Ok, check this out! TLT Superlight 2.0 with a removable brake, 175 grams!
I’ve seen the future and it is the past. Dynafit TLT Superlight 2.0 is the big news for ski touring. Yeah, this binding has existed in various incarnations for years, but guess what? Hearkening back decades ago, Dynafit has cooked up a removable brake that appears in initial bench evaluation (warning, Koolaid consumed) to be the ultimate A1 sweet spot for ski touring when weight is key. 175 grams with the brake adding a bit more, but you can pop the brake on and off in seconds. The binding uses the old “U spring” vertical release system that engineers have told me they “wished would just go away,” but persists because it allows building a light simple “beautiful” binding. Women’s version lateral release sets from 5-10 RV , men’s 7-12. You can swap the U springs to change vertical release, men’s in the box is 9, women’s is 7. But the big news with this is the swap brake. Only in 80 mm for now, but the modders will take care of that problem in mere seconds.
We’re at the annual Dynafit press event, this time being held in Beaufort, France. A quick summary now, more meat later. Dynafit’s new products for 2015-2016 are strong in the freeride “free touring” category, and the racing side is getting attention as well. The Khion boot is an entirely new model that may fit nicely in the 4-buckle lightweight-but-stiff arena that few boots can survive. Claim is the new shoe “combines the rigidity and support of an alpine downhill boot with the comfort and lightness of a modern ski touring boot.” Yeah, you’ve heard that before, and these days that dream does sometimes become reality. Will Khion deliver the dream? It does look good.
TLT Speed Superlight with removable brake. So cool it is beyond even my highly developed ability to express myself in writing. Here at press event, you should have seen the photographers hovering around this thing, it looked like Angelina J. had just showed up with her latest look. Hilarious to see the powers-that-be in backcountry skiing journalism virtually ignoring the latest engineering and fawning over 20-year-old technology. But 20? That was a very good age.
Angelina? Or just a Dynafit binding?
Removing brake is nearly tool-free. You just push in the button and slide it off. Installing requires no tools.
Detail of TLT Superlight 2.0, with brake retracted.
TLT Superlight 2.0 underside of heel, spring loaded pushbuttons for brake.
TLT Superlight 2.0 in downhill mode.
This is the lowest the heel will ‘officially’ go on the Angelina 2.0, but you can rotate the heel unit to the side for a totally heel-flat-on-ski mode. I could see shimming front of binding up 3 millimeters, in that case the boot would be quite flat at the lowest heel position. Officially the binding has only two heel lift positions.
Medium lift, or high lift?
Khion Carbon will be top of the line, a combo freeride boot that tours like a Reudi and skis like a Cody. This version could be too stiff, MS version is made without the carbon and has a more forgiving flex. (Click images to enlarge).
Khion has so much rear touring motion you’d have to be a ballerina to need it all.
Khion overlap cuff.
Dynafit will also ramp up their ski mountaineering race sponsorship and product lines. They’ve hired former Italian National Team head coach Oscar Angeloni to lead their race division, and they’ve got some wild new colorways for the race boots, clothing and skis.
Also on the binding front, Dynafit will be placing new emphasis on supplying their certified boot inserts, and communicating that their bindings are only guaranteed to function correctly with the OEM inserts. In our view this continues to be a positive process for the tech binding industry, as the boot fittings are as much a part of a tech binding as the machinery bolted to your skis. This is only a step, however, as ultimately the boot fittings should be standardized “officially” and anyone who has the wherewithal to make them in compliance with the standard should be able to do so.
Along the same line, Dynafit says they’ll be making a concerted push to make the now “virtual” tech binding standard into an “official” standard that’ll probably be promulgated by ISO. We assume this mostly means the boot fittings, but will probably involve dimensions and shapes of binding parts, and more.
I’ll add some opinion about “official standards.” As I’ve attempted to clarify and detail the “DIN/ISO” certifications from TUV that ski binding marketing folks are bragging on, I’ve come to learn how irrelevant or downright unsuitable for tech (pintech) bindings the existing standards can be. I’ve also learned the TUV process is super expensive, and as I’ve suspected, insiders tell me that when companies do go for TUV certification to the binding standards it’s possible they’ll actually have to change excellent real-life features to less than ideal configurations that will pass the mostly artificial lab tests that TUV does.
Result: folks from three different tech binding companies have told me they’ll either “not bother with TUV,” or “only attempt TUV certification of a few bindings.” On our end, my pledge is to watch how much I tout the TUV certifications and perhaps an apology from me is even due, for what might have been too exuberant of a take on how important TUV is to you guys, the actual users of the bindings. The more important aspects of a tech binding are 1) How it skis in real life with attention to skiing unlocked without pre-release, 2) How durable, re consumer testing, 3)how it behaves on the workbench and carpet in “safety” release checks, 4)awareness that “classic” tech bindings most certainly do not have the performance of modern alpine bindings in terms of protection from lower leg fractures, as well as elasticity/retention.
How all the above factors influence us in real life will hopefully be studied some day. As I’ve said before, I’m not seeing an epidemic of leg injuries suffered by tech binding users. But both blown knees and broken legs are not unheard of.
