Scarpa F1 Evo is in a voluntary recall.
We’re sorry to have to bring this news, but at least Scarpa is dealing with what in my view is a pretty rare problem, but nonetheless a serious problem if it happens, in a mature and aggressive style that bespokes their commitment to quality. An interesting issue with this will be the fact that a lot of people really like the Evo ski touring boot, and have no problems with it, one wonders if getting all of them returned will be possible.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE.
SCARPA Voluntary and Precautionary Recall of F1 Evo ski boots with Tronic SystemFeb. 2, 2015 – SCARPA has elected to voluntarily recall all F1 EVO ski boots.
SCARPA is asking all retailers and consumers who have purchased Fall 2014 F1 Evo ski boots with the Tronic System to cease using them immediately and return them to SCARPA as soon as possible for a refund.
It appears that given a rare combination of conditions and circumstances, the boot may unexpectedly switch from ski mode to walk mode, which increases the skier’s likelihood of falling.
For North American consumers, please cease using the boots immediately and return them as soon as possible to the point of original purchase for a refund. For North American dealers, please cease any further sales of the boots and contact SCARPA at (866) 998-2895 to set up a return and refund.
Thank you in advance, and SCARPA apologizes for any inconvenience this has caused our customers or retailers.
For backstory, please see our WildSnow Scarpa Tronic posts.
68 comments
Is this the end of the tronic system? Maybe they will release the boot with a manual ski/walk mode switch next season.
It is not clear what the specific issue is? Also is the ladies version included?
Hmm, I think I may have had this happen to me this past weekend. I was clipped into my bindings (Dynafit Speed Radical), slowly winding through some dense trees and suddenly my one boot was in walk mode. I couldn’t figure out why, so I just popped it out then back in and it was fine. It was the first time it had happen so I didn’t think much about it at the time. Thankfully I was going slow so there was no real risk of injury or anything. It’s too bad because I’m loving the boots so far.
On a related note, don’t these boots have a fairly short sole length? It seems that my older Dynafit TLT5 boots of the same Mondo size are significantly longer. I had my bindings mounted specifically for the F1 Evo boots but now the ski/binding combo may not work well (or at all) with different boots with a longer sole length. Not good.
David, I’m pretty sure the women’s ver is included, same mechanism. But I’ll ask. Hard to know what the exact mechanical issue is. Check out my previous posts that include the take-apart. It’s a sensitive system that could be prone to icing for all I know. I never had a problem in my own testing, but I didn’t ski it many days. I recall getting a comment on the blog or hearing about this, and that it sounded so rare as to be the same thing as other boots that have occasionally had problems with the lean lock. But now that I think about it, a boot that slips _out_ of lock mode is a lot more serious than one that has trouble switching _to_ lock mode, which is the case with most other problems I’ve heard of. Lou
Landon, yes, they’re short. Dynafit TLT will probably fit, or you might be able to adjust binding length enough for another boot.
Perhaps this is more common of a problem than I think it was, and everyone was just dealing with it. But when this long-travel cuff boots go into walk mode while you’re pressuring the rear of your boot, you’re going to know it.
Women’s versión is definitely included.
In Spain, Scarpa send this to us: http://www.barrabes.com/images/actualidad/large/12582.jpg
(in spanish)
Just spent my third day in these boot really enjoying them. After using the bd prime boots for the past 4 seasons, these f1 were very nice. It was my first boot with 60deg cuff rotation. Long strides really like the range of motion. Just off the thunderbolt ski run here in Massachusetts 6. Deg out blowing wind boots worked great, snow still dumping going for round two this afternoon better enjoy the boots before they have to go back? or can I just keep the tronic system properly lubercated ?
Thanks Pablo! Josh, anything that could cause you to fall while skiing should be eliminated if at all possible. You knew that was the answer. Sorry. Lou
I have about 40,000 vertical on a F1 evo/ Movement Goldfish/ Speed Superlight c-one setup with no problems whatsoever. However, I wonder if it this problem could be prevented by reducing the heel piece gap to 4 or 4.5 mm?
IMHO the more serious problem is being effectively locked into the binding when this happens due to the forward pressure on the toe due to the heel pins pressing into the tronic flap. This can happen in such a way where the boot is in ski mode the flap has half fallen down and effectively locked out a safe release. See my write up of this issue at the end of the F1 review that Lou did.
