’ve said a thousand times before, IMHO ski touring is about the mountain you ski on, not the type of turn you make. Or better, what Bardini said: “It’s a turn, not a religion.” Lou
I did call Wild Snow a “counter (ski) cultural icon”, so that has to count for something Lou! I think the point of the article, is that in fact, backcountry has become synonymous with AT, so your editorial direction was indeed following the evolution of the sport.
Hello Lou,
Your comment that “The world of ski touring voted with its feet..” is, frankly, ingenuous.
Firstly, no one ever said that Tele was ever more popular that AT, nor was that ever part of anyone’s choice to utilize the gear. AT is obviously a more natural progression from alpine resort skiing to backcountry touring for most people.
Telemarking is hard and that has always been part of its appeal.
Just like how many people enjoy the challenge of a single-speed mountain bike, even though some think it’s dumb.
The fact that chocolate ice cream is more popular than rum-raisin or (insert your favorite off-beat flavor here) does not de-legitemize the less popular flavors. More flavors == good thing! Especially if you enjoy a less popular flavor.
Secondly, many (though not all) people who switch(ed) from Tele to AT do (did) so due to the weight disparity. Many of those switchers would have stuck with Tele if not for the weight penalty. To say they “voted” for AT over Tele is inaccurate. The “issue” they were “voting” on was weight, not technique.
As a “voter”, my number one “issue,” like many others who Tele, is technique. Yes, I suffer the weight penalty, but I have more fun making turns on Tele gear. Even when I don’t lift my heel.
Another category of switchers were never jazzed on Tele to begin with. They (like, I think, you did) got into backcountry skiing and did it on Tele gear because that is what was available at the time, not because of a particular appreciation of the discipline of Telemark skiing. When decent AT gear became available it was inevitable and natural that they would switch even though, at the time, they suffered a weight penalty (early AT gear having been heavier than Tele). For this group, it’s all good that they did. They were happy to have gear that better supported their preferred turning style. Happy skiers == good thing!
Thirdly, it seems that Tele is fairly popular at smaller resorts compared to the biggies. When people have skied everything on their home hill (forward, backward, blindfolded, and with one leg tied behind their back) and want a new challenge, a fair number of them turn to Tele (convenient, unintentional pun).
You’ve mentioned, on this site in the past, that you’d tried Tele skiing back in the day, and that you didn’t catch on.
Null Hypothesis: You didn’t get it and that hurt your pride, coloring your attitude towards Telemark skiing and those who enjoy it.
Lou, I’d like to sincerely thank you for this site. Over the years I have mostly enjoyed it tremendously. I think the first thing I read here was an essay you wrote about teaching Louie to ski. It was touching. Although I somewhat miss the overall tone of WS since you passed the baton here on the site, I will certainly not miss your derision and exclusion of all things Telemark.
To Nick and the new editorial team, thank you for this article and the breath of fresh air.
Tele-ho…. -Zippy
They’re coming. I’ve skied one. Still needs work but the most important thing is developing demand. Adopt a tele skier today and save the turn for the future. Seriously – that’s what it will take. Not innovation. Demand. The field of dreams days are what is dead (build it and they will come), not the tele turn. If the demand is high enough, Scarpa will make it. If Scarpa makes it, Crispi will follow. And in my dreams, La Sportiva will embrace the bellows. 😉
The demand will never be huge, but it is there… The questions are how much demand does Scarpa need and how to demonstrate the demand? Why would people buy new boots if there haven’t been ANY updates in design for 7-8 years (NTN)? Eventually, you finally destroy your boots and have to, but otherwise, people just keep buying new liners and cobbling them together – waiting for a new, better boot for touring. I’d be first in line to buy a modern, lightish, tour-oriented tech/NTN boot. I know a lot of other people who would be lining up too. Until then, I keep finding old pairs of the original Scarpa F1 AT boot; with those and a TTS binding, my tele setup is lighter than the majority of AT tourers. I just dream of a better-skiing boot that still tours well.
