The Great Fritschi Change of 2018-19
Note: Due to my using several sets of bindings for the photos below, I got some of the “new vs old” confused in the photo captions. Should be fixed now. Apologies. Lou
This post sponsored by our publishing partner Cripple Creek Backcountry. Let them explain the arcane differences between various Fritschi options.
The new Fritschi toe bumper (front) will yield better touring range of motion with most boots. More, it’s less likely to dent your plastic.
Okay wunderkinder, it began with rumors, now the metamorphosed Tecton/Evo are in our scarred, sun burned paws. The change is subtle, a re-shaped toe “bumper” that nicely flattens when you shift the toe to tour uphill mode. Results: Less chance of your boot being dented during a forward “knee fall,” and more range of touring stride motion. The original version binding will be available as well, as it functions adequately with some boots — dealers can show you the difference. If in doubt, buy the new version. The two varietals will boast different SKU numbers, thanks Fritschi for that nice Swiss touch, instead of doing in-line changes and calling them exactly the same name and model number (as certain other companies are prone to foist on our poor overloaded ski touring brains).
New version to left, note how the bumper is wider and flatter as well.
This photo makes it easier to spot the difference in toe bumpers. New on left.
The new version, LEFT, appears to have additional space between boot toe and binding.
If your toe does bump, force is distributed, less possibility of boot damage due to the boot toe bumping the binding, as shown here with the OLDER VERSION BINDING.
NEW style, for reference.
About the Hoji boot: Most boots we tested achieved close to 90-degrees range of motion, which is adequate for touring (though we prefer more). Hoji Pro range of motion, however, is in my opinion compromised (as shown in photo) due to the Speed Nose and location of tech fittings. I’d thus not recommend the Hoji Pro for use with Tecton or Evo, though you could do so if you didn’t mind the lack of stride (perhaps you’re rigging for mostly downhill skiing, with occasional short tours.) See our previous blog post about Hoji Pro with Fritschi.
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Comments
39 Responses to “The Great Fritschi Change of 2018-19”
Just curious…does anyone using dynafit boots…find the benefits of the Speed Nose, whatever they maybe, to outweigh the incompatibility with crampons and certain bindings?
and….having bought Tectons last year….glad to see they are one of the rare bindings to sort of/kind of pass the “first year debacle” test. While I never noticed a lack of range in stride I just popped my boot in there and sure enough it has just under a hair of 90 degree ROM. Seems like the toe bumper could easily be ground down a bit to quickly increase that range. Is that a L.D. approved mod?
Good question Darin…. I was wondering the same thing. Maybe a better question would be can the new bumper be retrofitted into the first gen EVO and TECTON? Looks like pins and such would need to be pushed out, but I’m always game to mess with my bindings.
In reply to Darin… I’ve got the TLT7s with the speed nose and don’t notice an appreciable difference while skinning. I otherwise like the boot but would prefer the traditional lip at the front of the boot. Crampon use is my main reason for this.
Darin – for sure you can grind down the bumper. I did that for the previous years version and it worked fine.
FWIW this is my fourth season on the 2nd generation Vipec’s and they are still going strong – glad to see Fritschi is continuing to improve them! The newer model will be on my future skis for sure. They handle resort moguls and backcountry no problemo!
Thanks for your take Mike. Indeed, those 2nd gen Vipec’s when paired with a good boot and properly used/adjusted, are entirely functional. Lou
Just got my 2018-2019 Tectons mounted to older gen maestrale RS at a big store with three letters. They failed bindings because the wings were not opening all the way. I confirmed this with DIN at 5 the wings will not open when bench testing pushing boot to the outside. It opens *usually* however when pushing to the inside. The wings open easily when the heel is not in the heel piece. I am not seeing anything on the boot that is blocking release I don’t think. I am wondering since everything works beautifully when the heel is not in the heel piece, do I just need less forward pressure, ie lengthen the binding? How should I set this? Apologies if you already posted some info on this.
Hey Collin,
What type of boots do you have? The Fritschi toe pin(s) are adjustable because the toe sockets on the boots are not all the same dimension. If the adjustable pin is not adjusted correctly the toe will not release properly/as designed. You may want to check this Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXDwwNZBjA) out and then adjust the pin accordingly. Lou has some good info on the site about proper procedure for adjustment of the pins.
Cheers,
Ryan
Hey Ryan,
I have Maestrale RS from 2013 (quick step fittings). I’ve seen that video before and everything checks out (they even use a Maestrale in the video). There is no indication of a problem other than when testing on a bench and smacking the boot with my palm (DIN of 5), the toe pops over and the wing partially opens but then requires another slap to fully open the wing. However, the force is pretty light and for example I can open up fully with a moderate amount of force with just my fingers. But even before the install the tech told me “these test terribly, the binding only partially opens, maybe that means you have actually released, but we have to fail the binding if this happens.” I want to play around a bit more with the forward pressure and I also have some Tecnica Zero Tour boots coming today and I can see if they release any differently.