Also regarding bindings, a real zinger here was the announcement that Dynafit will be licensing Fischer, Look (Rossignol & Dynastar) and Movement to brand Dynafit OEM bindings under their own company monikers. I’m not sure what benefit this will have for consumers. In fact, on the surface it appears it could be detrimental as there are most often multiple versions of the same Dynafit binding model, with associated “in line” improvements. Faced with multiple binding choices under different brands, consumers will have to suss out what is what, which is already hard enough when all the bindings carry the Dynafit logo. What is more, Dynafit claims they’ll be careful about how these bindings are priced — but as the years and seasons progress, where re-branded gear really ends up being sold and for what prices is always a question, and may cause a confusion for shoppers.
Back to the Khion boot. The holy grail of ski boots for aggressive riders is the alpine boot that tours. While boots of this nature are not our go-to in the WildSnow touring-for-turns environment, we certainly see the need for them. Vulcan has been Dynafit’s answer to that, and it proved worthy. Khion is a complete departure. Still stiff, but lighter, lower volume, and with a carefully integrated liner-shell-buckle system that’s said to make the boot ride stronger and smoother than ever. That’s the Koolaid, anyhow. The boots do look beautiful.
But what is a new boot without being paired with new skis? Freeride again. The new Dynafit Chugach is a “100 waist” plank that comes in with a 107mm middle, 22 meter radius, and 1,950 grams per 181 cm length. That’s reasonable weight, and we’d suspect strong performance. Dynafit says the ski has “double ellipse rocker construction” that helps it hold on steep hard snow while still performing in the soft. That will require some translation and verification. If you want something wider still, Dynafit’s Hokkaido might not be fat enough for its namesake but it comes in fairly rotund at 135/114/125, weight/surface will probably be similar to Chugach. Note these new freeride skis are more along the alpine vein in terms of their weight, as they’re intended for heavy and somewhat violent days of bliss.
Dynafit Chugach new for 2015-2016
Hokkaido, new fattie from Dynafit, 114 mm waist.
Hokkaido Dynafit catalog page.
Chugach Dynafit catalog page.
In all honesty, there are so many skis out there now with good dimensions and reasonable weight, we’ll want to do extensive evaluation with numerous skiers before we sing praises. For now I can say we’re looking forward to the process.
Khion MS, is the non carbon version with a more forgiving flex, for a bit less coin it still competes in the 4-buckle combo freeride boot category.
Khion WS women’s version. Pretty much the same boot with a bit different fit in the cuff area. Is the color a hit or a miss? In any case, pretty bold!
Almost like an Angelina sighting, the Radical 2.0 was spied among his security detail. (Perhaps he and Angelina are dating?) Radical 2.0 is said to have been delayed in production by a manufacturing detail in the brake system. We think it was probably the catch that locks the brake up during touring mode — always a challenge for any tech binding manufacturer. Images below show the parts in question.
Radical 2.0 brake catch. Upper photo shows the catch, which appears difficult to get into the right shape and size. Photo below shows how it’s covered with a plastic shell in retail version. Looks nice and in bench testing it works fine.
Dynafit PR copy excerpt edit, regarding Radical 2.0 which as delayed for 2015-16 retail and is looking good:
Radical 2 model will be unveiled at retail for the 2015-16 winter season. It combines safety with comfort and performance at a weight of 599 grams. The biggest update is the patented pivoting toe piece combined with the Step in Side Towers. One, this functions as an additional release mechanism; two, it works to prevent early release from side impacts. The release value of the ski touring version (Radical 2 ST) is 4 to 10. The Radical FT goes up to 12. In order to guarantee the best performance and power transmission, the extra wide Railsystem was developed (Wildsnow: meaning the base of the binding is wider). With 10mm of forward pressure (Wildsnow, what they actually mean is that the heel unit has 10 mm of movement fore/aft on a track), it promises good performance during downhill. The Railsystem provides 45mm in boot length length adjustment for the largest range in a (WildSnow: non demo non rental) tech binding. In addition, the Radical 2 has an optimally low stack height for optimal boot-to-ski contact. 4 stoppers (brakes) from 90mm to 135mm.
Dynafit PR copy excerpt:
The Khiôn is a highly technical, modern free touring boot… The goal was unrivaled performance and precision with direct power transmission and maximal support…thanks to the new Precision Lock System. This patented system enables the various parts of the boot to work together as a torsional stiff unit and thus allows maximum rigidity even under higher mechanical loads. The rigidity of the Magnesium Spoiler used here also saves weight, allowing the Precision Lock System to develop its full power. Lateral stability and stiffness in the forward lean is achieved via the “exoskeleton” in the exterior shell. Lateral dampers and asymmetrical construction support the legs when carving turns and ensure direct power transmission. Its surface was specially designed to reduce frictional resistance in the snow. This saves energy on the ascent and diminishes the risk of catching rocks or branches. The patented buckle system can be completely open with one quick hand motion without the need to alter current settings…
TLT6-P for 2015-2016 sheds the eye burning colors, adds gigantic logo. We like the colors, could do without the logo. This is pretty much the same boot as last year. Small improvements and changes are being marketed as ‘2.0’ such as buckles that are said to work better. Biggest change is probably a slightly relaxed last in the forefoot area that could make the boot warmer and easier to fit. Change to the quick release power strap is appreciated.
