Please note: On July 15, 2016 Dynafit issued a recall notice for all Khion boots in North America. See this blog post for up-to-date details.
Dynafit Khion Carbon backcountry skiing boot.
We get tired of dog food and water bottles — stuff that seems to be the main currency of summer here at the trade show. Thus we do appreciate when a company brings some of their new backcountry skiing product to summer OR. I had fun going over the production version Dynafit Khion boot at the Salewa booth. We’ve covered the Khion before, but sharing a bit more about this design intensive boot seems wise. (Note that Khion comes in Carbon version and non-carbon, Khion Carbon is depicted here.)
First question that comes up about Khion is “how does this fit with the Vulcan in terms of shopping comparo?” Don’t over think it. You’re comparing walnuts to coffee beans. Vulcan is a tongue “cabrio” boot (meaning it closes with a vertical external tongue that provides forward support). Khion is an overlap shell boot.
Cabrio boots can be super stiff but they never have the smooth progressive cuff flex of a well designed overlap boot. Overlaps are harder to get into, and usually slightly heavier in equivalent flex if compared to a cabrio boot. Both types of boots can have good cuff mobility in ski touring mode, as both these models do (though I noticed in hand check that the Khion has light resistance to rearward flex in touring mode, which might easily be modded out.)
Funny thing, in my mind the biggest difference between Vulcan and Khion might simply be the boot buckles. Vulcan uses the same “Ultralock” type cuff lock as TLT 5/6. I like that system, but it does result in having a buckle sticking out to the side when in touring mode. Khion instead uses a clever mode/lean latch that’s quite small, pushes up against the cuff, and has near as I can tell zero play. More, Vulcan has the instep buckle on the side, while all the Khion buckles are up and out of the way on top of their respective area of the boot shell.
Bear in mind this blogpost is still a teaser; we’ll get more up about the Khion as fall and winter progress and we do real testing rather than quickie.
Another view of Khion showing aggressive sole lugging. Note that even with this thick sole, Dynafit has not figured out a way to thicken the vulnerable sole area just below the tech fittings at the toe.
Khion has these aggro bump stops, aka hard stops molded into the shell cuff. Note the right side of the overlap having a higher area with a handle grip hole. This helps with opening the overlap for entry and exit.
Interestingly, a removable and cushioned hard stop is also included. Note you could remove this as well as grinding out the molded stops in order to ease the cuff flex.
A couple more buckle related features: Upper two cuff buckles have three positions, and switch to the loosest setting with a tap of the hand. Lower buckles have magnets that hold them from flopping around when loose. I can see this being nice in a hut, but the magnets didn’t seem powerful enough to prevent snow from pulling the buckles open. It’s obvious a lot of thought went into the Khion buckles, overall super nice.
Now for the teaser continuation.
We still think the sweet spot in Dynafit’s extensive ski touring binding collection could be the new Superlite 2.0 (which we want to call the Green Machine 2.0). The removable brake intrigues us, and the weight is down there at 175 grams. Burning questions are, will the lowest heel lift position be low enough and will the fixed release value settings be good for most people, or will fiddling around with swapping the binding heel spring turn folks off? If the scene in Europe is any indication, you guys won’t care about those things and we’ll be seeing these installed on a record number of skis.
Superlite 2.0 Dynafit ski touring binding.
View from top showing U shaped spring that provides vertical release.
Heel from the side.
Looking underneath heel reveals internals for removable brake.
More here regarding TLT Superlite 2.0 heel lift and such.
58 comments
“Note that even with this thick sole, Dynafit has not figured out a way to thicken the vulnerable sole area just below the tech fittings at the toe.”
IMO: The front section of the sole rubber should be a separately engineered hunk of rubber that is replaceable by the user; i.e. a guy should be able to grind it off, and shoe goo on a new piece. Thick or thin, hard or soft; every incarnation of sole rubber has worn right through the rubber and the plastic and into the metal insert material itself on my higher mileage boots…starting with the tlt 4s back in the day till now. Yes, I did/do hike a lot in them.
