Backcountry Skier’s Code Of Optional Conduct (humor)

Post by blogger | August 7, 2009      

Ok you jokers, have at it. I’ll start with a couple of your suggestions and a few more things.

1. I will always carry a bottle opener.

2. When skiing the Wasatch, I will spoon tracks 85 millimeters from each other, NO EXCEPTIONS.

3. Spooning tracks in Alaska is a sin.

4. My dog will always wear a diaper when following me on the skin track.

5. When backcountry skiing with people from (fill in the blank _???_) smile, nod and try to resist violence after three hours of hearing about how instead of skinning this, back in you know where, they would have just sledded’ up in 10 f’n minutes. And coulda hada _fill in blank with regional beer_ along the way.

6. Should Fido pee on a fellow skinner, I will make haste to compensate generously with cash.

7. If I have Bro model skis in my possession, I shall drink nothing but PBR and Redbull, or a combination thereof.

7.a. If I have DPS skis in my possession, I shall drink nothing but holy water.

7.b. If I have 4FRNT skis in my possession, I shall drink nothing but what Hoji drinks.

8. When ski mountaineering in Colorado, I will dig one snowpit an hour and never speak louder than a whisper.

Your additions, oh esteemed WildSnowers?


Please Enjoy A Few Suggested WildSnow Posts


84 Responses to “Backcountry Skier’s Code Of Optional Conduct (humor)”

  1. Steve August 7th, 2009 8:10 am

    My dog will always wear a little diaper when following me on the skin track.

  2. El Jefe August 7th, 2009 9:38 am

    always contribute to your group…. if you don’t bring knowledge of the area and cant’ break trail, bring some beer for the end of the day.

  3. Andrew McLean August 7th, 2009 9:55 am

    Always carry a gun when exploring the ski potential of Colorado Wilderness areas on your snowmachine.

  4. john Gloor August 7th, 2009 10:02 am

    Wow Andrew, from this and other posts I can see you have some strong opinions about sledders and sled access. You might want to try not stereotyping all sled users. Its known as a prejudice. I hate wilderness poacher’s also.

  5. John Strueber August 7th, 2009 10:22 am

    I will always pick up a rider hitching back up a pass road if I have space in my car.

  6. Dostie August 7th, 2009 12:42 pm

    J Gloor,

    There’s a reason we call ’em slednecks, right? Andrew’s simply reminding them not to forget one of the essentials. It’d be a shame to be out on a sled and run across a 10-point buck without the ability to take ‘im down and have fresh venison hocks for dinner, doncha think?

  7. Randonnee August 7th, 2009 12:56 pm

    Veiled hostility, perhaps, against anyone who uses a snowmobile? Is there some sort of envy regarding guns or other envy? I do not appreciate the name calling (mainly because we cannot go at it here) and will not respond in kind since that sort of thing is not acceptable here. I would point out Andrew that you say that you own and use a snowmobile and also hire aircraft for transport for ski mountaineering. Yet, you seem to put a lot of effort into railing verbally against snowmobile use and heli-skiing. This line of whining is not fresh, original, or funny.

  8. Randonnee August 7th, 2009 1:05 pm

    5. If I do not like snowmobiles when I see one or speak of one I will behave as if I have premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
    6. When using my snowmobile to get to the start of uncrowded, pristine ski touring and powder stashes, I will contain on return my public display of glee so as not to encourage the serious depressive symptoms of snowmobile-complainers.

  9. jerimy August 7th, 2009 1:16 pm

    I see no need to take offense to Andrew’s comments unless you are one who illegally rides your snowmobile in Wilderness.

  10. Andrew McLean August 7th, 2009 1:21 pm

    Shouldn’t that be “Vail-ed hostility?”

    When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When in Colorado, break out the sleds and shells.

  11. Slave.To.Turns August 7th, 2009 1:58 pm

    -When touring with people from Colorado, smile, nod and try to resist violence after 3 hours of hearing about how instead of skinning this, back in CO, they would have just sledded’ up in 10 f’n minutes. And coulda had a Coors along the way.

    -Bring some sort of firearm that could either bring down a wooly mammoth, a cornice or both. Win-win!

    -When with Canadians, always, ALWAYS, have some rolling papers.

  12. Randonnee August 7th, 2009 2:04 pm

    Wilderness snowmobile-violators are not likely to read this blog, so why the continued unchanging and pointless whining? No offense taken, I am a happy camper with 50+ bc powder days annually, many using a snomo approach. Folks here do not break the rules as far as it appears, in fact all support civility and law-abiding behavior.