In closing, I’m going to sneak in a total 100% rumor. I’m predicting that within a year Dynafit will announce a branded airbag backpack that utilizes their style of making lightweight rucksacks. The plumbing will be from a pre-existing airbag pack maker, I won’t mention any names at this point. But really, shouldn’t Dynafit be the ones selling the lightest airbag pack? I was surprised to not see one here at the press event.
bye bye
130 comments
Looks nice. What’s new in the lightweight stuff?
In the nordic ski world, Rottefella makes bindings for almost all the major ski brands. Bindings come with the appropriate “brand” sticker, and customers buy accordingly. Good business for Rottefella, and I’m sure likewise for Dynafit.
I could be wrong, but from the pictures, the boots look like they have a lot of forward lean.
Isnt it time for the at boots to emulate the modern more upright alpine boots?
The Khion is certainly interesting looking. Couple observations… It looks like the have “bump stops” on the outside of the shell, between 2nfd and 3rd buckles, if thats the case kind of a bummer if thats what it takes to make them stiff. Those seem to be generally disliked, they dont provide much a progressive flex.
No micro adjustable buckles at all? Cant tell for sure, but it doesnt look like it to me.
Any idea on weight?
What’s the word on boot cuff tilt (“cant”) on Khion series or other Dynafits for 15-16, Lou? Is Dynafit budging on cuff adjustments?
Lou,
Do any models have a neutral scafo?
They look nice.
Lighter than the Vulcan? Did they give you any weights for the Khion series, Lou?
If those are flex stops as Justin pointed out, that’s bad. Why would that even be needed on an overlap boot that brags about having a “precision lock system?” I know it’s early in the game and perhaps presumptive, but it’s very strange.
Not sure the Speed Superlight customer is going to have the brakes on much, but people love options. So the new Superlight heel rotates 180 degrees?
Greg, Khion Carbon weighs 1530 (27 sample size), non carbon 1540. Vulcan in samp size weights 1615. So similar enough to purchase by price and performance rather than weight. Lou
Greg, yeah, the heel rotates so you can use it to look the brake. Very nicely designed. As to who will want the brake, believe me, I get asked all the time by people looking for the old brakes for the original TLT. It’s just super nice to have a brake on such a light binding, and have the option of taking off or installing it in mere seconds. Super cool. Lou
Wow. I was just getting ready to pull the trigger on a Vulcan to replace my Radiums…
Sounds like I might wait.
Push-button-removable brake is very cool. Using a brake inbounds and a leash in the backcountry? Yes please.
Does this new binding have a ‘flat’ mode for touring or are you stuck with only the risers? Psyched about removable brakes.
Removeable brakes on a speed super light – emphatic yes please!
Same question as Greg – if the new Superlight rotates 180 to deal with the brake, is there now a mode that can allow flat boot skinning? That is an important feature for me (although I know it isn’t a factor for some people).
Any word on whether the new speed superlight brake will be included or purchased separately?
I love the current speed superlight how it is now and would hate to see the price increase due to an included brake that I don’t want.
Imvho, the metallic rear spoiler of the khion works very well, along with several subtle stiffening points scattered in the whole boots. And the volume is certainly not lower than the vulcan… Actually I believe it’s a bit more confortable than the vulcan in crucial spots. One buckle has microadjustment in the proto, maybe more will have in the final release. After a few days in the non-carbo khion, I can honestly tell it skies well above any expectation.
Any word on the khion last? You said low volume, but what are we looking at? I’d like to see something slightly wider than Titan.
Again, I have no measurements but I’d say the khion is wider than the vulcan.
Dynafit Chugash: Looks good, but almost 2 kg for a 107mm ski in 181 is not SUPERlight, is it? (Guess a ski bulit exactly like the Denali but in Chugash-dimensions should be considerable lighter).
So is Dynafit aiming for even more downhillperformance and duarability, or will the Chugash be more affordable than Denali or Cho Oyu?
And: They still stick to the very dark topsheet, which is not good.
Jack, I looked at it a little while ago and it’s low volume “ergonomic” “pre punched.” It’ll probably fit some people great and other not so much. Like any boot. BTW it’s an overlap cuff boot, with huge range of motion in touring mode if you loosen the buckles. I’ll put up more photos soon. Gotta get some sleep. Lou
Nick, they have a nice flat mode. The lifters are a bit strange in that you can’t use the highest one unless the brake is uninstalled, or, I could be wrong about that, checking them more tomorrow. But they’re truly cool. Lou
By the way, thanks for all the information about new stuff you´re providing here, Lou. Very interesting.
But then, I guess it´s not the worst part of your job checking out all the Angelina-bindings, -shoes and -skis, right? 😉
Lou in response about the Vipec to use the highest lifter you have to have the lower lifter down is all because the upper lifter rests on the lower one. They do not mess with the brake bring locked up in tour mode.
Lou,
Release the rest of the surprises I know are coming, please. Also, I was a doubter about the no flat position in the current super light. But after several of our flat valley approaches I can honestly say I’m not affected in the slightest, and my TLT 6’s are tight. Plus once you ski this neutral ramp angle you can’t ski any other binding!