Lou, is the LTL SuperLite 2.0 hole pattern the same as the standard Radical? ie, can I swap these with my Radicals once available without redrilling? (Fingers crossed)
…dave
“First question that comes up about Khion is “how does this fit with the Vulcan?” Don’t over think it. You’re comparing walnuts to coffee beans. Vulcan is a tongue “cabrio” boot (meaning it closes with a vertical external tongue that provides forward support). Khion is an overlap shell boot.”
Is that not speaking to the difference between flex for an overlap vs cabrio ?
but how does the Khion fit a foot compared to the vulcan?
xer, Apology for my vague writing, by “fit” I simply mean how the Khion compares to the Vulcan in terms of shopping, in other words an overall comparo. I’ve been getting a lot of questions like “why did they make Khion when Vulcan is available?” Again, main answer is Khion is overlap and Vulcan is cabrio. A world of difference. Lou
I really like the Superlite 2.0 and want to sell it (and maybe own it). Khion sounds really nice as well.
db – Even if the pattern were the same, it would highly unlikely your heel gap would be correct and the Superlites aren’t adjustable fore/aft.
Is the Superlite 2.0 only sold with brakes? Would rather not pay for something I don’t use.
Lou in the earlier review you mention rotating the binding half way for a flat touring mode. Am I interpreting it correctly that there is no stop half way and it could auto-rotate?
Lee, the Superlite 2.0 will be sold without brakes for the $550 that the original was sold for. Brakes are an additional $80 but it’s up to you.
I don’t think it is designed to have a flat touring mode though.
Lee yeah as far as I could tell it doesnt have an “official” perfectly flat touring mode, but it’s fairly low at the heel at lowest setting and of course the longer your boot sole length the lower it will feel. There also might be some mods. Will be fun to play around with. Lou
Yeah I figured you were comparing cabrio vs overlap
the Vulcan/Mercury/ONE have been out 3 yrs so I would think Dyna has to bring something new to the market place and thats the Khion to replace the Vulcan which then has to be liquidated SO I picked up last years Vulcan VERY cheap
My sources told me the Khion was going to fit different than the merc/vulcan which were already working for my feet so … good time to refresh
Hi Lou, I am also interested in the fit of the Khion. My foot doesn’t fit the Vulcan, my foots too wide at the front and instep too high.
The Khion looks as though it’s a bit roomier. What is the last and how well will it mould?
@DavidB and XXX_er: The prototype I tried on last spring felt slightly narrower and quite a bit less tall in the toebox than the Vulcan/Mercury, and considerably taller in the instep. Midfoot and heel felt similar, but with the liner they were showing the heel hold was tenacious – it took some effort to get my foot out of the boot. I tried on the 27 shell and thought I could well size down to a 26 (I wear a 27.5 in a Mercury/TLT6, but normally a 26.5 alpine boot).
I talked to Giordano (the guy with the glasses in Lou’s photo at the Dynafit booth, and product manager for footwear at Dynafit) and mentioned that I was interested in how easy it would be to punch the Pebax shells in the Khion and other 2016 Dynafit boots, since the Grilamid shells in their earlier boots were quite easy to work with. He didn’t really answer me directly, saying that they chose Pebax for its rebound characteristics more than ease of modification. Apparently the boot they traveled with to OR was the only production example, so chances are no one has tried to punch one yet.
PS If I understand Giordano correctly, the production last is generally the same as the prototype, with some tweaks like the “prepunched” area around the fifth met heads. So fit would depend on how well your foot agrees with their idea of where to put that “prepunch” and how big to make it. I didn’t get to try on the sample as they were getting around town by cab and didn’t have it with them.
Is the Speed Superlite 2.0 losing the adjustable release that the current Speed Superlite has?
Yes, swap in a spring to change it, original design, pretty cool…
Hi Lou,
I still have a fundamental doubt in between the new Khion and the revamped Vulcan
And yes I understand the cabrio and overlap issue … yes.