“They’re coming. I’ve skied one.” Craig, you old tease. Are you saying you’ve skied a prototype of the boot we’re all gasping for on Earn Your Turns? 🙂
I’m surprised I missed this story on WildSnow last fall. There are some great replies in here.
I ski telemark and alpine gear. For telemark, my go to for touring is a T3 paired with a voile 3 pin binding on light voile fish scales- my most memorable days this season were on this setup. I have a pretty new pair of T1’s that I bought last fall, but after touring in boots like the Maestrale its pretty hard to justify the weight and limited ROM, despite years of b/c skiing in T races. They are fine for in bounds of course, they should be as that’s what they are intended for.
I would love to see a new crop of B/C tele boots that can compete with the alpine boots out there. I’d be happy with weight and ROM in the ball park of the Maestrale or better yet the F1. The only reason my wife, I and numerous others I have spoke with picked up A/T gear is because its lighter and less restrictive. The A/T gear has also become our go to when exploring new terrain or seeking more consequential terrain due to release.
In my opinion the only telemark setups which can currently compete day in and day out with popular BC alpine setups are those which use a light boot like a T3/T4 (or better yet leather boots if your lucky enough to have a pair) and a 3 pin binding to drive your touring ski of choice. A setup like this is the closest I have been able to come to matching the weight and comfort of my A/T setup. My A/T setup is far more capable for the down.
TLDR – I would buy a new “tech tele” boot if it can compete with the performance of A/T boots.
If it doesn’t happen I’ll gladly keep skiing my T3/T4 class boots and voile 3 pin mountaineer and 3 pin cable bindings.
The reviews on Wildsnow were also instrumental in helping me choose my A/T setup…Thanks!
Well said. My tele gear sat unused for 6 years- I pulled it out last winter for in-bounds skiing and wow- so much more fun! I’m not going to bother alpine skiing in-bounds anymore. However, I’m unlikely to tour on tele’s until lighter boots are available, so that puts me in a bind that manufacturers are unlikely to make them until there’s demand…
I needed to upgrade my old tele setup at the end of last season and ended up replacing it with essentially the same thing: 7tms and heavy Scarpa T2 Eco boots. I would have happily paid more for lighter equipment, but couldn’t bring myself to getting an AT setup. Maybe for my next upgrade. Are there any online resources/forums that discuss these kinds of advances in tele gear?
Frank,
re: online resources. EarnYourTurns.com, TelemarkSkier.com, and for forums: BackcountryTalk.com that has a lot (read: maybe 10) very, very zealous tele tweakers showing off their garage contraptions for tele on regular basis. You need to be a tele nerd to appreciate it. But it is out there and it is NOT on Fakebook. Props to Lou for stickin’ to his guns too.
Twenty five comments already? It’s like a zombie convention over here.
I only lift ski on free heel equipment, so so so much more fun. Backcountry, I am 50/50 tele and AT, but will be 100% tele as soon as those new boots appear…
22 Designs has outlasted most of the tele binding brands in the US (although the M binding has been gaining some ground). Last year I waited until February to get a pair of the Lynx bindings that always seemed to be 1 month out on shipping. This year they are already a month late on getting any bindings to their dealers. I hope they figure it out, or someone else steps up and finds away to scale binding manufacturing in this country.
I ski F3s with TTS and a pair of vectors and my setup is lighter than most of my friends’ AT gear. Plus I get made fun of by all the bros who back seat turn on their AT setups. It’s a blast!
Seriously though, getting pitted on tele gear is where it’s at. I’ll never stop- I can’t imagine just tuning out and Alpine turning all day.