    For humor, see #5 above.

  13. Andrew McLean August 7th, 2009 3:48 pm

    Yeah – what jerimy said. I realize that Lou was kidding when he wrote that all tracks in the Wasatch must be spooned exactly 85cm apart, but if I was a spooner, I might feel threatened or insulted by the comment.

    So why are you guys so touchy about riding snowmobiles in Wilderness areas? Hmmmm…?

  14. Lou August 7th, 2009 3:50 pm

    The main thing to remember is though we do cover snowmobiles here (such as our low emissions quiet Nytro), I doubt anyone reading this blog is a deliberate Wilderness poacher. Good to give folks a place to vent, however, so let’s not take it personally when the venting is done.

    I’d also like to point out that the best place to rail against Wilderness sled poachers is via letter writing to the USFS, one letter to them is equal to 100 blog comments, perhaps even 1,000. The USFS here has really stepped up their enforcement around here (central Colorado) and I think in a few years the problem will be a non-issue.

  15. Lou August 7th, 2009 4:01 pm

    Hey Andrew, that’s an interesting point about why folks are so touchy… I think it’s just the style of your comments, nothing more. You are a master of sarcasm, but sometimes it’s tough to pull sarcasm off in a brief blog comment. Also, I think some folks are just burned out on the put-downs sometimes associated with anti motorized advocates, and they’re probably over-sensitive to any comments that seem to go that direction. I’m probably guilty of that (the sensitivity).

  16. OLDDUDE August 7th, 2009 4:16 pm

    When you see someone (me) in the backcountry ,don’t assume that they care that you live or die, nor that they will somehow be able to help you if you get in trouble. There is a good chance I will be too tired or ill equipped to be of much use even if they (I) had a better attitude.

  17. Randonnee August 7th, 2009 4:45 pm

    There is a lot of good conversation here that is very worthwhile.

    Touchy? No. Perhaps not interested in childish comments on a blog frequented by otherwise intelligent adults. Nobody likes Wilderness snomo poaching, or smart- aleck cheap punk quips, or over-amped aggro rants that I enjoy as well. Being respectful, up front and genuine in conversations here produces some good stuff.

    SSRIs or YAZ are medications that help with serious symptoms exhibited by snowmobile complainers including:

    # feelings of deep sadness or despair, possible suicide ideation
    # feelings of tension or anxiety
    # panic attacks
    # diarrhea
    # mood swings, crying,
    # lasting irritability or anger, increased interpersonal conflicts. Typically sufferers are unaware of the impact they have on those close to them

  18. GearJunkey August 7th, 2009 5:06 pm

    If some one uses the word “Bro” more than 3 times in one sentence – keep a minimum distance of 500meters.

  19. Matt Kinney August 7th, 2009 6:35 pm

    I will not inhale with a snowboarder in the back of a pickup at -20F.

  20. Mark August 7th, 2009 7:46 pm

    Should Fido pee on a fellow skinner, I will make haste to compensate generously with cash.

  21. ScottP August 7th, 2009 9:02 pm

    I dunno, it seems to me people are awfully touchy about Andrew’s snowmobile comments considering this is a joke post. Seems some people missed the (humor) in the title. Maybe if you don’t think snowmobile jokes are funny you should skip the post?

    How about this one:

    9. Buying a multi-thousand dollar piece of recreational equipment makes me part of an opressed, victimized minority and I will treat all jokes at my expense as if they were racially tainted.

    It works for mountain bikers, ATVers, and equestrians, too!

  22. Andrew McLean August 7th, 2009 9:40 pm

    For the record, I’ll reiterate here that I feel that the best way to quash illegal ‘biling is for the user group (that would be many of the regulars here) to come down as hard as possible on poachers. Hate me if you want, but I’m doing law abiding sledders a favor by forcing the issue.

  23. gringo August 8th, 2009 3:06 am

    69. You should always have a twelver of yellow beer to use as barter material for a tow up valley. (embrace your local sledneck)

  24. Lou August 8th, 2009 7:28 am

    Andrew, I’d agree with that.

    How do you propose we come down as hard as possible on Wilderness poachers? For me, that means one simple thing: reporting Wilderness poaching, preferably while it’s happening by using cell phone or satphone. Everything else is blowing smoke, and vandalism or “trail rage” shouting matches could even get someone hurt.