Thanks for the great post!
I’m really not seeing how the new Speed Superlight has a flat mode, but I’ll take your word for it. Spinning it 180 looks like a choice between medium and high positions.
The brake option is certainly nice as long as it doesn’t jack the price. My wife loves her new Speed Superlights but she does miss brakes a bit – particularly when trying to clip in on an slippery ridge.
Impressive they shaved 10g off the Speed Superlight (without the brake). I guess the only thing the older Speed Superlight has going for it is a nicer / simpler aesthetic. The 2014 binding is a work of art, while the new heel piece loses some of that in the clutter.
So the brake isn’t on the post anymore? Because I’ve noticed that when you remove brakes from regular a Dynafit bindings, the heel piece can spin easier. It’s like lowering the DIN setting a lot.
One thing that is really appealing about that new binding (besides the flash green color) is that once you are down with the flats, and up on the mountain, there’s no heel rotation needed. Climbing position 1, climbing position 2, rip skins, flip back climbing thingies, let ‘er rip. Sounds trivial but sometimes (sticky snow for example) it’s just nice to not have to fiddle around, let alone take off the skis.
Harold, the brake is entirely different than any other existing Dynafit brake system. It is not on the post, it just slides on and off the heel base plate. I’ll detail this stuff (including lift modes) as I get more access to the binding. The brake has a very strong spring and the arms look adequately beefy, but it’s not an ISO type alpine ski brake as you get on bindings such as Beast, Kingpin ION, it’s slightly on the minimalist side in appearance.
Where does this leave the Vulcan boot? Will it be replaced by the Khion? If not, what the target group for the two boots?
Lou,
I was able to order 1 KOHLA SKIN CARE SET from Spain. This the Glue, wax, etc… for maintenance of Volkl vacuum skins. Have you seen any availability there in EuroLandia? Apparently the proper product is not yet available in the US.
Thanks!
TP won’t deliver to the US, although a Spanish distributor has shipped and cleared US customs.
Speed Superlite w/brakes will be a big seller if pricing is fair. This could be my first Dynafit binding with brakes. The ease of install and removal is a key selling point.
Khion MS looks sci-fi military issue cool.
“Lateral dampers?”
Adrian, the Vulcan is now Pebax (as it the Khion) instead of Grilamid They say it”s a new formulation of Pebax that might be easier to heat punch. We love Grilamid, but Pebax does have some advantages, mainly being more prone to progressive flex and also having the right feel-flex for an overlap cuff boot. I do know Pebax is much easier to work with than Grilamid. The truth will be in how they ski.
BIG difference is that Vulcan is a tongue boot while Khion is overlap. That’s huge. No way you can really even compare the boots, it’s apples and oranges. Some folks will like the apples, some the oranges.
Lou
So Lou with the Khion being an overlap boot is this going to be targeted as the “One Ring to Rule them all”? i.e. pair this with a beast binding and a relatively lightweight but stiff ski and you can jam around both the resort and the backcountry?
Grant, yes, that’s the idea. The marketing spreech is that Khion skis “just like an alpine boot.” Could be, as any well made overlap ski touring boot can get very close to feeling just like an alpine boot. I like the whole concept, could be really nice for my occasional days of ski testing on the lifts, instead of using my touring boots with their wimpy liners and comfort fit.
For just skiing down, are there folks who like tongue boots better than overlap? If the weight, walk mode, and ease of entry are comparable, please describe to me how a tongue boot skis and flexes anywhere close to an overlap.
Mason, it’s called a Full Tilt. Lou
Pebax is easier for the manufacturers to deal with in terms of getting the shells off the mold, but has historically been a pain for bootfitters due to lots of memory, poor grindability, etc. Maybe this new Pebax+ will be an improvement, but I’m sceptical.
When the Dynafit guys came through town a couple of weeks ago they mentioned (I think) that all the boots are Pebax+ for 2016, citing the difficulty of punching Grilamid (not true, we punch probably half of the Free Tour and TLT6 boots we sell and it’s easy).
@Greg punching Grilamid is only easy if you know what your doing. The difference in melting and manipulation of Grilamid compared to the capability of Pebax are on different scales. Same as between Pebax and PU. Plus the time in a punch is longer for each of these to hold. Just like Pebax is to PU, Grilamid is to Pebax. Each one a little less easy to work with. Each one its own material benefit in the field.
Your crew have had years to understand this, your average Joe after his first Masterfit U, probably has no business attempting a toe punch on a Grilamid or grind a Pebax boot.
Pebax has always been a weight thing (being lighter that PU) and one of its main benefits over PU is its less temperature variability to PU.
PU is a performance focus, It’s less expensive as a raw maeterial by volume and has a better progressive resistance and return than Pebax, and much easier to work with on the manufacturing level.
PU has historically been used in alpine boots because it has better rebound than Pebax. Which comes off the mold easier is really irrelevant IMHO. PU is just better for downhill performance.
Grilamid came on the seen in the speed market as you could make it thinner than Pebax reducing weight even more than Pebax.
Now there seems to be a new hybrid material Pebax+ to give you more performance from a product that has in the past had less performance in the field of downhill for skiing but more comfort for touring.