I have to disagree with the premise of the demise of telemark for the BC. There are very light tele/ BC ski boots in the form of Garmont, now SCOTT Excursion or Scarpa T4., along with light but fully adequate bindings from http://www.voileusa.com among others. Skis from http://www.altaiskis.com and others are light and are available with climbing pattern built in (“no-wax”/ “fishscale”), that still take climbing skins and have the ability to handle all terrain and powder with the best responsiveness. I am doubtful that this basic gear will easily be replaceable, and remain hopefull that a demand for it will continue/grow and its availibility will not be lost, maybe even a come-back for the good ole’ Riva/Chili/Cobra cable bindings! I admit I would like to find a way to loose the duckbill boot, but I have nothing but joy from skiing my ultra comfortable and fully supportive Excursion BC Ski boots. See my FB page under: Raisin’Heel Backcountry and Telemark Equipment
Jeff Potter’s comment points to the paradox of BC ski marketing – the content is largely driven by optics of risky, big-mountain skiing, while avalanche education programs spend a considerable amount of resources trying to educate us about the dangers of seeking out such lines. I agree with Jeff that there is much larger, and far more underserved market of recreational skiers who are content with mellow lines, and an evolved set of tele gear with fish scale skis has the potential to bring the pleasure of exploring the winter woods to much larger market than those who have easy access to big-mountain style skiing. Evolved tele gear could capitalize on a rapidity of change-over. I love the fact that with my BD 02 bindings, I can simply flick the switch with my ski pole, strip skins, and be headed downhill quicker than I can with AT setup.
I spent 30 years skiing 100% tele at both lifts and backcountry, then went AT last year to save weight. I’m not expecting tele will ever match AT for light weight. Partly due to lack of market. But also because it is a more difficult mechanical problem. Locking the AT boot down is simpler than allowing massive flex while powering hard turns. Any professional boot designers out there who can confirm our refute my theory?
Tele is less efficient for uphill also. That’s why you never see tele boots in uphill races anymore. The flex loses energy. And that adds up very quickly.
Tele is cross country skiing gone wrong. Tele with a lightweight touring setup is pure bliss. Tele with Red Scarpa 4 buckle race boots is just plain silly. (I was that guy also..)
I completely agree!
I met a guy last year who had bought a pair of TX (2nd generation) tele boots, and loved them so much he bought two more pairs before they stopped making them. Vastly superior to the TXPro, he said (he had a pair of those as well). This is pretty much why I haven’t gotten NTN / Meidjo equipment — can’t buy the TX anymore.
Scarpa keeps saying they’re working on it, but .. when?
Bardini was wrong! It *is* a religion, but a benign one. I worshipped at the telemark temple for thirty years and more. Telemark turns in soft snow are indeed fun and elegant, but you pay a price in mechanical efficiency both uphill and down and of course in weight.
.
I took up the telemark for several reasons: First, it was a family tradition, the turn my father and uncles first learned from an Italian skier passing through Colorado in the thirties. Before that they had no turns at all. They just fell. Second, when I started trying to ski the backcountry with serious descents, tele gear was much lighter than alpine touring gear. Third, I had a bit of a hippy background. Tele was hip.
.
But, five or six years ago the situation had clearly changed. My current AT gear weighs about seven pounds less than my best performing tele gear, and I became at least twice the skier that I was. I need all the help I can get. It took all of a day to discover that bouncing down a mountain on AT gear was equal fun. Not going back. I want to be skiing the backcountry in my eighties.
.
Postscript: My present AT skis (96mm waist) and bindings weigh the same as my old skinny Bonna 2000s with Rottefella 3-pins from long ago. Atomic BCL boots, 1100g.
I much prefer my switch back bindings to stiff 22dedign bindingss. I definitely switch to AT if I wanted stiff bindings.
Stiff, heavy boots and bindings definitely don’t match the interests of many telemarkers, even defeat the point of the sport. So far commrcial NTN offerings have been tilted far to the stiff and heavy end of things; NTN is killing telemarking as a sport.
Agree with Julie above. Switchbacks are at the upper limit of stiffness, as are T2 boots. Anything stiffer, And Alpine just makes more sense.