Here’s Michael’s take on it in this article from Wildsnow https://www.wildsnow.com/12065/scarpa-f1-evo-review-ski-boot/
“So as far as I can tell the tronic system has some serious problems.
So I was meadow skipping some nice bottomless Wasatch powder today, all 140 lbs of me, and I kept going into walk mode on my brand new Evo’s. When I tried to get of the bindings to ‘reset’ the boot the toe piece was locked up. I thought maybe all that powder was packed under the toe piece.
So tonight back in the man cave I played around with my boots/bindings a bit.
If I put the boot in the ski, flip the ski upside down and apply a little pressure to the bottom (~30 lbs, not that much) the pins slide out of the tech binding enough to cause the tronic switch to slide down (even with no pressure on the boot). When the ski returns to normal flex the tronic flap jams the pins back and buts a ton of forward pressure on the toe piece, making it almost impossible to get out of the binding.
I put some pics up on teton showing the issue (feel free to grab the pics if you want them over here)
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/284791-Scarpa-F1-Evo-thread?p=4390624&posted=1#post4390624”
This recalls also extends to the woman’s version of the boot
Thinking of the many times I forgot to put the darn boots INTO ski mode, and then skied woods, bumps, whatever…
(Another manufacturers’s boots, however. Maybe I can get a recall started?)
“When the ski returns to normal flex the tronic flap jams the pins back and buts a ton of forward pressure on the toe piece, making it almost impossible to get out of the binding.”
Now that sounds like the real problem…
I had a pair of these that I fooled with a bit at home before returning.. Fantastic boot in many respects but there was more than one report of issues with the cuff lock system.
Additionally this boot had terrible compatibility with numerous crampons. People were relegated to full basket crampons/very specific models. That’s inexcusable for a boot with heel and toe welts intended for bc-sking/skimo.
I bought some F1 evos at the beginning of the season, and I must say they walked like a dream, but did not ski as well as my first generation Maestrale. I found the F1 evo to be stiffer and have a more rigid flex then my old orange boots. Nonetheless I ended up returning them about a month ago due to the issue of the tronic system failing. The first time it happened while I was skiing fast through trees and skipped over a log. It was a fairly hard impact and caused the tronic system to unlock. About a week later I was rappelling into a chute to investegate conditions. Things seemed good, I came off the rope and made a turn, and promptly found a boot to be unlocked. This time their was no impact to speak off, but it was a precarious place to have to take a ski off. Need less to say I returned the boots the following day. Both times I had to ‘cycle’ the binding system to get the boot into ski mode. I hope this system continues to progress, as these boots were INCREDIBLE on the up, and not half bad on the down.
Whoa. That’s a bummer. Sorry to infer that Scarpa couldn’t come up with an in-field fix. That locking system is innovative.
My buddy has had this problem with these boots many times this already this year. I would not want to see him skiing with them in a no-fall situation.
Bummer. Really big bummer.
I have precisely one day on my new F1 Evo’s. I wasn’t thrilled about the crampon compatibility, but I like everything else about them so much better than my TLT6’s, most importantly the fit. I was take-it or leave-it with the tronic system. Sucks that they completely ruined a great boot with that gimmick.
Huge fail.
Why are we doomed to have zero fit options with boots in this weight class?
Joe K,
With you there–the tronic system gave me the spooks (cool on face value as it was) and the crampon thing really irritated me-I didn’t want to buy two new pairs of crampons (alu and steel). The combo was enough to return them. Lou hinted/predicted version 2.0 of this boot would make the tronic system have a manual over-ride.
But I totally agree with size, TLT5/6 have no business going on my feet. The F1 Evo was almost there out of the box.
Man I can’t help but think these boots would have sold much better without the tronic. I suspect that most of the crampon issues could have been solved without the tronic making the cuff so large.
So what do I replace them with? maestrale rs?
With some minor punching the Dynafit One PX (now Neo?) has been serviceable. I believe it has a wider last than the TLT5/6. It is not as nimble and light as the F1 Evo but it is no 4 buckle clunker. I’m still holding out hope for an iteration of the F1.. tronic fixed…and please modified slightly to allow a toe/heel bail to function.
