Intuition Pro Tour Liners — 101% Backcountry
Intuition made the heat moldable boot liner widely available some years ago. But not content to rest on their laurels as a pioneer, Intuition then diversified their product to a variety of boot liners, all of which shared common and desirable traits: durability; astonishing conformability; exceptional quality. Now, the company continues their innovation with the ski touring specific Intuition Intuition Pro Liner, a no compromise attempt to improve the lives of backcountry skiers worldwide. Highlights include lace closure, customizable tongues, customized foam for fore-aft flex as well as the warmth and light weight discerning skiers and snowboarders have come to expect from Intuition.
Intuition Pro Tour liner.
TECHNICAL DETAILS
The Pro Tour Liner looks like Intuition’s other tongue liners (Luxury and Freeride) but with some key differences:
1. Ultralon foam mixed in with Flexalon foam
I’ve previously written here at WildSnow.com about the superior thermomolding characteristics of the Intuition Ultralon foam. In developing their tongued liners, Intuition wanted to produce liners that were easier to fit in-store and that could potentially fit well without the necessity of custom heat-molding (of course with the caveat that everyone’s foot is different). Intuition followed this same design philosophy with the Pro Tour liner but took it one step by developing a softer, more moldable foam and combining this foam (called “Flexalon”) with Ultralon foam.
Cutout of the Pro Tour liner showing the Ultralon foam mixed in with the red Flexalon foam located at strategic spots
Flexalon foam is located at strategic spots in the liner to aid in tourability. At the rear cuff, it allows the liner to flex rearward with less resistance than the stiffer Ultralon foam. At the toebox it aids in comfort, and is designed to help prevent toes from being bashed. Flexalon has the same insulation properties of Ultralon (so the Pro Tour liner is as warm as other Intuition liners). None of the relatively soft Flexalon foam is underfoot – so the Pro Tour liner shouldn’t pack out any quicker then other Intuition liners.
2. Customizable tongues
A self explanatory feature, this allows you to customize the feel of a backcountry skiing boot by switching between a softer or stiffer tongue. Both pairs of tongues come with the liners. The tongues attach with a velcro tab so you can remove them by hand. Side note: removing the tongue lets you dry the liner quicker — nice.
Stiff tongue on the right, soft tongue on the left
3. Speed lace system
Some people like laces on their liners. They’re handy for blister prevention, or for wearing your liners around as hut or camp booties. I’ve never liked liner laces for the simple reason that they’re one more thing to break or to mess around with. However, Intuition uses a “speed lace” system which allows you to pull on one cord and lace up the liner. It works well; there’s nothing to break. If you don’t like the laces, they’re easy to remove.
Speed lacing system, Intuition Pro Tour liner for backcountry skiing.
FIT
At time of writing, the Pro Tour liner was only available in a medium volume density. I found that I tightened my boot buckles (a Dynafit ZZeus and a Garmont Megaride) more when I used Intuition’s Pro Tour liner as compared to other Intuition medium volume liners. As data points, I usually use an Intuition Alpine liner (overlap design) in Garmont Megarides and an Intuition Alpine Powerwrap liner (overlap design and the stiffest Intuition liner) and an Intuition Luxury liner (tongue liner, medium stiffness flex) in my Dynafit ZZeus.
I used a size 10 Pro Tour liner in both boots trying both tongues. I did not mold the liner. My boots are size 27.0 Mondo (sz 43 or US 9).
I’ll reiterate what I said in my previous article – of course, individual preference and individual feet play an even larger role in liner selection and selecting the correct liner size. The boots in which the liners will be used, skier skill, skier size and weight, terrain skied, individual preference (ie loose fit vs tight fit) …. all these factors play a role in determining which liner will fit the bill.”. Having said that, I did not have to mold the Pro Tour liners and could use them out – of – the box without problems. Initially I had problems getting the boots tight enough in ski mode and had to adjust the tightness of the buckles. Touring with them was comfortable. I further note that I am fortunate in having generic feet that fit most boots and liners without issue. Having said that, and bearing in mind all these qualifications, for me, the Pro Tour liner was a very comfortable fit out of the box and without molding.
A cut-out in the front instep allows resistance free forward flex.