So is there a market for my well used 28.5 F3s in a second life as tech tele? Here I thought they were worthless…!
I will pry a pair of F3s from anybody’s cold dead hands if they are a 28. 😉 And I am trying to cannibalize a pair of Rush cuffs to move to my TX-Pros but I keep stripping the screw heads and have not got them all the way off yet. Ah the perils of telemarking.
Great article! I was a long-time tele-skier…like you, alpine turns on tele gear was considered blasphemous. BUt as I approchaed my mid-50’s my knees would creek and I found it harder and harder to stay in tough-enough shape to climb 1500m and then tele all the way down (including the classic PNW end-of-the-day tree slalom by headlamp to the car). My quads were screaming, but I was worried about my ability to control my turns so late in the day. So 3 years ago, I switched to alpine gear. And loved it. Of course, I would tell anyone who would listen that I was really a tele skier and this alpine thing was just a phase…until the day my alpine set-up went in for repair and I donned my old tele set up (yes….you are right…tele skiers are cheap). That’s when I realized how uncomfortable and inefficient those duck-bills are for touring. Never again….maybe.
So now my 22 year old daughter wants to learn how to tele… next generation is ready to go!
Yes, it seems that most of the most recent innovation in tele gear was to dumb it down so that the less skilled could join in. Huge boots, over-active step-in bindings … it is no wonder that many who rode that wave have fled for lightweight AT gear. So long as someone keeps making a 3-buckle boot with a Vibram sole and Voile keeps producing the Switchback, all is well. Though I’ll admit that the pull of the AT dark side will become strong should I ever get to check off one more ski descent 🙂
For me telemarking is swing dancing meeting snowboarding. I’ve updated to meidijos and they are incredible.
Zippy, I think I’ve now reached the apex of my career as a blogger, to be included in an epic poem! I’m adding that to my resume! (smile)
I’ve tried T2s and hated them because for me they were just too stiff flexing and with no feel; Excursions & T4s just feel better. If you’re going to have a really stiff boot then IMHO you may as well lock the heel and call it done.
Still, teles can be fun, but at present we’ve got low powered boots or very heavy monsters. It would be great if something like a TLT5P tele equivalent existed, with good lateral stiffness, excellent ROM for touring but with the addition of lots more flex at the ball of the foot. It’s not just weight that’s the killer but miserable touring efficiency with overly restrictive boots.
Maybe someday there might be a decent, light modern tele boot, but I won’t be holding my breath… 🙁
Psst…. they already do exist, in garages and used gear shops all across ski country USA: the yellow old Scarpa F1, with bellows. Paired with a Telemark Tech System binding, you’ll get lightweight + ROM for days. Do they tour as well as a skimo/AT setup? My PR in them for our local 2100′ skinning route is 36:18. Do they downhill like a 4-buckle NTN setup? Of course not, but well enough that — once you get dialed in — the skis themselves become more of a limiting factor for where/how you ski.
A little late to comment here, but as a 35-year telemarker- This article is SPOT ON! The comparison to Bowhunting, flyfishing, single-speed mountain biking is one I have made myself many a time, except substitute “muzzleloader hunting with a flintlock, Fly fishing with a Tenkara Rod, and riding a single-speed fat bike” and you’ve described some of my other hobbies. That said, I’ll ski about anything with tele gear and not feel the slightest disadvantage. In fact, freeing the heel gives me options. I’ll switch between p-turns and t-turns depending on the situation, it’s a bag of tricks. Can’t do that on AT gear. This year I finally made the jump to a 22D Lynx, Scarpa TX Pro and Voile V8 set-up and am absolutely blown away by the increase in performance and decrease in weight! Should have done it years ago, worth every penny… Long live Tele!