Glad to see that they are aggressively taking care of the problem, but bummed because they were mated to my new Cho Oyu’s with TLTSpeed Superlights. Non-adjustable which means none of my other boots will fit. For now, my brand new skis are sidelined. I really, really hope whatever replacement they come up with has an exact matching sole length or people like me are screwed.
Waiting for a pair of Alien 2.0 to arrive I really wonder if this problem also goes for the all new full carbon boot…
I for one do not plan on returning a pair of great fitting, walking, and skiing boots for a rare problem that seems to mostly impact a small number of very aggressive skiing in rare circumstances until Scarpa has a replacement or work around.
I have skied about 20-25 days on these boots and have had this problem happen a handful of times. I’m really disappointed because the boot fits me really well and skis really well. Here’s hoping the F1Evo2 is the same boot without tronic.
On another note, if the heel pins are pulling forward enough for the switch to slide down, but not enough for the boot to pop out then wonder how close we are to popping out of our other tech bindings on a regular basis.
@Rick I’m not sure about toe piece placement, but the BSL on my F1Evos is the same as on my TLT6s.
Appreciate it Andy, I love the TLTs but too narrow for my Shrek-like foot. Even Evo’s are a push.
After using them for all of my touring this season (including in some fairly henious snow), I’d encourage people who loved the walk mode in the Evo F1, but disliked the Tronic to take a hard look at the Alien. I’ve skied both, and I think the Alien skies just as well as the Evo’s (better than the TLT5 Mountains it replaced), walks far better, and shares a similar last. I think it suffers (in the USA) from it’s association with spandex wearing randos. If Scarpa had released it in a vacum and said “here’s the lightest, best walking, touring boot out there, more people would give it a shot. It’s also shockingly warm despite it’s thin liner, I think because the range of motion in the cuff allows for great blood circulation.
I have zero personal experience with them but I do believe the Sportiva spitfire/sideral boots are a wider fit than TLT5/6 and in the same weight class.
Andrew, may be time to revisit the Spitfire. I wasn’t super stoked about the fit out of the box, but I’m sure they could be made to work. Really the only other option.
I’m at La Sportiva in Italy and their boots are looking very refined, worth checking out for sure. In terms of Scarpa, the Maestrale is still a gold standard in ski touring boots and always worth considering. Lou
I purchased Evos through the shop I work at. Set up w voile chargers and dynafits were perfect for the terrain in NW CO. Went into walk mode a number of times on a deep powder day in early Jan after having no issues when using them on other skis skinning the mountain. Did some research and saw others were having the same problem. Decided at store to wait until OR and SIA was over to deal w Scarpa and received an email this morning. Unfortunate because I really liked the boot but first generation products…lesson learned again
Atomic Backland Carbon boots does the same BSL in 27MP (297mm) than Evos does in 27MP, and does similar volumen and last, more than TLT6 does…
Maybe an option for those how mount non adjustable bindings….
Atomik Backland are on sale (in spain) in a small pre-production…if you’re an early adopter… : http://www.barrabes.com/atomic-backland-carbon/p-47844
Pablo, interesting, I didn’t know they were selling pre-production. I should have guessed, as they have somewhat of a size run in the journalist samples which is unusual. We should rename WildSnow.com to “Early Adopter’s Help Group.” (grin)
Lou,last weekend I skin on Backland Carbon. Not actual ski as I was touring flat by the streets of my little town in the Pyrenees range (It was snowing for hours and avy hazard was really high)
I used to ski on TLT5 and I need to put another insole as Backlands have higher instep and more volumen in the same size.
But they felt great!
I can’t acually tour until next week cause I fly to ISPO tomorrow and return home on Sunday.
When I ski on them next week I put a Little post with my impressions on the Backland post.
I love WildSnow.com being an Early adopter’s help group”
Help us Wildsnow Kenobi, You’re our only hope! (grin)
Kudos to Scarpa for taking the high road.
Love(d) mine. How about F1 v.2, sans-tronic, sans Boa. Same shell/fit, three lightweight buckles and a walk/ski lever. Keepin’ it simple. Sold!
“How about F1 v.2, sans-tronic, sans Boa. Same shell/fit, three lightweight buckles and a walk/ski lever. Keepin’ it simple. Sold!”
Sign me up.
I hadn’t picked up on those Atomics, they do look pretty nice…
I’m thinking I’ll ski them the rest of the season as well and then try to buy something in the fall to replace them.