Performance
The Pro Tour liner certainly lived up to its billing for touring comfort. I used it in a variety of trips including steep uphills, flat glacier approaches, lots of switchbacking and kickturns. The tourability of this liner is more apparent in a softer boot like my Megaride as compared to a stiffer boot like the ZZeus. I’m one of those people who’ve loosened all their buckles and straps when touring and never had issues with letting the foot move around in a liner so can’t particularly speak to the efficacy of the lace-up system. (which purports to “alleviate undue pressure when ascending or descending”). However, my wife, who doesn’t have feet as well-behaved as myself found the lace-up liner to help in avoiding blisters and particularly enjoyed pain-free feet on a multi-day Rogers Pass trip.
I tried the Pro Tour liner with different tongues on the descent. I didn’t find much difference between the soft and stiff tongue on the Pro Tour liner with the softer Megaride. I did find that using the soft tongue in the stiffer ZZeus boot compromised the boot’s descending characteristics but that using the stiffer tongue helped somewhat. I can’t say that I specifically recommend much or draw conclusions from this other then that the stiff and soft tongues do alter the touring and downhill characteristics of a boot. Therefore, view the fact that Intuition includes two different tongues with the liners as a plus and not just as a marketing gimmick. Mix and match liners, tongues and boots and one will have many options..
(Guest blogger Lee Lau is an avid skier and outdoorsman embarking on many adventures with his loving, and sometimes concerned wife, Sharon. He has over fifteen years of experience backcountry skiing and dabbles in mountaineering. In the “off-season” he is occasionally found working in his day job as an intellectual property lawyer when he is not mountain biking. As a resident of Vancouver and Whistler, British Columbia, Lee’s playground extends mainly to Western Canada, including South West B.C. and the Selkirks. Lee writes here.)
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Comments
60 Responses to “Intuition Pro Tour Liners — 101% Backcountry”
I just molded these with a double toe cap (wiggle room for my piggies) in my Denali boots (Spirit 3’s)….wow, what a difference over the stock liner. The 29 mondo liner seems to fit very well in the 28.5 boot for some extra insulation. The boot walks/tours much better and overall fit of the boot is much improved. I’ve found the interior fabric is also easier to get on and off than with the stock liners. Good review.
Lee – I would be interested in a direct comparison to the Intuition wrap liners. How do you think the overlap design tours in comparison to the tounge design? I use Intuition Power Wraps and find that I actually prefer the overlap when touring v. a tonge/lace up liner (note: when I used lace ups, I always tightened the laces).
Thanks, Lee,
“At time of writing, the Pro Tour liner was only available in a medium volume density.” Will they come out with other volume densities in the future?
How much are they?
Heard rumours that the Pro Tours don’t ski as well in terms of stiffness as older Intuition liners – I don’t think you commented on that. Please also mention what other companies liners you have used and how they compare for skiing stiffness, which is one reason many people go to Intuition.
thanks lee,
timely review for me, i was just thinking of getting these liners.
why did you use a 10 liner size for the 27(9) boot?
does this give more liner volume?
if so why do you think you had to tighten the boot buckles more?
Nice!
Hmmmm,
I just got my Pro Tours in the mail today and they look like they have already been molded once! There are rivet marks in sides from the interior of a boot and I did not get both styles of tongues.
Guess I’m calling Intuition today.
Palau appears to have some catching up to do.
I replaced my liners this season. Looked at the Pro Tour, very nice and comfortable, the lace up is slick, but for me they were soft. I wanted something stiffer in my Scarpa Matrix. I bought the Power Wrap liners, heat moulded at the Vancouver shop. Got a good fit and can ski in my bare feet or an extremely thin nice fitting sock, comfy and warm. No complaints. Well one, no @#!^&% snow here!
I go one size bigger for my Pro fit liners to take up the volume.
Good liners!
What happened to your Titans Lee?
I got more inbounds runs on my ZZeus now and have to agree to the sentiment expressed in your Titan review that for an active skiing style extra stiffness would be good.
To feel really bombproof in my ZZeus I have to buckle them so tight my feet get cold and uncomfortable easily (if I don’t unbuckle on the lift).
Also looking forward to find out more about the new Scarpa Mobe, any chance for a review?
A general Intuition question: are these going to be noticeably warmer than a pair of stock Garmont Radium liners?