But beyond this relevant difference, in terms of skiing capabilities, do you consider the performance could be equivalent? Looking at the 2016 dynafit Catalog seems that the Vulcan is positioned more “freeride downhill” than Khion. But after reading many reviews It doesn’t seem so evident to me. Could be Khion a good freeride Boot comparable to Scarpa Freedorm?
Thanks!
August, my educated guess is that the Pebax version of Freedom might still feel slightly more beefy due to what might be a slightly higher cuff, but both Pebax Freedom and Khion would work as a freeride boot, provided by “freeride” you mean freeride touring. If you’re talking about lift skiing the PU Freedom is still more “alpine boot” like, in my opinion.
Suggestion: When inquiring about gear here on WildSnow, get more specific about what you actually want to use it for. Especially when trying to compare products. And don’t expect a magic bullet, even though Obewhanskinoobie and his minions do their best to know all.
P.S., I’d add that when put into service for aggressive downhill skiing, especially lift served, Pebax just can’t equal PU in feel and performance — not to mention ease of shell customization.
Lou
Hi Lou,
Sorry, you are right I’m looking for the magic bullet and probably I have sound quite tough.
I mean free touring. I do 70% off slope and 30% pure turing
I have two pairs of skis and boots, ones for offslope (ZAG+marker Tour + Salomon Quest Pebax) and another one for Pure touring (movement+Dynafit+Garmont Orbit)
Like many other people, I suffer that what it’s good for down limits you on up, and the inverse.
This year I’m trying to unify my boots in only one which could be right for all purposes (70% down – 30% up). Vulcan a good and known product. Scarpa are bulky, I agree. But probably I prefer overlap boots, so new Khion look really nice and innovative, but I hesitate if they right for what I want
Thanks for your answer
Hi August, you will never find the boot that does both up and down to your exact specifications and habits, instead, you will always have to adjust with your body. The question is, how much do you want to adjust, and what part of your body? Lots of folks do this, and when they get it right they do find a rig that “does it all,” but again, not until they learn to compromise by adjusting technique or getting stronger.
In other words, there will always be a lighter boot that’s easier on the up, and a heavier boot that offers more “beef” for the down. This is not going to stop in the foreseeable future.
So, is Khion a good compromise with more emphasis on the down? Yes. But it is not an alpine ski boot. It is a touring boot. I’d say if you compare it to Freedom Pebax, you’d be best just to get the one that fits best. Switch to comparison with a PU overlap boot, and you are in the realm of comparing apples to peaches.
Lou
Hey Lou, do you understand the rationale behind dynafit designing some boots without booster straps. Personally I like them but see that dynafit have not used these on the Khion and some of their race boots. Thanks.
Welllll, assuming they actually do sell the boot without a booster strap (perhaps it’s optional and just left out of the photo?) for some time myself and a lot of other ski tourers have been fed up with fiddly sticky velcro power booster straps that feel like 1970s technology. We often remove them. Depends on the boot and style of skiing. For example I left them on my Atomic boots as without using the optional tongue the boot just wasn’t closing tight and snug enough around my upper ankle and leg. With Dynafit TLT 5/6 I ditch the power straps.
To put it simply, “booster” “power” straps are often over rated in terms of what they do, and calling them those names is a bit overstated in comparison to a buckle that provides much firmer and tighter action with less effort.
Dynafit probably has some sort of fancy explanation, but to restate, a good system of buckle, along with tight BOA liner lacing and a good fit makes the booster strap psychological for many people. And a booster strap can easily be added on.
Lou
Didn’t notice the lack of power strap until it was pointed out, between the boa dial and the high shell with 2 buckles I don’t see anywhere to put a booster strap in the design, I leave them off for touring, I might use them for the hill
I’ve just had a look at the updated Dynafit website for the new bindings and boots, and it appears they have found some new colors. The new binding anodizing looks quite tasteful, but the boots are a little more exotic, in particular the Vulcan and TLT 6’s.