Lou, I’m not sure I follow why your using Full tilt cabriolet as an example when it has historically been touted for it performance in the PU makeup. Yes it skis great, but i’d be pretty skeptical of a full Pebax full tilt providing the same quality performance of a PU.
I think boot material along with boot design creates the performance characteristic for a given focus. We have made Pebax 4 buckle alpine overlaps, but IMO they rarely ski as good as PU. They are lighter and that is better for going up, but up until now, they lack the performance of PU equivalent boots on the down, maybe Pebax+ will be the Holly Grail of plastic to finally bridge the gap of downhill performance between the plastic sheets. 🙂
Thanks as always Lou for the early look into the future.
I read somewhere they can’t make an overlap boot in Grilamid becuz its so stiff so all the grilamid boots are tongue style ??
@Skian, I think Lou was using Full Tilt as an example for Mason, who asked if there are people who prefer skiing a tongue boot. To me, the headline on the Khion is that it’s lighter than the Vulcan, overlap AND is alleged to have a giant range of motion. If that all plays out, it really is a leap forward. MANY people prefer the way overlap boots ski, but in the past you gave up a ton of range of motion in tour mode. Maybe that’s about to change…
re; ROM of cabrio design vs. overlap. I’ve found that the ROM in my Garmont Deleriums more resistance free in FORWARD flexing on steep uphills than, for example, the mango scarpa maestrales…with buckles completely loose. Not nearly the ROM rearward, but for any ski touring with inclined ascents without extended flats, yoyo ski touring, more than adequate.
As for the pebax vs. grilamid scenerio; I found that my pebax mango Maestrales softened into bedroom slippers and suffered unacceptable collapse and lateral weakness in very warm temps. My grilamid Dynafit Mercuries do not exhibit nearly the same tendencies even with summer skiing…though they do have the forward flex stops…potential contributor to maintaining integrity?
Another thing to note about the Superlite 2.0 is that is has a four-hole mounting pattern instead of the three-hole pattern on the 1.0. This could encourage folks who are putting race bindings on wider and wider skis.
I had the opportunity to try on the Khions this week. The fit was quite comfotable off of the shelf. When locked they are quite stiff. The buckles could use some more refinement, IMO. Can’t wait to demo them on snow later this month.
I added a few more photos of the Khion. Unreliable internet is cramping my style, but I’m sticking with it. Lou
Xer, yeah, that’s pretty much it. Overlap boot plastic has to be forgiving to allow getting in and out of the boot and for nice flex. Also about Grilamid is since it’s so stiff it’s really hard to get the boot off the mold (as someone else I think mentioned, and we’ve covered in our Scarpa and Dynafit factory visit blogs. I’d imagine a true Grilamid overlap boot might need a very expensive two-part mold to even get the boot off the injection machine, if it was even possible. Lou
Getting in and out of the khion has a learning curve, but it’s short if someone tells you the right way. Regarding grilamid and overlap boots, I’m curious to know what the freedom RS is made of
Lou, I know the Full Tilt skis well for a tongue boot, but no ROM and it’s heavy. So, besides Full Tilt, does anyone like tongue boots better than overlap for the down? I suspect the answer is no. Khion sounds nice.
Hey Lou,
For now it appears that all manufacturers have settled on generally the same toe design. Regarding the heel “flippers” are the norm (sans Plum) for heel lifters. All that’s left is the boot heel – binding interface. Now that the Kingpin has entered the market, what’s the Tech 2.0 heel look like?
And where are the beer and pastry photos?
Lou, I´m still wondering about the weight of the new Dynafit skies. Sure you got that right?! Chugash (107 waist in 181 length) 1950g? The existing Grand Teton (106 mm / 182) weighs only 1670, even the Huascaran is lighter in 186 and waist 114 (1850g); and both of those already are not the iightest built by Dynafit (which would be skis like Cho Oyu or Denali).
Are Chugash and Hokkaidoa ment to replace Grand Teton and Huascaran? But why are they heavier than?
Could you please check on the weight again if you´re still at the press event?
Hi Erik, I’ll check the weights, but know these are freeride skis, intended for heavy use both in and out of resort. More, the Chugach and Hokaido are heavily rockered, pretty much a full ellipse reverse camper profile. Way different than the touring skis such as Grand Teton and Huscaran. These full-on freeride skis are somewhat of a business experiment in my opinion, as they’re intended to break into the true alpine side of the ski business, presently dominated by the big brands. Dynafit is doing fine as a business, but like all busineses they need to look for ways to change and perhaps grow, rather than remaining static. Personally, I’d like to see them go mad on innovation for racing/touring but they already dominate those segments so the financial incentive is more subtle. That said, when you are a leader you have to innovate in your leadership position, or else your competitors will end up surpassing you. Dynafit’s innovation on the lighter side has a good track record if you look at it over three-year periods, but this year they are definitely focusing on the heavier side. Good example is the TLT Superlight 2.0, which is cool and a me-want for many of us, but basically a re-invention.
Remember that any weights for the skis are pre-production. The only true weights will be the retail versions next fall.