Cool… Sounds internal to me. I’ve taken a few Vipec toes apart from different generations. Fairly simple mechanism to perform complicated tasks/movements. If the machining of the metal parts were off or there is a burr it could cause some stickage. Same for if the plastic molding has a burr or nub in the wrong place.
I just walked out to my shop and did a release check on my toes. They do the double stick in the toe wing release too (all 3 sets) if I just try to push the boot through the release, but if I strike the side of the boot with the palm of my hand it drives through the motion and the wing fully folds down.
Sounds like you know your boots and bindings…. Play with it, but if you have bindings that are not releasing check in with BD, they are great at getting back with a solid answer and helping you suss through the issues with the Fritschis…
Good luck….
I’ve not seen any trouble with Dynafit Quick Step in Tecton or Shift. In the case of Shift, when you test, carefully observe when the tech Quick Step fitting (on a 9523 norm boot) might encounter the binding wings. The moment the release cycle begins, neither fitting is in contact with the wings, and never is again. Thus, if you’re getting some sort of “catching” or “double action,” look to other factors. What you are seeing in that case is the normal sometimes compromised performance of an alpine ski binding. They’re imperfect, contrary to the seemingly worshipful opinions about the Shift. Likewise, with Tecton, you are just seeing the normal mechanics of the binding and it is in my opinion even more consistent than Shift, due to no need for an AFD type anti-friction system that was invented at the time they were building the Pyramids. Lou
Lou – for the Hoji boot, can you comment on if the new Tecton toe provides more range of motion than the old Tecton toe? Also, for the new toe, does the boot still contact the smaller bumper (with green strip on top) before contacting the larger bumper?
Justin, the new is better by a few degrees with Hoji, but the boot does not go to ninety degrees. In both cases the boot toe hits the smaller green bumper first. You might be able to grind a bit off the green bumper, but it wouldn’t make much real difference. Note that since the Hoji fitting is located a few mm back from normal, it compensates a bit for the limited stride range, but not to the extent where I’d recommend touring with Tecton/Vipec/Evo Hoji. Lots of other boots available. Lou
Justin,
FYI, just because I have them here and can measure it. Measured from horizontal to the sole of boot with large digital angle finder (2′ arms typically used for large crown molding). Where your lower leg actually encounters resistance will vary with the individual, lean lock angle of the boot, stride style, etc. The newer toe piece hits the green plastic bar first, but I don’t see damage to either boot.
Spectre 2.0 with ’17-’18 toe piece= 65 degree. Lower leg is almost parallel with ski. I never noticed interference with this set up at all, even in steep kick turns you would almost have to have your lower leg less than horizontal to the ski and this just doesn’t happen.
Spectre 2.0 with ’18-’19 toe piece= 77 deg. More range than I think anyone could put their body in.
Hoji with ’17-’18 toe piece= 49 deg. This I never did ski, but it appeared that it may interfere with your stride.
Hoji with ’18-’19 toe piece= 60 deg. No problems with this set up. Lower leg is almost parallel with the ski.
I was able to bench test and carpet test with my Tecnica Zero Tour AT boots. I set the forward pressure by turning the adjustment screw until it started to go into the socket, then backed it out so it was flush again. Along the way I tried a few other positions as well. I’m seeing the Tecnica boots release very, very nicely. You push on them or twist your toe and the carriage slides over and the wing flops down and your boot comes out. It seemed relatively tolerant of the binding length +/- a few clicks. On the other hand, I tried a lot of different forward pressure configurations with my 2013 Maestrale RS. I’m not getting great results and often times the binding seems to jam when pushing on the boot and the wing will not flop down up to the point where I don’t want to force anything and maybe break something. I’m not seeing why this is happening though. My tech inserts are in great shape and the sole of my boot is also in good shape. I do not see any spots where the boot is jamming up in the binding either. The BSL is only 1mm different between the two boots. The biggest difference is the Maestrale is Quickstep and the Tecnica is the original insert style. FWIW, the quickstep benefits of getting the boot in the binding seem pretty negligible.