    As for the user group, I guess in a broad sense any of us who own snowmobiles and use them are automatically included in said user group. But, I think it’s important to realize that many “utility riders” such as you and I and others here don’t really socialize or recreate with the true snowmobile recreation crowd who are responsible for much of the poaching, and thus we’re not really involved in a peer group situation. I can say that’s definitely true for myself (though I’m not against going on short fun rides a couple of times a winter).

    That said, there are indeed ski access folks who poach. If I knew anyone who did that I’d certainly express my displeasure to them as well as report it if I was a witness. Fortunately, at this time I don’t know any poachers so I don’t have to deal with that.

    One thing we should all realize is that much of the poaching is a direct result of placing something desirable within easy reach of the person who wants it. I’m not saying that makes it right. But with this aspect of human nature in mind we should examine the issue of enforcement by the USFS.

    Look at it this way: If a jewelry store owner decided to display trays of diamonds on the street with no security, then leave for the day, some or all of those diamonds would be missing when he returned. This is basic psychology and I don’t see why folks can’t understand the way it applies to recreation as well. If the Wilderness powder is easy to access for snowmobilers, and no law enforcement is around or the penalties are mild, some people will choose to go the criminal route. It’s just human nature. Not right, not ethical, but human nature nonetheless.

    In fact, this issue reminds me of how out-of-bounds skiing used to be for myself and many others back before U.S. resorts started opening boundaries. To get the pow we wanted we’d choose to become criminals. I’ve even got a summons to prove it, and paid a fine. To many of the people who had to do resulting rescues, OB skiing was just as heinous as snowmobile Wilderness poaching. But a lot of otherwise non-criminal folks chose to duck the ropes. Did that make it right? No. And Wilderness poaching is not right. But to stop it we need to look at the situation and come up with effective solutions, not just general goals. (And don’t worry, I’m not advocating opening Wilderness boundaries to motorized recreation, just using this as an example of human nature vs laws.)

    So, here is my concrete proposal on how we come down hard: Get to know the person at your regional USFS field office who is in charge of recreation management and can allocate law enforcement resources. Obtain their email address, and set up the OK message on your SPOT Messenger to send them an email that says “Snowmobile Wilderness trespassers witnessed at this location. See Google map and time stamp, please send law enforcement to trailhead.”

    Doing the above would be nearly as good as a using a satphone, perhaps even better in some ways. It would not only give the USFS the opportunity to go bust the offenders, but at the least would give the USFS a SOLID record of poaching that they could use to justify more law enforcement resources.

    So, there you have it, Lou’s action plan. Anyone else care to come up with specifics on how as citizens we can help with this problem?

  25. john Gloor August 8th, 2009 8:07 am

    I’m going on a long bike ride, so I’ll make this short. Scott P, I can only assume your “racially tainted” comment was directed towards my usage of the word “prejudiced”. I never said my sled usage made me an oppressed minority, I just do not like being pre judged (do you see the root of the word) as a wilderness poaching, gun toting asshole because I drive up the snow covered paved road. And as far as the column being a non serious joke, behind every racial joke usually is a person telling it with racist tendencies. As far a Andrew goes telling snowmobile jokes, he does not hide his dislike of the machines.

    I was going to say how I do not hang out with the sledneck crowd and thus self policing them is tough, but Lou already summed up my view in the above post

  26. Ptor August 8th, 2009 8:43 am

    Snowshoers/bootpackers shall create their own track/trail and not desecrate the already existing skier skin track.

  27. Lou August 8th, 2009 9:07 am

    Speaking of human nature, prejudice (racial and non racial) has got to be one of the worst aspects of human nature. No one group is immune from either being or receiving. I’m always on guard about this sad fact of life, have certainly been guilty of it myself, and also been on the receiving end of it…

  28. OLDDUDE August 8th, 2009 10:22 am

    Ghenghis Khan rode a horse. So have many gentle souls. Ghengis Khan didnt give a rat’s ass about peer pressure. There is a significant portion of the biler crowd who approach this debate as a holy war and if you guys intend to win you better be prepared for an ugly war. Some wars are inevitable and worth the price, some aren’t. If you decide to fight this crowd you better have a big nuclear stick and save the peer pressure stuff for gentler times.

  29. Lou August 8th, 2009 12:01 pm

    Olddude, that’s what I’m saying, is that we’re not peers anyway so thinking we have some kind of effective peer group influence on the poacher crowd is totally the wrong way to go. As for the big stick, the law is on our side, that’s pretty big…

  30. Lee August 8th, 2009 4:38 pm

    Move to Europe…ski where you want…how you want.