Lou
Jailhouse, we’re in France, beer exists but it’s not very photogenic. This area is not exactly a center of confectionery either. Beaufort is know for cheese. Perhaps we should do “Guess That Cheese?” (grin).
Mason, I’m perfectly comfortable with tongue boots on the down, and so are several million other ski tourers. But saying we like them “better” would be pointless. They’re used because they work so well for both the up and the down. I totally agree that if I wanted a boot for resort skiing, I’d use an overlap boot. I usually keep a pair of overlap boots in my stash for the couple of times a year I got snowcat skiing or spend a day riding the lifts, as all my touring boots are too light for long days of mechanized vert.
The operative word here is “enjoyment.” If we enjoy ski touring with our tongue boots, an overlap boot is pointless. But if our enjoyment is being limited and the overlap would be more fun, then there is a point. It would be an individual decision.
Lou
Eric, on the ski weight discussion Cody Barnwell has joined Dynafit and with Hoji my guess would be they aren’t from the race background and could help entice those coming from an alpine background towards a lighter weight gear ensemble. More a suite of human powered options and something to team with the Khion.
Lou,
How’s the Khion pronounced – Key-on / Kai-on (is it something from the world of Karate?)
Perhaps a guess that aperitif given your location. You will need that and perhaps a digestive as you front up to a big hot cheese dish.
I have been warned off beer when eating fondue and to stick to white wine so the cheese doesn’t set as a block in the stomach… Not sure how much of that to believe, but when in Rome…
Frame, good question. Wouldn’t want to sound like a noob when commenting on how beautiful someone’s Khion boots were.
I just asked the Dynafit source who is sitting next to me, it’s pronounced KEY ON, soft y.
http://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/NympheKhias1.html
Lou: anything new on the Radical 2.0? Is it happening or does it die on paper?
No power strap on the Khion? Do you miss it? I’m trying to decide if I wait to see Khion or buy the maestrale rs. Tough to make these decisions with no snow here in the PNW.
Lou, I hope to see more and more overlap touring boots in the future, the trend is already there. Salomon, Technica, K2, Scarpa, BD, now Dynafit, next Scarpa version with better ROM. It seems so obvious that overlap allows for “better enjoyment” on the down. I didn’t know the differences in flex/rebound of PU vs. Pebax vs. Grilamid, interesting.
Can’t wait for Dynafit to start offering a re-branded Pivot 18 to go with those Hokaidos . . .
A few clarifications on the skis. Both the Chugach and the Hokkaido are single radius skis (above the Hokkaido was listed as a triple radius ski like past Dynafits) with an elliptical reverse camber rocker profile. The 188cm Chugach is 108mm underfoot with a 24m turning radius and the 189cm Hokkaido is 118mm underfoot with a 28m turning radius. The elliptical rocker profile means that the rocker starts very gradually and progressively increases as you get closer to the tip and tail. For the geometrically minded, the radius of the rocker profile’s arc decreases as you get closer to the tip and tail. The way the elliptical rocker profile interacts with the single radius sidecut creates an effective edge (amount of edge in contact with the snow) that increases and decreases depending on the amount of edge angle. Basically, not much edge angle = short effective edge while lots of edge angle = longer effective edge. The amount of effective edge depends on how far you lay over the ski. Thus the ski can be quick and agile and stable and confidence inspiring all at once. The Chugach and Hokkaido were designed with uncompromised downhill performance in mind and as such are heavier than previous offerings from Dynafit.
Jamie, look at the graphic of the Hokkaido, a triple radius is printed on the ski along with the sidecut. I’ll check the unmounted ones here and see if that’s still so. Confusing. Lou
Thanx for the detaiiled information on the skies, Jamie (are you actually working for Dynafit?), also Lou and frame!
So this dowhnhill-oriented thing is really a new field for Dynafit, since right now they are known for building some of the ligthest skies out there.
I personally appreciate that new approach and from my personal “Touring-milieu” I´d say there for sure is a market developing for that, even amongst the people who never use ski lifts to get to the powder-slopes (like me).
Here in Austria I see two groups of Ski-Tourers developing:
First the one, who mainly stay inside an area and go on pistes (or on very well known and piste-like-tracked tours), mainly for fitness-reasons.
Second, more “freeride-oriented” backcountry skiers. So if me and my buddys go for a short tour after work, maybe in the dusk, maybe only like 600 to 800 meter of vert, we really don´t care much for the weight of the ski and if it takes 10 minutes longer to reach the top than it would with a lighter one, as far as we have real fun on the down.( Besides, using that heavier equippment on the up (and having much more fun on the down) makes you quite fit for longer tours on the weekend or in springtime, where you would use a lighter setup).
Thats what I would buy a ski like the Chugash for (and maybe will…)
And so will probably the guys who go partly by lift and partly human powered for freeriding. Here the new skies paired with maybe a beast and the Kion seem to be a very good option
Hi Lou,
Thanks for the report. Could you please follow up with info and pictures on the new race equipment, plus some more details/pictures on the Angelina 2.0. Maybe in a separate post, so it doesn’t get mixed up with all the freeride stuff.
Peter
Lou, your colleagues from the French skipass.com web-site went to the same Dynafit press event, and they write that the new Vulcan will be in between the old Mercury and Vulcan, and the Mercury will disappear.