I read with interest the experiences of Collin and Ryan. I have last year’s Tecton, and have also seen issues with the Maestrale. Similar to Collin, my 2013 Tecnica Cochise releases by hand very smoothly. Not so the Maestrale (also 2013 I think?). The Maestrale jams up halfway through release, and it needs an easing of pressure and then reapplication to make it drop the wing fully and release. I haven’t had a twisting fall on them to know for sure what happens in real life, but I don’t fancy the chances of a clean release. A friend of mine using a Gea RS/Vipec combo last year had a slow speed twisting fall and the binding seemed to only half release in exactly this way. Hurt her ankle quite a bit, now mostly recovered thankfully.
Well, what does Lou tell us? BENCH TEST!! Shame we didn’t pay attention earlier. Anyway, my current theory is that the problem is the rubber sole area under the toe catching hold of the plastic piece of the wing that hinges upwards as the main wing falls outwards, before the toe pin has disengaged (those with bindings to look at will see what I mean!). This stops the wing fully rotating and prevents release. When I find a minute, I’m going to keep shaving rubber off this area and see if it resolves. Shame to lose my sole though!
Thanks for the comment Richard, let us know how the sole shaving goes. Lou
Well I did bit more tinkering today. It does definitely seem to be that the black plastic step-in guide is catching in the boot sole rubber before the pin has left the socket, causing it to lock up. Some judicious rubber removal from the sole helped a bit, and then in a spirit of adventure I followed it up with some reshaping of the step-in guide (with this boot toe they don’t actually seem to serve a useful purpose in any case). That did the trick – seems to work smoothly now without catching. So far I’ve only worked on one boot and one side of one binding, partly for time and partly because I’m still puzzled why this seems necessary – the Maestrale is hardly a rare boot! I think I’ll drop a line to Fritschi, though might stop short of telling them I’ve been chopping pieces off their binding…
Hi Richard, the reasons this sort of thing happens are pretty simple. Mostly, boot and binding companies simply can not test every combination. For example, some boots don’t even exist when a binding is produced, and vice versa. Also, the existing industry standards do little if anything to help. I don’t see this changing quickly, and I wouldn’t want it to change radically as one reason we’ve seen such wonderful innovation in ski touring is the non-compliance with standards. Lou
I thin k you must have mixed up new/old vs left/right in some of those image captions. E.g., in image 2 and 3 the bindings clearly have switched places but the caption states new to the left in both. Unless of course you have both old and new bindings in both colors.
Ha! Arne, Lou must have been checking to see if we were paying attention.
He actually has it right but between image 2 and 3 the bindings switch from New Vipec/old tecton, to New Tecton/old Vipec. The issue that he is looking at never changes which is the toe bump modifications to accommodate the shark nose boots from Dynafit.
On an aside, I’ve also found that my older Garmont Masterlites don’t like the older style bump and the fittings are funky enough to require a massive amount of pin adjustment. Wonder if the fittings in the Masterlites and Literiders were the same that had been used in the first gen Cosmos from Garmont. A little mod to the toe bump and I get a full 90 deg on my stride though in tour mode….
Ski touring gear is a never ending source for fiddling in the home shop!!!! Keeps me from the honey-do list, but keeps me sane.
Yeah, I was happily photographing that stuff and somehow got my right left left behind, but did fix the captions a while ago. A little eccentricity to keep us all hopping (smile). Lou
So regarding Hoji Pro Tour and Tecton usage in particular, are we now agreed that the new Evo/Tecton toe is better, but not as good as it could be (is there a “perfect”?) and the Tecton/Hoji heel connection is 100% ok, ie there is enough welt on the boot heel for the Tecton heel piece to connect to? So many sites stating NON compatibility, but we trust WS above all others, so apart from the toe bumping annoyance, Tecton/Hoji combo is approved and safe as per Fritschi/BD compatibility data sheet and Fritschi’s 4 point video tutorial?
Darren, I’m on the road for a few days and I’ll be back, and do a final check. But i do have a Scott Cosmos and a Hoji Pro here with me in my hotel room. The Scott has has “normal” shaped toe and heel welts as far as I can tell. The Hoji actually has a 2 mm deeper heel shelf than the Scott, but it’s a bit oddly shaped, as we’ve discussed before in regards to use of the binding that has no name (starts with K). I don’t recall any problems with heel when I bench tested Hoji in Tecton, but I could have missed or forgotten something. When I get home in a couple of days I can resolve this for you.
Addendum: I’m sitting here with CEO of Dynafit North America, I asked him about compatibility, he confidently stated “no problem.” Of course that’s the party line, but it carries weight.