@Pablo: Pretty sure the Backland Carbon 27.0/27.5 shell is 298mm BSL – my 26.5 shells are 288mm
Putting together all the comments it seems that the problem is that when the ski goes into counter-flex and the heel pins pull out of the heel far enough the tronic plate (which looking at an F1 boot sitting next to me is immediately behind the standard metal tech heel plate) snaps down and simultaneously blocks pins from returning forward and goes into walk mode.
Can anyone confirm this?
If this is the problem, why not just crank the heel piece a couple mils closer?
Jonn, yes, it’s been confirmed that can happen, unknown if it’s the reason for the recall. As for setting the heel piece closer, as with any other machine each time you change something you get multiple consequences, in this case having the heel piece too close can damage the binding, cause pre-release, cause the heel of your boot to catch on the binding when you’re in heel-flat-on-ski-mode, and probably 8 other consequences I can’t remember. Lou
I have some free advice for manufacturers: take your fabulous new product to some real ski hill (slow double chair preferred) and wait for some dirtbag skier to show up in his junker pickup. Offer him a sixpack to try it out and promise him a twelve pack if he breaks it.
Now with Obamacare giving everyone in the US free healthcare, Don’s idea might work. (grin)
Seriously, I’d advise any skier or skier/journalist to forget about testing bindings. Sure, we’ll keep reviewing them and give them a moderate ski (as I did in South America) as well as heavy bench testing, but I’m not going to have myself, friends or loved ones going out and getting hurt doing aggressive skiing on possibly defective products so we can pant like dogs over new gear and publish “binding tests” on WildSnow. I’m over it.
Apparently there are some other people out there that are fed up as well, and this subject may come up at a big meeting the industry is having here in Europe in a few weeks. If nothing else, there is some real buzz out there about actually having a standard/norm for the tech boot fittings, of which there is now zero other than an engineering drawing floating around that’s optional. This has allowed some innovation (such as La Sportiva fittings that theoretically work with both Trab and tech bindings) but it’s time for a tech binding norm in my ever humble and under stated opinion (grin).
http://www.isss2015.com/
Lou
Lou,
Yeah I’m aware there are consequences to setting the heel piece too close, but it’s an engineered range designed to accommodate a variety of skiers, weights, and ski flex stiffness. I think just a mil or two may heavily bias the odds against this happening.
Other potential reducers: stiffer underfoot ski, binding with plate (Radical 12s), heel piece with fore-aft elasticity and a bit of shortening.
As you alluded though, is this issue the only cause for insta-walk? The press release is hopelessly vague.
John, I do not for sure know the cause of the insta-walk. It’s all moot now due to this major recall… Lou
Lou help us poor souls who don’t fit into the Dyanfit TLT5 or 6 mold but love the mobility, ski ability and weight of the F1 EVO.
What do we get to replace this boot?
That’s my biggest hiccup right now, the F1 was my only boot and worked and fit great now I don’t know what to replace it with.
@Tolbert. I agree, I’m stuck as well. I not only need the higher volume fit, but at this point I also need the same BSL since I went to a non-adjustable binding committed to the F1 Evo’s. The Atomic Backland is intriguing, but also unavailable as of yet.
I’m hoping to chance it and hold on to the Evos for the season. Does anyone know if Scarpa will accept a recall return in a couple of months? They can’t just leave ya hanging….can they?
@ Rick
I looked into the Atomics as well and the only sample size I could find was a 25.5 and was told that size runs won’t be available till next fall.
I have thought about just risking it as well and finishing out the season but I don’t want to be stuck with a defunct boot if they won’t take them earlier.
Does anyone know how they compare to the Alien? Fit/stiffness?
Rick,
If doing business in the US a recall generally can’t have an expiration date.
Tolbert, next fall I think there will be several options, for now look at La Sportiva? Or go back to the bootfitter punching route on the TLT6?
Lou,
Early product testing by random dirtbags is a bad idea but it is only slightly removed from the current system under which customers don’t even get beer for their troubles. The out door industry needs to get serious about its testing.
I’m all set when it comes to 1500g Maestrale class boots, but I’d sure like a lighter option.