I have installed at least 6-7 sets of Dynafit speeds, FT etc in my wood shop. Thinking about a set of superlite 1.0 on sale. If I do a test install once or twice on some plywood, would that give me enough experience to go ahead and do the deed on the real ski? Or is this a super tricky install? Thanks!
Oh, is two nickels the correct gap? Thanks!
Hi lou
regardless of the shape technology (cabrio or overlap) which one of vulcan and khion is the stiffer one? are they almost on the same level or is the vulcan still the stiffest ‘downhill’ alpine boot?
Thx for your feedback….Daniel
Hi Daniel, IMHO the Vulcan is stiffer, but only because it doesn’t flex (grin). The question you should be asking yourself is how stiff a boot do you really want or need in a touring boot? If you’ve never been happy with any boot, it might be time to modify boots or modify your technique. Lou
IMHO the Vulcan flex hits you sooner, but the Khion has more resistance to “bottoming out” – though I really have to throw myself at both boots to get them to flex at 170 lbs. or so.
Whats the width of the boot like? I have narrow feet and been on Saloman Quest 130s and they are horrendous boots so am splashing out on some new ones this season. How still are these? Im 200b in my gear and ski aggressively. Thanks
Bought me a TLT 6 Mountain CR at a major local dealer in Munich, Germany. While I was there the sales guy asked me to try a Khion just to give my opinion. When I couldn’t even get my foot into it, he told me that they’re going to send them all back to Dynafit since 7 out of 10 people don’t get their feet into these…
Yes, the Khion Carbon is hard to get in to and out of – I think part of the problem is the BOA doesn’t seem to open quite wide enough. Once in, I think the fit will suit many people better (taller instep and more relaxed midfoot volume) and it’s race boot stiff (if that’s what you like). The MS model is more user friendly and has a flex that would work better for me as well.
I remember from demo they were tight, but worked. Would be difficult during an expedition in a tent (so are many other boots), but otherwise perhaps just a bit of boot fitter work on the liner would take care of any entry hassle? Lou
Maybe, maybe not. Speaking of liners, the sales guy took one out of a Khion and explained to me that those demoed were better made than those that are being shipped now.
Sheesh, I hope that’s not true… I guess this “sales guy” didn’t want to sell Khion! Lou
Consider last years liners also sucked also were unusable so it doesn’t change the game one bit so we the Dynafit customer are still just buying a really expensive shell. All dynafit has to do is source their liners from intuition and I bet they would sell more boots, have many more happy customers, I can say without a doubt if the Maestrale RS fit me i would have bought them in a heartbeat … my decision to buy last years Vulcans at 65% off is looking better all the time !
“Cabrio boots can be super stiff but they never have the smooth progressive cuff flex of a well designed overlap boot”
Seriously? Wow… just… Wow….
Lou – what’s the difference between the liners in a 26.0 vs. a 26.5? I know the shell is the same, but I can’t seem to get a straight answer when it comes to the liners. In general, do AT boot companies make different liners for their 1/2 sizes or is the difference simply a thicker (removable) footbed in the smaller of the two? Thanks for clearing this up!
Hi Cascade, usually the liner is simply pre-molded to be a little longer for the larger size. Sometimes if they do a “true half size” the liner is stitched up with slightly longer area at toes. Only way to know for sure is to compare liners from a couple of different boots. Thing is, it doesn’t matter. If they say it’s a 27.5 liner in a 27.5 shell, then you’ll have room if your foot needs 27.5 length.
If you are shopping for a specific brand/model and for some reason you need to know the exact difference between liners for a half-size, simply go to a ski shop and ask, or ask here and if it’s critical I can research for you. Or perhaps a shop rat will chime in.
For what it’s worth, when a boot has a liner shorter than the actual shell, such as when a 27 liner is used in a 27.5 shell, it’s said to be “short lasted.” This can be either a non-issue, a pro or a con depending on what you’re trying to do with your boot fitter.