  31. Mark August 9th, 2009 7:01 am

    I’m a bit perplexed at how more than one post here characterizes Coloradoans as cheap beer swilling sled lovers. I ski primarily Front Range areas that bear no resemblance to this at all.

  32. Ptor August 9th, 2009 7:25 am

    Snowmobiling might actually offset the taxed carbon emissions of ski-tourers that breath too hard breaking trail if depleted uranium based fuels could be developed for snow machines. No tax on that stuff!

  33. OMR August 9th, 2009 10:58 am

    Talk about “Utards”, “bilers” and “Wasatch Spooning”, lets look at the facts: you have a mountain range that is roughly 150 miles long, 20-30 wide, yet ya’ll only play on about 1% of it?? I dropped out of high school to get away from the crouds. Don’t get me wrong, I’m NOT the Utah version of Sarah Palin (thinking wilderness is infinite), but there’s a big world out there, why not go beyond the “ropes”, for real?

  34. Andrew McLean August 9th, 2009 9:01 pm

    Since this is suppose to be a humor posting, I’ll refrain from further comment on poaching snowmobiles. But, if you want to start a new topic, or need a controversial guest blog, I’d be happy to dig in.

  35. Halsted August 9th, 2009 10:25 pm

    Ok, back to adding more rules:

    How about, “I won’t publish directions to top-secreat powder tree stashes on the internet.”

  36. john Gloor August 9th, 2009 10:26 pm

    Darn, I hope I didn’t stop the party here with my first post. Humor is great, until it comes at the expense of someone else.

  37. Randonnee August 9th, 2009 10:57 pm

    Yeah, I have taken numbers of Wilderness snowmobile violators, then met with USFS Law Enforcement and Wilderness personnel. I have also packed in and placed “No snowmobiling signs.” for USFS. If all of the energy put to pointless whining on the internet were directed responsibly that would be significant.

    ScottP said-“I dunno, it seems to me people are awfully touchy about Andrew’s snowmobile comments considering this is a joke post.”

    No, just tired of the endless whine sort of like- “Hey Beavis, that guy does not like crass juvenile comments directed toward anyone who rides a snowmobile.” (laughs) “Yeah, let’s accuse that guy of poaching Wilderness because he admits that he rides a snowmobile.” (laughs)

    My toys cost $500 and $1000 and I & friends have had plenty of lifts to the good skiing to pay for them. I give free tows and rides when I meet skiers slogging a road- that is if they are congenial. Unfortunately, there are too many snarly skiers when this skier on a snowmobile comes by. It is sad to say that when this skier on a snowmobile gets more respect and congenial conversations from snowmobilers than from many skiers…some folks need to grow up and get a grip of reality.

  38. Randonnee August 9th, 2009 11:09 pm

    Lou said, “See Google map and time stamp, please send law enforcement to trailhead.”

    My experience with USFS here in WA is that they will issue Citations only by their direct observation. I had two guys nailed, talked to the County Sheriff and USFS as I watched these guys track a basin in Alpine Lakes Wilderness, theirs and my rigs were the only ones in the valley. Anyway, USFS would not act on what I saw and recorded. Others have given photographic evidence to USFS of snowmobile Wilderness trespass. However, all of this helped obtain perhaps funding for some USFS Patrols, and I heard of two Citations issued last season, maybe there were more? That is a start.

    As far as the whining and attitude online, very chicken…, how about get involved reporting, documenting, and involving the Authorities. Sack up, kitties, if you see someone break the law have the courage to confront it as a citizen.

  39. Ptor August 10th, 2009 12:55 am

    When a descending skier and a highmarking snowmobile meet in a couloir, each shall veer to the right to avoid collision.

    When a touring skier and a snowmobile are on intersecting trajectories, each shall veer to the right except when traversing a slope where the uphill object shall have right of way.

    When two snowmobiles meet on intersecting courses, the higher cc sled shall give way to the weaker.

    When one or more skiers intersect at the start of a ski-run, the skier with the fattest skis shall go first to avoid desecrating the the run with tiny linked fall-line turns.

    When one or more skiers are on the same uphill trajectory, the skier with the fattest skis must break trail so skiers with fatter skis behind the leader do not have to break trail twice.