So the Vulcan will be positioned as a touring boot that does quite well on the down, and the Khion will be a downhill boot that tours quite well. Both will probably be stiff enough (too stiff) for most, but it would be interesting to compare these boots on a long uphill.
I don’t know if I’d quite put it that way, but yeah, Vulcan won’t have the carbon cuff, it’s fiberglass instead, but just as stiff. There is a bit of confusion about what’s in next year’s line overall, as they never gave us a 2015-2016 catalog, which is usually how we get it all clarified.
I think both Khion and Vulcan will be pretty much the same on the uphill, depending on your technique and how you set up the buckles. I think this is more a matter of preference between overlap and tongue construction, perhaps based on how much you really tour in the boots as opposed to riding the cable.
I’m still here, a hundred feet away from the boots if you want me to look at anything. Last chance, really, until we get samples next fall.
Lou
Angelina 2.0 pics coming up, she’s just across the hall from our room. Lou
Erik, the Chugach and the Hokkaido are a project that I have been deeply involved with for a couple of years now. Dynafit gave a couple of its athletes free reign on its new fat skis. Initially there were a few stipulations, but they soon melted away. Hence a reverse camber Dynafit ski. The coolest part of the project was that each member of the team collaborating on these skis has a different skiing style and is looking for different performance characteristics from their skis, but all had a common vision to achieve their end goal. I ski very differently than Cody, or Fred (Beast binding designer) but we all want the same end product.
Lou, some of the prototypes had inaccurate dimensions listed on the top sheet as a place holder as we didn’t have the exact dimensions finalized. I think they were the dimensions of a Huascaran or very similar. The skis you may be looking at might have an older top sheet by mistake. Point it out to Schorsch and give him a hard time about it!
Ok, sorry about reading too carefully (grin). I’ll edit post. Lou
Sounds interesting, Jamie. I really don´t have any experience concerning seriously reversed cambered skis, but as far as I know they are first of all designed for deep powder, right?
May I interpret your previous post like that the elliptical rocker combined with the single radius makes them good for various kinds of snow and even for the hardpack?
A reverse cambered ski can rip the hardpack if that was a consideration in its design. After all, all skis are take on a reverse camber shape once they are bent into a turn. A reverse cambered ski can carve as well and have every bit as much edge hold as a traditional ski, you just won’t have as much pop or energy. Energy is essentially the biggest design purpose for camber. If you can live with less energy and a smoother ride, the numerous benefits of reverse camber are all of the sudden opened up to you. Unfortunately, most reverse cambered skis were never designed with carving or hard snow performance in mind and it shows. This has perpetuated the myth that reverse camber is only for deep days. It all comes down to a preference in feel. If I want pop, and some days I do, I have a pair of 165 cm slalom race skis that will send me into orbit if I’m not ontop of it. But on most days, especially in the backcountry, the versatility and playfulness of reverse camber is what I want. I hope some of this helps and doesn’t taste too much like Kool-Aid.
@erik a lot of hard snow skis are nowadays full reverse, just see for example the 14-15 mantra and how it can carve and grip on hard. I am personally sold to this concept since at least two winters.
Jamie, this for sure helps, thank you for taking your time to explain. Kind of opens my horizon, Never even thought of trying a heavily reversed cambered ski, due to sticking to what you call the myth that its only for real deep days (which are unfortunately too rare where I live to purchase a special ski just for that) . Only have experience with some moderat rockered models,
So the Chugash could be really a great choice for what I want from a ski on many days out (though on some I´d still need something lighter)
Jamie, thanks, I was going to mention that slalom race skis are perhaps the end-all in “ripping hardpack” but don’t have reverse camber. You make it clear what’s what regarding this. Lou
I don’t know why anyone would be surprised that Dynafit came out with a couple heavier, more freeride-y skis given the Beast, Khion and even some of their past boots (heck, the Zeus had swap soles).
Lou a couple of more questions that I don’t think have been addressed:
1. Are those in fact bump stops on the Khion?
2. Any word on the Khion MSRP?
Thanks for all the great info!
Lou, I am just reading on a German website that the Khion will have magnets on the buckles. Is that true? If so, very bad choice, those do not mix well with beacons.
Dave, just read that too. Seems to be true, reason beeing something like the magnets keep the setting of the buckles when you open them (don´t fully understand that one, to be honest)
from the same website some even more detailled infos bout chugash and Hokkaido, for those who are interested in these planks like me
Fakts CHUGACH
Längen: 173, 181, 188, 194
Taillierung: 136-108-126
Radius: 24m
Weight: 1990 g (bei 188 cm)
Fakts HOKKAIDO:
Längen: 176, 182, 189, 195
Taillierung: 142-118-131
Radius: 28m
Weight: 2200 g (bei 189 cm)
Agree on the full reverse camber ripping hard pack as longer as it’s mellow. I’ve skied the whole Volkl RTM series and new Mantra on serously hard snow and they do ski well. At high edge angles they are very carvy, ease off on the edge a little an you can pivot them around easily. The RTM 80 skis soft snow really well for a narrower ski. I’m anxious to try the BMT 94 after my experience with these skis.