Lou
Hi all…had to take a break from all the binding nonsense and actually ski! My Tectons and Tecnica zero g pro tours have skied fantastic although I have not had any falls to test the real release (knock on wood). My buddy though also has the Tectons and a pair of the Maestrale RS (version 1 not the RS2). They are essentially brand new, only worn a couple times and we were trying to figure out the release problem. His boots were releasing pretty nicely although you could feel a tiny bit of catch. After testing and head scratching we determined similar to @Richard, the rubber near the center of the toe of the boot was jamming up on the step in guide of the binding. So we trimmed (a pretty small amount) some of the rubber and sure enough now the release is WORSE, as in it completely jams up and does not release. It’s really not clear what is going on. Perhaps @Richard is correct that still the step in guide is interfering in some way, but it also kind of looks like the quik step guide maybe is catching on the pin a little bit. My Tecnica Pro Tours, which have a standard tech fitting and a softer rubber on the toe compared to the Maestrale, look to interfere just as much with the step in guide as the Maestrale does. That extra soft rubber however may be allowing the guide to simply compress it and move it easily out of the way. You can visually see the step in guide pressing several millimeters into the rubber compared to the Maestrale where the guide barely dents the rubber. Next, we thought maybe all would be good if we actually put weight on the binding. So with my buddy standing in the boot engaged in the binding, I would tap on the toe of the boot. The elasticity was quite impressive with even light tapping. With the boot prior to modifying the rubber a reasonable whack on the boot would pop it out quite nicely. After modifying the sole this was not the case. I was either going to break my hand or the binding… As a reminder I was having the exact same problems with my several year old Maestrales that at this point have similar sole wear compared to how we modified my friend’s boot sole. So with my Tecnica boots I’ll just have to keep tabs over the next few seasons if the release changes as the sole wears. Or maybe the shifts will improve some of the minor issues they are having this year and I will switch to those. Or maybe some real crazy stuff like a touring binding with an electric motor and track drive to propel you uphill will come out and I’ll go with that 😉
I broke my tibia in mid-January. Now that I’m over feeling sorry for myself, I’m tying to understand whether there were any gear-related factors that contributed to the fall causing break rather than a face plant and being laughed at.
Basically, I hit a powder-covered rock straight on (I was trying to carry my speed across a flat, and it did look totally flat), both skis came off, and one tibia was broken pretty badly.
I was using Fritschi Vipek bindings, which I had upgraded to because of the ability to set the DIN. I’ve skied on this setup quite a bit. One thing that I have noticed is that sometimes, at the bottom of the run, the toe is not fully in ski mode – it’s partially in walk. I don’t know if it gets knocked or if I’m not paying enough attention when I put them on. As this could affect the release at the toe, I’m thinking it could have contributed to the break. I was wondering what others thought and if there have been other cases where this was may have been a factor in an injury. I was also wondering, in general, how pin bindings compare to frame bindings at releasing under this kind of force.
This seems like a good place to ask geeky binding questions. I’m looking forward to the responses.
Hi Kim, sorry to hear that! We have tons of content regarding binding functions, including retention and release. Try using our search box, at upper left on desktop version of website.
Know that no ski binding can protect your legs from all angles/forces that skiing can induce. That said, the Fritschi offerings do provide a release function that might be better at protecting the skier from tibial fractures, than regular tech bindings. But if the binding is partially locked, all bets would be off.
As for toes being locked as a factor in injury, I’ve heard of it happening dozens of times. Isn’t that axiomatic? Lock out a release function, and end up with an injury that function might have prevented.
Lou
Kim…FWIW, I ski with a friend who has the Vipek bindings. He has the same problem with the binding occasionally being tripped into partial walk mode. He’s determined the cause is accidentally hitting the lever with his pole plant while skiing.
As I recall, locking a Vipec toe only prevents the boot toe from opening the toe pins after the heel has released. This is not likely to contribute to breaking a tibia, but what do I know? A locked Vipec toe can still release to either side.
It seems unlikely that a pole basket could pull up and lock a Vipec toe lever in full flight. I expect that if the toe lever is locked, the skier locked it deliberately.
I should clarify, my friends issue is not with the toe, but with the heel unit. He occasionally trips it and goes into walk mode, suddenly becoming an unintended tele skier. Again, he’s pretty sure it happens while downhill skiing and the basket catches the lever during a pole plant. Sorry if my other response was confusing.
Okay, Larry, what you describe is not at all what Kim describes.
Having used Vipecs for several years and hundreds of ski days and having early on experienced the unexpected change at the heel to walk mode, I assure you that it cannot happen due to a pole plant, even if you try. For me, it was a case of failing to lock the heel lever completely and positively into ski mode. Once I understood this, it never happened again .
Following my previous post re Dynafit Hoji and Tecton compatibility, I’m going to dump all my observations here, even though I guess the Hoji bit should be in a different thread.