    When participating in a blog, why not stick to the subject, you’re violating the bloggers conduct code and not even funny, eh. More hot air here than a Yamazuki 44DDD!!!! C’mon!!!

  40. dave downing August 10th, 2009 8:24 am

    @Randonnee, you definitely sounded “touchy.”

    @Andrew, I thought it was a good addition to the list.

    My rule: If you are touchy by nature, re-read a comment on a funny post and make sure it’s not a joke before getting all wrapped up in a heated debate when others attempt to have a fun, light hearted talk about skiing.


  41. LeeL August 10th, 2009 1:28 pm

    when skiing with canadians

    – use the word sick brah

    – bring a beer in your pack and inhale it at a peak

    – do NOT cut off Ptor unless your name is jonny simms

    – when you see a peak say …. that’s nothing compared to the sickness i saw in whistlah/revy/rogers pass/ …. brah

  42. Lou August 10th, 2009 2:25 pm

    I don’t know where Andrew got the idea here in Colorado we’re hurling lead all over the place (grin), might want to consider places such as Somalia or Los Angeles before categorizing us that way (grin). Perhaps he’s getting back at me for the comment about spooning? True, I’d rather shoot than spoon, or perhaps both?

  43. BigD August 10th, 2009 3:27 pm

    Never really had a dislike for slednecks until I sampled the exhaust fumes spewing from Randonnee’s machine …

  44. Andrew McLean August 10th, 2009 3:37 pm

    That discussion would pretty much crash 🙂

  45. Lou August 10th, 2009 6:53 pm

    I dare you to try and crash me, that’s why I pay big bucks for the dedicated server, haven’t been crashed since early last winter (knock on wood)… but, anything can happen… (smile)

  46. Randonnee August 10th, 2009 9:44 pm

    PC name calling and personal attacks are basically the theme of some of the snomo comments. In some comments there is a touch of imagined group conflict and class warfare eg costs of “toys,” and some of these comments veiled in humor are actually attacks. Yes they were brief, but in the minds of some it is ok to call names and call it humor in that cool fashion. There is some negative characterization done in poor taste. Yeah, call me touchy, etc whatever to stop the discussion, so you think perhaps…. Some of you could try to argue a point or comment about the words eg compare and contrast instead of name call or attack the person.

  47. LeeL August 10th, 2009 10:18 pm

    It’s ok to be all emo Randonee. Somewhere in the mountains it’s probably snowing. BTW – I’m not averse to hitching rides off sleds as long as they don’t run over the rolling papers and empties so hopefully I can join in the andrew-initiated pigpile.

    Hope that that means I’ll still be able to cross the border

  48. Randonnee August 10th, 2009 10:58 pm

    LeeL you forgot the topic again- the topic is not Randonnee, we were talking snowmobiles and I discussed smart- aleck hostile punk comments and endless emotional online snomobile dislike-whining. Are we baiting Randonnee for sport (yep) or are we talking about ideas and issues?

  49. Andrew McLean August 10th, 2009 11:13 pm

    I’m speaking more of a crash of emotions that would require lots of deleted comments and anger many 2nd Amendment fans.

  50. Ptor August 11th, 2009 4:22 am

    When skiing with Americans…

    -understand that everyone’s actual first name is “dude”

    -thank them for the proliferation and evolution of California surf lingo in the Canadian dialect.

    – share your beer with them at the summit, but not too much of it if they’re from a 3.2 state.

    – always use the cliche that it looks just like Alaska when observing a snowy fluted peak, it makes ’em feel better.

    – tell them not to feel so envious because Canada also has puppet leaders and is still actually run by European aristocracy just like the USA.

    -never cut anyone off unless Johnny Simms says it’s OK.

  51. Lou August 11th, 2009 6:30 am

    Andrew, oh, now I get it!

    Ptor, ah, yes, those pesky European aristocracies always running our countries! Wait till we have the North American Union (grin)!

  52. Mark August 11th, 2009 6:57 am

    Shooting…while spooning. Ha!

  53. SB August 11th, 2009 8:21 am

    When arguing with Randonee:

    — Politely remind him that the real topic was humorous skiing rules

  54. Andrew McLean August 11th, 2009 10:22 am

    Randonee – I know we had all agreed to refrain from name calling here, but exactly who are you referring to as a “smart- aleck hostile punk?” And considering could almost be, I’d say there is very little “endless emotional online snomobile dislike-whining.”