I don’t recall a stock boot using a thicker footbed in a claimed different size for the same shell, but I suppose it could have happened or is happening. Not with any ski touring boots I know of.
Lou
I heard A rumor that Dynafit is replacing the ski/walk mechanism lever and the laces on the liners due to inadvertent transitions to walk mode during heavy flexing on the former, and difficulty getting into the boot with the latter. Any truth to this?
Cascadescl,
Not exactly, but yes.
Theyre putting a smal plastic piece on the lever. I dunno why, but it’s tre that they’re recallig the boots from the stores to make this change.
Y dunno nothing about the laces
So who ahs the sizing sorted? Same as a Mercury/Vulcan or a TLT6? For best results I am a 28 shell in the Mercury and a 29 shell in the TLT6. I can use a 28 shell in a TLT6 but it is really tight.
Curious how the new last is going to fit so I can order.
Hi Folks. Just got ours in at the shop. Found THE KEY to getting into them. After struggling mightily to get a warm boot on….I pulled the liner, put it on my foot, THEN slid into the shell like BUTTER. Yes! BUTTER! Didn’t go in as easy the second attempt, so it does require technique. “…loss of flexiblilty is a small price to pay for such pumptitude! Yah!”-Hans & Franz.
Yes the Khion’s are comically hard to get on. Like. Really. Hard! But in the fine print in the little instruction book attached to the boot it says to put the liner on first – then slide your foot into the boot. It’s still no picnic and getting the liner tongue to fit properly is not easy. And be forewarned the instep pinch is serious!
At far as fit – I noticed the Khion’s boot sole length runs smaller than other boots with similar mondo point sizing. The 26/26.5 is 300mm. A typical 26.5 is more commonly around 305mm. The 27/27.5 khion is 310mm. Evo.com has a handy chart with boot sole lengths and respective mondo sizes for about every boot out there.
Hope this helps some folks.
I’m having an issue with my khion carbons and curious to see if other people are having same problem. Note: this is with the ‘upgraded’ walk/ski part installed.
When the boot is flexed hard, the walk/ski assembly seems to shift to the left with a clicking noise. It doesn’t disengage from ski mode but seems to lose some resistance in the forward flex. I sent a video to dynafit n.a. But they say without having the boot in hand to look at there’s nothing they can do. Hoping to hear from others with this problem. Thanks
I’m unable to get the top buckle on the Khion tight enough. Anyone else have this issue? It seems the cables are about an inch too long. I do have skinny calves but have never had this issue with any other boot I’ve owned, backcountry or alpine.
Brandon there are multiple holes in the shell to put those buckle into have you tried changing them?
XXX_er, it is maxed out on the shell holes. I have owned 6-7 different models of Dynafit boots and multiple alpine boots and this is the first time I’ve had this issue. Dynafit had no answers and have no plans to make a shorter buckle. Thinking of just removing the top buckle and replacing with a booster strap. Was just wondering if others have had a similar problem since it is so evident with mine.
Once again, I can’t help thinking it is strange that boot makers continue to offer exotic features but only a single fit option. Tooling costs don’t begin to explain.
Off the top of my head I would say an intuition liner might take up that extra space??
Hey, I don’t intend to sound trite but this is a standard boot fitting problem that involves moving buckles and adding high density foam to the liner cuff. Lou
I have the same issue as you xxx-er. Not really a big deal since I use them with zipfits, but I contacted dynafit in case I want to use them with oem liners. They don’t offer shorter buckles. I was thinking to ask dynafit to send me a replacement for the second buckle (the adjustable one), which is much shorter.
As for getting in the boot? These are the easiest boots to put on, even easier than any tongue boot. You have to spread the shell. Pull it apart hard. Pulling out the liner and inserting the foot with it makes it easier, but it’s not necessary. Just look up how to put lace-up racing boots on.