I’ve now spent a couple of weeks touring in the Hoji + 18/19 Tecton, i.e. new Tecton/Vipec toe. Ski retailers in Europe are generally very clear that the Hoji can only be used with the 18/19 version of the Fritschi bindings. In practice I’ve had no problems whatsoever, albeit in some situations with steep kick turns in deep snow you do hit the new low profile toe-piece ‘bump’ earlier than a traditional pin toe, but it’s still very manageable and I never found it a nuisance. I was quite happy touring this setup on long tours and didn’t feel it was a big compromise to make for much better performance for the ski down.
Hoji observations; the Hoji tours significantly better than the Scarpa Maestrale RS2 (my other boot, which cracked at the toe and is awaiting replacement under warranty – I’ll let you know what happens there when it happens!). In particular, Hoji has fantastic forward ROM in stride, which is most important for me, allowing me to get right over the top part of my ski. RS2 has similar forward ROM but gets very stiff towards the limit of its range; Salomon MTN hits the front much, much earlier… Hoji feels lighter but in fact the difference with my RS2’s is just 200g less. Ski mode flex in the Hoji is completely different from RS2; Hoji has a firm, deep, linear forward flex. Reminds me of my old Flexon boots! Hoji cuff angle more upright than RS2 but the Hoji can be driven deeper in forward flex to compensate – RS2 just hits a wall in forward flex and the only way to dial in some feel in forward pressure is to fiddle with the shin strap. Hoji transition into touring is SO easy (for my ankle/leg shape) – just flip the lever and walk! Amazing! But one bad thing with Hoji – the Hoji cuff lock moulding on the inside of the boot, either side of your leg just above the ankle, is quite thick. The cuff is also very perpendicular transversely (left to right). So if you’re slightly bowed in the lower leg (who isn’t?!) you can feel this ‘Hoji lock’ moulding pressing into the sides of your leg when you’re on a hard traverse and the ski is rolled over. I had to grind these down quite a bit to get comfortable.
Finally on the Tecton/Vipec toe, I too have found that skiing in deep snow can push the front tour lever upwards just enough the lock the toe-piece. My son also skis the Tecton. He skis hard and fast and has had the toe lever work itself completely into walk mode, likely from hitting chunks of snow on the descent. However, I notice the lever lock on the 18/19 toe is much stiffer. I can’t lift it into walk mode with my pole; I now have to pull it up with my hand.
Good morning, even my Tecton 12 has the problem of the lever that jumps to walk when I insert the boot. Some time ago I adjusted, after removing the retainer that locks, the screw that is on a lever of the tip shortening its stroke and thus making the shot less violent. I must say that I almost solved the problem because the abnormal shot happens more rarely. In any case, every time I insert the boot I watch carefully if the lever is in the right position, I do it sometimes even while skiing. As for the diced on the vine I think it serves the same reason but without unscrewing the vine. But maybe I’m wrong, I do not know. However, the first series Tecton for me has a bit ‘too many problems: first the heel and now the toe. Too bad because it is potentially a great attack. I hope the new 2018-2019 has solved the problems. Thanks for your attention and good skiing at all.
Giancarlo and all, IF YOUR TECTON IS GOING INTO WALK MODE WHEN YOU STEP INTO TOE, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG. I tested with eight different boots and did not have this problem, so in my opinion if you do have the problem, there is something wrong with your boot/binding combo, or something wrong with the binding (mis-adjusted or defective). If you accidentally ski with the binding toe locked, you could cause yourself grievous injury. If you binding has this behavior, I would recommend going to a dealer and testing with a few different boots, to determine if it’s the boots or the binding causing the behavior. If binding, then adjust or warranty replace immediately!
Fixing this might be as easy as moving the adjustable toe pin a millimeter or 2. It might just be it is adjustable for a reason (smile).
Lou
Lou; Please confirm; didja test the eight boots out in the field, real world skiing conditions or on the bench? Funny things happen outside in the snow with binders sometimes. Just sayin’, just in case.
Hi Swiss, we field tested with just a couple pair of boots, and then I did 8 boots on bench. I couldn’t replicated the behavior, which is good. I suspect the solution is a simple adjustment of the threaded toe pin. If I close the binding toe without boot, it does snap up into locked mode, supporting my take. Ski shops are supposed to check this stuff and know how to fix it. Lou
Lou, that’s right! Simply adjust the screw on the tip lever. I understood this by intuition not seeing what other function could have. Nothing is written in the Fritschi manual. You’re right: technicians and retailers should know! Ciao (saluto italiano).
hi , did someone try the updated tecton toe with a boot with DIN soles (like the recent Cochise 130 or a Nordica strider with DIN soles mounted ? )