    As far as baiting you for sport, I’d say it is more like catching dogfish while fishing for salomon in Puget Sound – the continual strikes on anything that moves are more of a nuisance than anything.

  55. shoveler August 11th, 2009 11:54 am

    I happen to like the mix of voices and subject matter here, including some sled and winter driving stuff now and then. I guess the only thing we’re missing is covering how commercial jets burn fuel and for expedition transportation, but that would probably be to far of topic even for Lou?

    Hey, let’s just all avoid the name calling, please? This is one of the best blogs out there because it doesn’t turn into an ugly fight.

  56. Slave.To.Turns August 11th, 2009 12:04 pm

    -always bring kleenex (and earplugs) for snowmobilers. maybe a dave matthews album. they get quite emotional at times. sometimes they need to hug it out.

    -learn to ditch snowshoers. quickly. fabricated tales of grizzly bears is a great way to do this.

    -tell everyone the PacNW sucks, it always rains and they should, under no circumstance, ever go there. nope, the sun NEVER, EVER shines. not once.

  57. Andrew McLean August 11th, 2009 1:06 pm

    One of my favorite things to do in the backcountry is to decline rides/tows from sledders.


    “Hi! Do you want a ride?”
    – No thanks.

    “Where are you going? It’s a long way to the end of the road.”
    – I’m fine, thanks.

    “It’ll take you an hour to get there.” (time based on a sledder on snowshoes – real time = ten minutes)
    – Thanks very much, but I’m OK.

    “I can give you a tow if you want.” (Sledder is worried about being perceived as a homo by wanting someone to straddle and hold on to him)
    – No, I’m really okay with walking.

    “I have a tow rope.” (sledder assures skier that he/she is prepared for this situation as he/she does this all the time and it is A-OK.)
    – It’s a nice day, thanks.

    “Well, okay then, but there is already a track here.” (sledder is starting to get worried that he/she is a puff-nugget and seeks peer support from exiting tracks)
    – Thanks, but no problem. I’m fine.

    “Ohhhhh kay then. Have a great WALK and a real nice day.” (translation – dirty bag, hippie, loser, idiot, moron, pot-headed liberal, probably voted for that jerk in office.)
    – You too my friend! (translation – see you in ten minutes while you are putting your helmet away and figuring out which way to stick your skins on)

    I think most tourers only accept rides/tows from ‘bilers out of sympathy for the poor sledhead.

  58. dave downing August 11th, 2009 2:05 pm

    @SB — you read my mind with you last comment.

    …and therefore, to keep with the true topic, a new rule:

    — Always check the spring opening time for Indy Pass on your own. Do NOT trust what your partner says 😉

  59. Lou August 11th, 2009 2:22 pm

    Humor at the expense of another person or group is a difficult thing to pull off, I fail at it frequently. Have found that self depreciating humor is much safer and easier, and can be just as funny if done well. Good thing to keep in mind for commenting etc…

  60. Ptor August 11th, 2009 2:51 pm

    When getting a tow from a snowmobiler, always offer them a beer out of your backpack to make friends. You never know when you might need eachother.

  61. Lou August 11th, 2009 6:33 pm

    That’s why I always offer myself a beer (grin).

  62. dave downing August 12th, 2009 12:08 pm

    — never look a sand bagger directly in the eye as they may interpret it as a challenge, and you won’t see them again until you reach the car again.

  63. Dostie August 12th, 2009 3:52 pm

    Andrew M,

    😆 :biggrin: 😆 :silly: 😉 😆 ya’ smart-aleck ol’ lug 😆 😆 😆

  64. southern slosher August 14th, 2009 11:34 am

    Ya’ll are funny, to hear people use a new language that they think they invented but also list rules they think they invented and to list solutions they think…….but seriously, I’m interested in backcountry skiing and that’s why I’m here. To learn. I may be new born but here goes… 1. respect everyboby(some say everything but man have you tried that lately) if you want to. 2. help somebody if you want to. 3.mind your own business, please. 4. Learn something new . 5 If you are standing someplace that you worked hard to get to try not to act like you own it. I’ve enjoyed our time together. That’s what’s up!

  65. Randonnee August 18th, 2009 11:44 pm

    It was about humor, then AM and Dostie started throwing derision- (quotes)

    “.Always carry a gun when exploring the ski potential of Colorado Wilderness areas on your snowmachine.”

    ” There’s a reason we call ‘em slednecks, right?”