I just picked up a pair of Khion boots. Boot fitter widened the liner at the outside (pinkie) toe knuckle and navicular bone – both of which are pronounced on my feet – during the heat mold process. Toured/skied all day, returned to shop and had them punch out those same spots on the actual boot. The fit is now perfect. (for ref: I have extremely flat feet with above average width and those two pronounced bones on each foot).
Notes on performance:
+Cuff mobility when touring is incredible.
+Walk/Ski latch systems feels secure and is easy to operate.
+Soles are great for hiking/scrambling…deep lugs.
+Plenty stiff and responsive on the downhill to power my K2 133/102/127 skis through heavy powder.
+There’s definitely a forward lean in these boots. Not an issue for me because I use a tow riser on my speed radical bindings to minimize ramp angle…but something to watch for depending on your technique.
+Nice progressive flex and buckle position along the shin. For me, no chance of shin issues when skiing hard or taking a drop.
+I found it much easier to get in/out of boots when in walk mode. *yes, instruction manual recommends to remove liner from shell to put on the boot.
Hi have been looking far and wide for a real review of the Khion. It seems nobody has actually been able to ride the Khion and then write up a review.
I have put in 200,000′ vert of uphill and 20days on the Khion non carbon. I had a ton of issues. Some were specific to me others were flaws in boot design.
I am 5’11” 150lbs. I have skied backcountry days in Dynafit Vulcans and and 100 backcountry days in Dynafit Titans before that.
I’ll begin with things specific to me. I have very narrow calls and before I even used the boots once I had to drill new holes to move the buckles tighter. Because of this the buckle walk mode really never worked. I always had to fully unbuckle the boots to get a walk mode. Additionally the forward lean on the boot is pretty upright. I was able to shim the back of the liner and that helped some, but did not solve the problem.
Now on to issues with the boot itself… The rear walk mode system just doesn’t work. On the uphill it gets caught on itself. I read all about how much you can point your toe. I found this not to be true. If I took the outer cuffs and bent them under the inner cuffs I was given the full walk mode, but this really doesn’t work in practice. On the downhill the skimode will flip out of place and go into walk mode. I talked to a few other people with this problem. I took to voile strapping the ski mode in place… Not ideal. It would not surprise me is Dynafit has to recall the boot (a la scrapa f1 evo) because the walk mode doesn’t hold.
Lastly, and this may be because I had the non carbon version, the boot is pretty soft compared to the Vulcan. I was albe to flex straight through the boot and bend the plastic at the bed near the ankle.
I would love to see wild snow do a review of this boot, as like I said above everything I found online was essentially just a rewrite of the Dynafit tech specs and press release. I think this boot had the potential to be good, but just fell very short, especially when compared to the Vulcan/Mercury.
Thanks for the real world feedback Aaron. I, and am sure many others have been patiently awaiting some feedback based on actual user, not just reviewer, observations.
Outstanding intel Aaron. Sounds like a serious downgrade from the Vulcan.
Lee Lau did a review comparing Vulcan to khion in tgr tech talk
I seem to remember he called it a side country boot?
Guys, we don’t review everything and we generally stick to reviewing stuff we like. That’s just the way we work, for better or worse. Khion is interesting but people have a real problem getting it on and off their feet, including myself. With so many other great boots out there (including from Dynafit), I didn’t see Khion as worth our time reviewing. Considering all that, one thing to remember about WildSnow is we tend to ignore gear we don’t like. For us, with so many wonderful things to do and places to go, life is too short to do otherwise.
I’d add that my son Louie said the “Vulcan is the best boot I’ve ever skied,” (Meaning the best freeride touring boot.) He’s generally in the Maestrale RS because that’s what replaced a Vulcan, but he said he’d be rocking the Vulcans as well, if he could. Vulcan is discontinued and we prefer our Wildsnow bloggers to use gear that’s in production, so he’ll probably stick with Maestrale for the time being. But you never know. As I said, quite a bit of good stuff out there when it comes to boots.
Lou
Hello,
One question, I found them at a really got deal. I have a Salomon Guardian MNC binding. Do they fit together?
Thanks
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