For the devout tele skier it’s not all about the efficiency aspect. If it was then why would you make a turn that requires so much more physical energy to genuflect while you ski? I’ve been skiing tele since the late 80’s and I had a long stretch when it was all tele all the time. It was better gear to access the BC in the early days and the turn was cool and fun. As I got older and focused more on efficiency I realized that I don’t need to make tele turns all the time. The tele turn is just one turn in the quiver of turns. I’m a bit of a gear nerd and I beta tested TTS when Mark Lengel brought it about. And I’m still tinkering with like my 15th generation version of TTS and my modded 10 YO, OG F1’s my lightest TTS with F1’s V6 BC and skins weigh a little over 7 lbs. per foot. I’ll put them up against any 100mm wide BC ski set up for efficiency of touring considering all aspects including transitions, contouring, striding and skiing downhill. Yes I have Meidjo’s TX Pros, Evo WC, Outlaw X, Lynx as well as OG Garmont Excursions, plus three pair of Merrell Doubles. and three pins they all get skied.
Boots are now the linchpin to the progression of the telemark future. We know what we need in a tele boot to match up to the TTN bindings like Meidjo and Lynx. If only someone could get a guy like Bill Gates to subsidize the telemark boot manufacturing process to help keep it alive. We tele skiers could make it last another 20 or so years with the right boot component.
Sorry I’m so late here but great blog post Nick! Thank you for storing this pot!!
Wow, sorry about the crappy job formatting, spelling and punctuation above. Stupid phone! Also Lou’s been great in tolerating my tele-tainted posts over the years.
For some perspective, I’m not a Luddite just because I ski tele gear. I did jump on the AT bandwagon back 15 years ago when I bought some Dynafit TLT’s and boots to join a group hut trip in the Swiss Alps. If it was just about efficiency and weight I’d ski one of my Tech AT rigs at around 6 lbs per foot with skins included. No rando race stuff here 88 UF is my skinniest.
I may be old and slow now but at least I can still scare myself, skiing a serious line on tele skis. Carry on!
Yeah, I am one of those guys on packed out T2s and 208 Rossis. But this year I was finally going to bite the bullet and buy new stuff. The thought of a step in binding at the age of 61 was tempting. Bought some ntn bindings, looked at new skis and then discovered that it is well nigh impossible to find NTN boots in the size 31 mondo that my feet are. Scotts don’t fit right and Scarpa doesn’t even bother. I talked to their rep and he gave me the same line about the molds being expensive. Well, no kidding! But no one is ever going to buy them if you don’t make them.
If North American and European teleheads are standing in line for a lightweight, flexible boot then please leave some space to include a few hundred Aussies (including me) and Kiwis.
I’ve tele’d and Skied XC/BC for 35 years down under using 75mm leather then plastic boots on a wide range of bindings. Last year year I ‘bit the bullet’ and bought TX Pro and Outlaw X, mounting on a nice Rustler 9 as my resort set up. It’s a great set on piste but I’ve struggled while climbing a few hundred metres in the BC – especially when on slow G3 Nylon skins. It’s better on kickers on mellower Aussie terrain.
But the whole set up is nearly 10 kg (mondo 30 boots; 188 cm skis @ 94mm waist). And the TX Pros feel much taller and less flexible than my SynerG of similar weight. TX Pros have their place inbounds and short side country jaunts but to me (with heavy ski, bindings and skins) unnecessarily sap one’s energy – especially on more undulating terrain – like much of Aussie hills! And on 53 year-old creaky knees!
So for I’ve gone lighter for my latest (main) touring set up. Lighter Voile UltraVector BC (hyper not recommended for tele!), Garmont Excursions, minimal skin use(?) but admittedly heavy, bomber Axl binding.
It’s a shame there’s no boot suitable for this task. I’d have loved to have bought a Lynx or better, a Meidjo but alas the ‘magic boot’ doesn’t not exist – yet! So I wait in anticipation, like thousands of others worldwide for the next tele revolution!
With skiable snow arriving soon, I look forward to assessing the performance the new skis and bindings on trusty old 75mm boots. I think I better hold on to them (Excursions and SynerG) for quite a while!
Comments are closed.