    My remark was about the nature of some words here- “smart- aleck cheap punk quips”

    I do not identify with snowmobilers. I am not fond of the punk attitudes showing here. It sounds like a Forum. Leader of the sport, eh? And then some chiming in to find favor, perhaps.

    Fair game to go after other’s words and ideas. But, some of you think that you need to attack me personally because of my words. Sorry, your words had little to no effect and perhaps showed some cowardice and absence of character? Certainly weak words, anyway.

  66. Lou August 19th, 2009 6:28 am

    Some of this stuff slipped by me, apologies to all of you if I fell short on my moderator duties. Everyone, please tone it down. Main thing to remember is that humor at the expense of another person or user group is the lazy way out. Yeah, that’s the common currency of the endless stream of negativity coming from mainstream entertainment media, but copying those guys is optional.

  67. Lou August 19th, 2009 6:42 am

    I missed Andrew’s comment about doing a snowmobile opinion guest blog. I’ll ask him about that.

    Been super busy working all the “back end” stuff for this website, which is my usual summer… I’m more on the case now…

  68. mb August 19th, 2009 10:44 pm

    Lou — your moderating is fine. I am gob-smacked by how sensitive Randonnee is, especially since the original comments were not even directed at him. And then he comes back with

    “I do not appreciate the name calling (mainly because we cannot go at it here)”

    Randonnee — by that do you mean you might be OK if you could “go at it” with Andrew and Dostie in a parking lot somewhere?

  69. Randonnee August 19th, 2009 11:29 pm

    It is a discussion, a debate. There is history here of the same words from the same folks, including me. As far as going at it, I can sling words in a fashion that is not ok here, so I try to refrain. Sensitive, no, but not backing down. There is this line from a few self-anointed of PC trashing of folks who use snowmobiles. Earlier this year another here contributed some incredibly emotional whining on the topic of snowmobiles. However, some play by the 8th grade double standard, side with who is cool. Leadership of the sport, eh?

  70. CookieMonster August 20th, 2009 3:01 am

    Randonnee is a perfectly nice guy. Unlike probably most everyone here, I’ve actually skiied with him. He’s smart and respectful and generous.

    It’s very obvious that some of the participants of this discussion are extremely biased against snowmobile riders – no problem – carrying bias around is like eating sour cherry pie: feel free to enjoy every bite if it’s your thing.

    I spent a lot of time with snowmobilers last winter, and I found that, while some of the stereotypes have a bit of truth, they are by and large a very decent crowd.

    It’s also worth mentioning that the hard core mountain climbers had the same reaction to the skiers, when the recreational backcountry skiers started visting the mountains in wintertime: “what are they doing here” and “they’re going to get killed” and “there is an entire mountain range here and they want to ski here”.

    Now the skiers are having the same reaction: “what are they doing here” and “those noobs are going to get killed” and “there is an entire mountain range here and they want to ski here”. Can you even imagine the outcry if a group of mountaineers actually tried to block access for skiers?

    And please, let’s not rattle on and on about motorised vs. non-motorised access. I recently read a trip report about a big mountain in Alaska that was accessed by a small aeroplane. Those small planes are nothing more than snowmobiles with wings. We all use motorised access *when it suits us*. Motorised access just happens to suit some people more of the time.

    A lot of the skier -vs- snowmobile debate boils down to useless snobbery and worthless arguments.

    Who’s the bigger hypocrite?

    How about all of us?

  71. Dostie August 20th, 2009 6:59 am

    Humor is ALWAYS at the expense of someone/something. I’ve never known it not to be. Unfortunately, humor in writing in an age where we’re supposed to be tolerant always produces intolerance from those demanding tolerance because they’re eyes can’t see humor, only their ears. Too bad.

    For the record, if I had a sled, I’d be a sledneck. But I don’t, nor do I consider it much of an insult, just a friendly jab to refer to someone that way, just as I consider myself a pinhead (‘cuz I use telemark gear), and friends like Lou use training heels. Insulting terms, but used on purpose to elicit a friendly grimmace, perhaps even a smile, and a jab back. :tongue:

  72. Lou August 20th, 2009 7:01 am

    I was thinking about this stuff this A.M. and realized that the reverse of Andrew’s story also occurs. When? Well, a heck of a lot of incompetent backcountry skiers have been rescued by volunteers using, you guessed it, snowmobiles! When I was volunteering for Mountain Rescue Aspen I saw it a number of times, and heard dozens of stories. Same goes for helicopters. In fact, I only recall a few rescues that were really human powered, usually just “walk outs” where the advance team found a victim that was simply lost and could be hiked out.