I’ve had a pair of intuitions from an older pair of Denali TTs and have been using those in my boots for the last couple of years with no frost bite problems. It only took a few cold CO days to give me frostbite on my big toes with the Garmont liners. Do you think the Intuitions would be a big help?
90 percent of boot warmth is how they fit. But, I think the Pro Tour liner might be a bit warmer due to softer and lower density foam in the toe area. Intuition claims this stuff is the same warmth as their regular foam, but by virtue of it being softer, my theory is that it’ll be a bit warmer. We’ll see.
To answer your question, look at your cold liners and see how thick the foam is in the molded area to the sides and ends of your toes. If that area is thin and compressed, that’s why they’re cold and a liner upgrade probably isn’t going to help unless you get the boots punched out or upsized. But, if the foam is thick, next thing is do your toes have enough room or are they cramped? If enough room, then yeah, it might be worth experimenting with an aftermarket liner.
Sorry! I was away for a bit.
@ Nick – I used the touring liners for a longish glacier approach. They tour better then the overlaps in that you get a longer touring stride which I like. If you tend to shuffle your feet or if you don’t do the kick and glide then maybe it won’t be so bad. This was paired with a ZZeus overlap boot which IMO has the best walk mode of any overlap boot to date I have tried.
@ harpo – $ 180 US – you can buy online from Intuition or from dealers listed at their website. High – low volume liners out probably till next spring. My medium didn’t take up enough space (i have flat feet and usually use a high volume wrap or tongued Intuition liners). So if you have flat feet wait a bit till spring maybe to get the high volume Pro-tour liner.
As for skiing. I’ve had (and gratefully burned) Garmont G-Fit Palau liners (04, 05, 06 laceup vintage and had a few days in the 08 Palau liners)
Intuition Alpine, Alpine Powerwrap, Luxury, Freeride and Pro-Tour liners.
Dynafit Thermofit and Multiform liners (from the ZZero and ZZeus stock)
IMO, the ProTours have toured the best of all of those (reference comment on lack of fore-aft resistance which (again IMO) works
IMO the ProTours didn’t ski as well as the Intuition wrap liners or the tongued liners. They also didn’t ski as well as the stock ZZero MF liners. I had heel-lift in the ZZeus boots because I couldn’t buckle them tight enough – possibly because I was in medium volume liners when I should be in high-volumes. As another data point – I had the ProTour liners in my Megarides where I could buckle them tight and they skied better.
Yet another datapoint – when I tour, all my buckles are quite loose. Take all this into consideration when interpreting my observations for your personal needs. As has been stated before, everyone’s feet, personal preferences and needs are different. All I’m doing with my observations is seeding data.
@jack.
Intuition usually recommends a size up liner from the boot shell size. According to them this is because the foam is so thermomoldable it is possible to mold the liner down to the bootshell size. I also think it prolongs liner life as all thermomoldable liners pack down (all those little cells break down over time) since you start with a higher volume of liner.
I think I couldn’t get my buckles tight enough because I usually use a high-volume liner and all Intuition had for me was a medium volume (see my note to Harpo
But, the compressed foam is not as warm, so don’t go overboard with the oversizing if you want warm feet.
@ Euro Rob.
The Titans are just so big and stiff! If I did a lot of inbounds then maybe I would have kept the pair. But I’m just a wee 155 pounder (74kgs or so). Paired with a big big ski maybe but I kind of liked having a bit more feel for the snow. I still like the Titans for my Megawatts (yup I stuck Dynafits on them) but I like the ZZeus for almost everything else inbounds. As a digression, putting Alpine Overwrap Intuition liners in the ZZeus makes them pretty stiff.
I’m getting some Scarpa Maestrales and the Mobes for spring – March, early April timeframe? Their spec looks very nice
@Pierce. I’ve got to agree with Lou (this is getting to be a habit). The Palaus are better their old gen in terms of packing out. But its also got to do a lot with your fit
I talked to Intuition about my “Previously thermofit liners”. Apparently they used to pre-mold their liners in snowboard boots which gave them a very generic look. Now they pre mold in a Scarpa shell (Spirit, I think) which does leave rivet marks on them if the worker bee clamps down the buckles real tight.
If anyone gets some and wonders (like I did), if they’re returns that had been molded once, the answer is no, it’s just the way they pre-mold.