TLT6 — too narrow, not a fan of removable tongue
Spitfire — poor crampon fit, no-go for Vipec, low instep scares me
Backland — probably more forgiving fit-wise, another removable tongue 🙁
Only downside to F1 Evo for me was crampon compatibility.
I managed to snag a good deal on sized up TLT6’s recently, so I’m going to give those a go. Any tips on improving heel hold or avoiding blisters? I’m not going to have great heel hold in these.
Still waiting for the perfect lightweight boot.
This problem seem to be eliminated if used with the vipec or ion. These bindings have moving backpices that have “0 gap”. Am i correct ?
To some degree yes, but there have also been problems with the lean lock simply not working. Best to just return the boots and eventually get version 2. Lou
Probably the safest I guess, even tho the season is just getting started.
Do anyone know if the fit of the alien is the same or smaller?
The Alien fit isn’t very different. The Evo F1 has a more aggressive heel pocket. The Alien is however rather short. My sz. 27 Alien BSL is only 287mm. The Evo F1 is short as well (compared to, say, a Mastrale). But a bit longer due to a thicker liner than the Alien. The Alien is WAY easier to get in to.
I got the Scarpa F1 Evo back in November and immediately adjusted my bindings on my quiver skis 10 mm shorter to accommodate the shortness of the Evo soul compared to the Rush.
I had just enough scope in my adjustment to do this correctly.
I have skied 81 days as of today professionally, have 860,000 vertical so far mostly in the Wasatch. Never once has his boot flipped into walk mode while skiing. Having said that I should point out that I lube the boot every two days or three.
I also know and advise anyone not to be jumping into couloirs with an ST Rad binding set up. There’s just so much technology can overcome. The flexion of the ski on impact is not uniform. The tale will hit first hopefully in the ski will start flexing.
Modern skis have tremendous elasticity and power built into them.
I have seen a ski vault 20 to 30 feet in the air from Tail or tip direct impact.
I will send them back at the end of the year but this boot is a game changer with it’s lightness and it’s “ski ability.”
I am actually refitting the Intuition liner standing here typing this!
John, just make sure you keep the tech gap behind your heel adjusted snug to spec. What makes the boot go out of ski mode is the gap widens when ski flexes and the metal tab falls into the gap. Lou
Lou thank you that’s great beta.
That’s exactly what I thought happened to the people who experienced the change to walk mode.
Also the binding has to be properly positioned as you pointed out.
Scarpa is an upfront company.
I’ve been wearing their equipment for years.
There is some really great skiers out there, equipment maybe hasn’t caught up with some of the torque and pressures they can put onto a ski?
As for me,I’m 6’5″ and 230 ex downhill racer and put tremendous force on my equipment. but…. I don’t jump off cornices and cliffs with a an ST Rad set up.
I may be wrong,but I don’t think ST’s were made for that type of athletic endeavor ????
But pushing the envelope teaches us lessons and technology will learn from that.
John, exactly, tech bindings were not designed for high levels of force, they were originally designed as a ski touring binding. It’s actually pretty hilarious what people seem to expect them to be capable of. Some of the latest are amazing, but they’re still not alpine bindings. Lou
Hi! Does anybody know if Scarpa is going to amend this in the next season?
Yes, the corrected boot will be for sale this fall.
https://www.wildsnow.com/15807/ispo-2015-ski-tronic-scarpa-dynafit/
Lou
Thank You for quick info! At six AM – wow:)
I just read in Backcountry magazine that the F1 Evo will not be released this winter and they are hoping for a fall of 2016 release. Any news why they are now not releasing the boot this winter?
We’ve had a few dustings of snow up here in Canada which got me wondering… Any more details on Scarpa F1 Evos? I sure hope the redesigned boots will be ready for the fall!
Landon, sounds like the Evo is delayed again. Not sure what’s happening on the inside, am feeling very sympathetic to Scarpa, must be something hard to deal with. Lou
For those of us who fit into the Evo nearly perfectly out of the box, I’d like to report that the Salomon MTN Explore is a very good approximation.
So is the F1 Evo going to be available in Europe this year but not North America? It is showing up for sale online. Any news on what is going on with this boot?
http://www.cham3s.com/boots-f1-evo-scarpa,22599,6914338,1,p.html#no_balise
Looks like Telemark Pyrennes now has them in stock. Any news if they will be in North America?
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/scarpaf1atboot-p-375080.html
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