    My point? Incompetence and buffoonery exist in all sports and activities. Sure, you can seek it out and make fun of it, but let’s see if another bold person here can simply make fun of ourselves?

    Ptor made a good start in his “American skiers” post above.

    I might have let this string of comments get a bit out of hand. I’ll let it run without being too heavy, but I’d appreciate it if you guys could self moderate a bit more and just be nicer.

    Regarding who this applies to, If the shoe fits, wear it.

    Really, everyone, just try to imagine that you’re all together skiing for the day, and trying to be sensitive to everyone’s interests and backgrounds.

  73. Lou August 20th, 2009 7:09 am

    Dostie, yeah, you just have to be sensitive to how other people take the terminology. Context is a big part of it.

    Like I’ve said before, where I think some of the sensitivity comes from is that those of us who own and use snowmobiles don’t like to be lumped into a category we really don’t belong in. Sure, I didn’t see that being overtly done, but the implication is there if you’re sensitive about it. I’m probably guilty of flaunting my motorheadism to get a rise out of some folks, but that’s all in fun and I can take the resulting crit. Even so, I do resent the assumption that I’m somehow strongly connected to the snowmobile culture just because I own a sled.

    I do live in Western Colorado and known tons of snowmobilers because a ton of people who live here snowmobile, but it’s not like were some big club or something and they’re all over here reading WildSnow to get the latest ethical wisdom. In fact, most snowmobilers around here just stick to the groomed sled trails and tool around with their families and friends on weekends, to them not much of big deal at all, just sort of a day-to-day part of life.

  74. Lou August 20th, 2009 7:21 am

    I just had an idea, about dissing ourselves to get some laughs. How about more along the lines of “When skiing in Colorado…” or “When backcountry skiing in France…” “When ski mountaineering in the Tetons…”

    I could see a whole series of those. Andrew? Dostie? Rando? Ptor? Everyone? Come on you guys!

  75. Mark August 20th, 2009 7:55 am

    I want to go skiing in Pemberton. I’m American. Does this mean I should keep my passport at the ready in my beacon pocket at all times?

  76. Randonnee August 20th, 2009 8:41 am

    RRC*Rule #1- When skiing with Randonnee transceivers will not be turned on during the safe-route ascent because they interfere with the AM radio station reception of Rush Limbaugh. : )}

    *Republican Randonnee Club

  77. Lou August 20th, 2009 11:32 am

    Democracy Now or Rush, either one can compromise avalanche safety! :angel:

  78. ScottP August 20th, 2009 12:48 pm

    When discussing topics in mixed company, one should avoid politics, religion and snowmobiles. Making fun of telemarkers, however, is still perfectly acceptable. Because no matter how you look at it, telemarking is a silly way to get down the hill ;).

  79. Cameron Stewart August 20th, 2009 2:03 pm

    Hey Brahs – No backcountry set-up is complete without a Toyota Tundra pick-up (preferably dark green), hardtop and custom made wood sleeping bed to store gear under. Bonus points if you can modify the bed to fit your single speed 29er hard tail in the back during the summer months.

  80. Cameron Stewart August 20th, 2009 2:28 pm

    – No drive to the Sierras is complete without at least one stop at In-n-Out.

    – I promise to use every possible word for “snow” other than “snow” (such as ‘that pow was sick, brah!’ or ‘that was some rad ‘face shots!’ or ‘I love to ski mashed patatoes’).

  81. Cameron Stewart August 20th, 2009 2:54 pm

    – I will never make non-skiing plans more than 24 hours in advance from January to April, because you never know when it is going to be a blue-bird pow day in the mountains (from April-June it should be assumed all weekends are booked for the backcountry, no need to ask).

  82. Dostie August 21st, 2009 9:58 pm

    Lou, Rando, et al,

    The REAL problem with my attempt at humor was it just wasn’t that funny so it was easy to misinterpret as an attack.

    So….Backcountry Rule #106 – If you can’t tell a good joke, shut your mouth and laugh at somebody elses. :blush:

  83. Bill January 4th, 2010 10:34 am

    Are we north easters(adarondack park high peaks) considersd bark eaters if we don’t actually eat it? :sick:

  84. Lou January 4th, 2010 11:26 am

    Bill, I don’t know, but can we convert that to an item for the code of conduct? Like “If one skis in the North East they shall eat bark?”

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