Also, they did ship a few pairs with both tongues because they had a small run of them. They ran out and when the new batch arrives, they don’t plan on shipping them as “included”, but will probably sell them as an accessory.
Got mine fit today, ski tour tomorrow to test.
@Lee, are the Alpine liners beefier than the stock TF-X? Might be a good call to swap them in for resort days, then.
What is the burliest Intuition liner?
EuroRob. – the beefiest Intuition liner is still the Alpine Powerwrap. Note – not the Alpine. The Powerwrap has the stiffening HEPE plastic around the forefoot area.
Its just a tad stiffer then the Stock TF-X and about 160g lighter per foot!
Thanks for the review, Lee.
What is meant by ‘volume’ of those liners? I assume it’s the amount of foam used, but it might be the cuff height?
I’m currently on the latest Palau liners, which work fairly good for me.
My Megarides came with the old G-Fit (http://www.acmeclimbing.com/ProductImages/garmont/gfit3linerlg.jpg) which started to dissolve out of the box. One of the eylets exploded when I tried them on at the first time. Their fit and stiffness were compareable to a thick sock.
Thankfully I got them replaced with the much better actual model (http://www.garmont.com/deu/ski/tech_scarpette.php), which have been great so far.
Interestingly over here in Austria, people aren’t as sophisticated about liners as on sites like wildsnow or at the TGR forums. I think there would be a great market for Intuition. The easiest (and cheaper) way to get a pair is to buy some aftermarket scarpa liners I guess.
Sebastian,
The volume does refer to the amount of foam used. So a higher volume liner would take up more space
Hi Lee,
I’m trying to cram my wide feet into a pair of Titan’s. I have a narrow heel but wide front. Hopefully some shell work will sort out the front but I really want tight heel hold.
Is there an aftermarket liner you would recommend which could help with this?
Tks,
Bob
ps on a totally unrelated subject, what skis do you use on steep slopes? I ski Kuros as everyday off piste skis but need something lighter for touring that will still work on steep slopes
Bob,
That makes sense. I have a moderately wide forefoot and heel and managed to fit the excellent stock TF-X liner without issue. Thermofitting makes it even better. For tight heel hold perhaps some laceup liner might work like the Intuition Pro-Tour in a high volume? Perhaps even some strategically placed pads on that TF-X liner? Just throwing out ideas here — maybe others have some ideas.
For steeps I use a BD Verdict (the older lighter foam core version) and for spring conditions where I want tenacious edge hold the good old reliable Atomic TMex (basically a R:ex). Keep in mind where I ski and that I’m also fairly light (76 kilos or so)
Thanks Lee. I have some of those plastic heel “grips” which should help. Seems like the stock liner is worth sticking with.
Re skis I’ve taken a bit of a leap of faith and gone for the PM Gear Bro 183, hoping that it’s stiff enough to grip, light enough to tour and wide enough to have some fun!
Tried the Scott Crusair at the weekend which was really light and skied great in the good conditions we had in Chamonix. It got a bit nervous when hitting the hard layer underneath though on the steeper slopes so not sure it would have held up if it had been icy.
Here are some youtube videos on molding Intuition liners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLzUQQGBJus&NR=1 official version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2n53yTQ4Qc&NR=1 at home rice bag method
I am trying to replace the liners in my radiums and was contemplating between the Pro Tours and the Black Diamond At Power Fit Ski Boot Liner. I am happy with the current amount of flex in the stock liners but just need better heal hold and a little more toe room. I also have a low volume narrow foot. Does anyone have any suggestions?
thanks
Scott, if you have a low volume narrow foot and need toe room, just mold liners with some extra padding in the toe cap, that is unless you’re working with boots that are too short for toe room.
Hard to say which liner choice would be better, I’d advise getting them both and trying without molding. If you’re working mail order, just get both and send one back. I like the Pro Tour overall, but don’t like the space taken up by the wad of Velcro that the tongue attaches to. Nothing is perfect…
I’m thinking of switching the stock liners in my Dynafit Titans to some Intuitions. The shells are really snug and my left foot is giving my some trouble. I have a really wide forefoot, and have had the shells punched out at bit. It feels like the stock liner’s toe box is really tight despite thermomolding. I think the stitching on the front of the stock liner and the rubber sole makes it somewhat hard to stretch the toe box and getting a little roomier fit.
So Lee; do you think the Pro Tour or the Luxury (low volume) liners could be more customizable than the stock Titan liner? And what is your experience with the stock Titan liner with regards to how much it packs out after 10-20-30 days of use?
My real problem is a slightly larger left foot, so maybe the final solution would be to get the toe area punched out a little bit. My bootfitter though was somewhat concerned about punching out that area because of the interchangeable soles. Your take?
Thanks!
The Dynafit Titan (and ZZeus) liner stretches out a bit but IMO not as much as the Intuition liner. I fit the Dynafit liner very well so didn’t need much bootwork at all.
As your bootfitter notes its possible but difficult to punch the forefoot much because of the soles. Also because AT boots tend to have slightly thinner plastic to save a bit of weight. You can punch AT boots but you have to be careful and do it in small incremental steps. But I’m not a bootfitter so this is second-hand knowledge.
I suspect that both the Pro Tour and Luxury liners would be more customizable than the stock but I would also maybe lean to the Luxury rather than the Pro Tour unless you’re trying to soften up the Titan at the same time as improve fit. Also I have generic ankles (neither thick nor thin); I found the medium Pro Tour to be not quite enough room in the ankles so I had to reef down buckles for heel hold; while the medium Luxury was fine in terms of volume of liner. Is there any way to check out the fit in person? Sorry to be so vague but its very difficult to offer more than generalities over this medium
Hi Lou,
I am thinking of getting an Intuition liner for my Dynafit Zero C (3 buckles). As I recall you use an Intuition liner for your Zero C 4. Could you recommend a liner and size? My Dynafits are 29.5 Mondo. Would a US size 11 work with this? Any recommendations would be much appreciated as I am in Austria with no access to a dealer close by. Europe for all its ski tour access and equipment doesn’t have much to offer in custom liner solutions (Strolz being the exception but I don’t think their system works so well for ski touring).
Thanks!
Philip, I’d recommend contacting Intuition directly. They’re very helpful in such matters.
Exactly what Ben said. I’d add that the Intuition Pro Tour seems to work pretty well, but it does have a wad of velcro where the removable tongue attaches, and if your boot has a tight shell fit and you’ve got a high volume foot, the thickness in that area can be tough to deal with as it doesn’t mold out.
Ben and Lou, thanks for the tips. I will do just that. I have a very high arch but thin calves that sometimes makes it tricky for a good fit. Usually this results in some slight movement around the ankle area which isn’t so great. So it looks like the Pro Tour is out of the question.
Resurrection of an older post, but I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and looking at the intuition line to determine what might be the best liner to put into the new Dynafit boot line (Vulcan/Mercury/One). I think the Pro Tour might be the ticket. The boots are quite stiff with the stock liner, and I would rather have a liner that can tour well (to pair well with the new boot design/function) than a stiff liner. What do you think Lou?
I should specify that I have the Mercury and with the option of the removable tongue the boots are VERY stiff with the tongue installed while being very supple and providing good movement while touring with it removed. Therefore I think the Pro Tour liner could work well.
Steven, I’d have to agree. The latest Pro Tour is improved as they got rid of the wad of velcro above your toes that was holding the tongue on.
But, why not use the stock Dynafit liner? Are you having fit problems?
Or you just want to see if you can improve the boot? Fair enough if so…
Lou
Lou, I am deciding right now if I will use the stock liner, or get an intuition and really try and nail a custom, comfortable liner fit. I have never had a pair of boots heat molded before and have been quite comfortable, but what I hear about a good mold it sounds like it takes comfort to a new level.
The only fit issue I am having out of the box is a slight pressure over the arch of my foot from the placement of the middle buckle of the boot. Having now worn the boot around the house for a few hours at different times, I am getting more used to this feeling. I notice when pushing my shin forward into the cuff of the boot, the pressure subsides and it is replaced with an excellent heel hold and an all around snug but solid feeling. Secondly, after wearing the boots for an extended period of time (still on carpet inside the house) I feel the ankle/calf area is a little too snug. I’m thinking a mold of the stock liner could help with some of these minor issues. Have you had any of the liners from Vulcan/Mercury prototypes molded at Wildsnow HQ?
Hi Steven,
Main thing to know is that on all my Dynafit boots I move the middle buckle back a bit. Fits my foot much better and might help yours.
As for fit before molding, its supposed to be at least somewhat uncomfortably tight — in the correct length shell. If not, your boots are too big.
Lou
I’ve heard you talk about that preference before. Could you clarify where you like the buckle? Is the buckle now in the ideal location from the factory with these boots? Or farther from optimal? Just trying to clarify.
It depends on your foot. I like a buckle that’s slightly closer to my instep so I relocate the side that’s riveted to the boot. Typical boot fitting stuff.
Hi, I am going to order Pro Tour liners for my Dynafit Mercury boots. They are size 26,5 (and tight). Which liner-size do you guys recommend me to go for? as I understand, there is a difference in the Intuition mondo-sizes, and the boot manufacturers sizes.
Is it crazy to try to get a Pro Tour to work in my TLT5s and Titans? My stock liners are destroyed in the TLT5 and the stock liners in my Titans have had all the pull tabs ripped off (albeit by me).
Have the Pro Tours in TLT5 Performance…work great!
ditto
I am surprised to see that no one seems to mind the HUGE seam and pile of overbuilt material on the tongue where it attaches to the boot via hook and loop.
Maybe its the fact that I am using this with a tele boot but it is unusable in this fashion for me. It is painful upon flex of the baffles on the boot.
I have not molded them but no amount of heat will remove the material unless its reduced to ashes.
I welcome any thoughts on that seam and if I am missing something.
-AC
Aaron,we should have indeed mentioned that in the review. On the other hand, latest version of Pro Tour is much flatter in that area. Lisa just sanded all the velcro off her’s and glued the tongue on so it’s perfectly flat in that area.
Hmmm, I have the latest version straight from Intuition. I would hate to see what a thicker stitch version would look like.
Glue? Interesting. What type of glue would hold through warm moisture, cold temps, and torque and torsion on fabric? I would love to know. As of now I have them up for sale due to the poor design. They should have/could have opted to spread the pressure out wider allowing for less stitching…greater strength through greater real-estate.
thanks
If you don’t need to switch tongues, how about using a seam ripper to detach excess material and needle and thread to attach tongue?
Lisa just sanded all the bulk off with a drum sander, then glued with boot fitter glue (essentially Barge cement). They held up fine. Lou
Ski the bulk out!
Lou et all,
I have some new la sportiva syborgs (same idea as pdgs if you haven’t looked at them). The stock liner is very thin and slides a little bit. I also have a couple tiny fit areas (ankle bone hitting shell) that I think would be solved by a better and thicker liner. I want as much tourability as possible but wouldn’ mind some extra stiffness. Do you recommend the pro tour or the HD or fx race. I have a 2 finger shell fit for reference. My only concern is the race doesn’t have the Achilles cutout, from what I see, and I don’t know if that with significantly affect the tourability of the boots. Thoughts? Thanks for your time!
Hey Lou,
Any thoughts on intuition pro tour liner sizing for the dynafit tlt5p? Can I just go with the mondo size and be happy? I’m moderately cautious, as I don’t want latching the boot to be a PITA, and I also have a wide forefoot that required a punch with the stock liner.
Thanks for the help!
P
USING A 27 PRO TOUR LINER WITH THICK TONGUE IN A 27.5 SHELL.
WEARING THINNER SOCKS. I WENT THIS ROUTE FEELING THAT THE STOCK
LINER WAS TOO THIN TO KEEP MY FEET ADEQUATELY WARM: A LIITTLE LARGER SHELL TO ACCOMIDATE THE THICKER LINER. WORKS VERY WEL FOR ME.
Gregor, nice combo but please don’t shout. Lou
ole dough kee
hi there lou/lee – its been awhile since the last post/question so i hope this gets seen : ) – my feet are somewhat wide and i ski maestrales in a 25.5/26 shell with a little work done punching for a busted left ankle and a bunion by my right toe. Question#1 – would i fit a similar size for the freedom SL, and question#2 – would a 26/26.5 dynafit vulcan work decently for fit? thanks much! kevin
Kevin, I don’t see why you wouldn’t use a similar size Freedom. As for the Vulcan, it’s going to be narrower than a Maestrale (at least according to my recollections), if you’re needing a wider last I’d stick with Scarpa or Scott. Lou
gotcha – thanks for the quick reply lou : ) kevin