Count me among the many who want more detailed info on this 90deg-turn Flat Mode for the new Superlight binding.
Also, how long until B&D or someone makes a doohickey to stick on that heel riser to make it actually a ‘high’ riser?
A Superlight with Flat Mode, a true high level riser, and a brake option is a very compelling product!
Peter, I think we’re going to take care of all that stuff with some mods over the coming year. Should be fun. 30 years later, still making the binding we want in the garage (grin). Fritz will be proud.
IF the removable brake works, it’ll be so killer. Solves a huge potential problem.
Lou
a heel riser for the superlight that ‘goes to 11’ looks like an easy mod. j.b. weld a hunk of aluminum or plastic onto the flipper. done. or, to make it ‘elevate’ in increments, drill a hole and bolt on stacked hunks of cutting board plastic or something similar to gain whatever height you want. I still tour with an old pair of o.g. lowtechs with heel risers cranked up with two extra pink punk thingies…works like a charm. appropriate for wasach skin trail angle or west coast wahoooo.
I can probably convince Bill to make a “Nubbin,” but only after we do some testing to make sure these are viable in retail, avoiding “early adopter” syndrome that seems to plague tech bindings.
What’s really missing from the equation is someone could so easily make a brake for _all_ tech bindings that worked independent from the binding, like that thing I cobbled up from a G3 brake a few years ago. Incredibly disappointing that no one ever did.
Lou
Khion video from Dynafit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgg1RE9QlvE
Seeing the cuff release in motion reveals that it definitely appears to be a novel approach – kind looks like a melding of an old rear entry hinged cuff with an overlap cuff. Pretty cool idea.
Also, the “stops” are described as being “progressive bumpers” or something like that. So maybe these work differently from the flex stops we are used to. I hope so, I’m not a big fan of the typical flex stops.
It does appear to me that a power strap is missing, usage will tell.
Speaking of rear entry boots….I think Salomon should re-introduce the good old SX 91 Equipe boot in a neuvo 2.0 ski touring version. I loved the adjustable flex and heel hold down thingamabob. With custom liners these days, the things even might actually fit some folks.
khion movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgg1RE9QlvE
the one with Hoji is Nicola Viniero (formerly at Garmont and Sportiva), who should be considered the dad of the Khion.
How low down on the liner does the lacing/closure thingy go, right down to the ankle fold to hold in the heel?
thanks.
Lou: question for you. I assume that there is no difference (color maybe) between men’s and women’s except the release values? In other words, so reason at all that I couldn’t buy the women’s, even though my boot size is relatively big (10.5)?
Eric, yeah, I’d be very surprised if there was a difference other than the release values. Lou
To keep the record straight, I added Hokkaido and Chugach catalog page images to the blog post, that way you guys have all the official specifications.
What? Hoji has a father? If this boot has a father, his name is Mario, Athletes give feed back, Craftsmen make boots.
Skian, the father is nicola viniero.
It’s true that in most cases the industrial designers and engineers are who really come up with the gear despite marketing spreech about “athletes”, but in Hoji’s case he truly does come up with inventions on his own, that the engineers listen to and perhaps collaborate with. Sad thing is that for every 100 good ideas only one makes it to retail. Lou
It sure would help if the great ideas that DO make it to retail wouldn’t quickly disappear, like Vertical ST and Zzero 4.
Sure, the marketing machine needs to turn on, but I have the impression that these days many an innovation is made just for the innovation’s sake. Dynafit is by all means not the only company out there guilty of scrapping superior products, but why not stick to things that work and are sold in large quantities for longer than just a few years?
If you look at K2, their Mt. Baker Superlight/WayBack has been a huge success (at least in Europe) with minor modifications for something like 8 years and is only being replaced this season.
Just my 2c,
Lenka K.
Lenka, you´re totally right. And funny that you mention exactly the products I think about at first in that context: My ligther Allround ski is a wayback mounted with Verticals, my Ski for very liitle snow (and many rocks…) is my old baker superlight also with Verticals, and the ski I like most a coomback with, guess… Verticals.And the coomback I still ride … guess… with my Zzero 4 (the other skis with a TLT 5).
And all that stuff works perfectly for partly many years now.
On the other hand one has to say, without the longig for innovation even THAT gear would have never been developed. Nevertheless: I see no reason to replace for example my verticals by radicals…
^^Jamie,
Sounds a lot like what Volkl has called ELP rocker for several years now – matching sidecut, flex and rocker profile to change effective edge and characteristics of the ski.
I can vouch for it working – my Volkl shiro can rail firm snow better than any ski it’s size should be able to but it’s still a fairly big wide ski so it’s not going to be quick edge to edge. Depends on ski/snow/style/preference but I still like some camber in skis for firmer or more variable snow.
Just had a look at the pictures again, anybody know if the superlight 2 will have a crampon attachment? Or if there will be a separate version with one? Like ATK does.
The speed superlight 2 with removable brake sounds like the ultimate binding.
Does the brake have a lock on it for walk mode or do you have to remove it for going uphill?
I’m trying to get some 105mm kreuzspitze brakes to use with the current speed superlight. These are also removable as they use the crampon slot but don’t have a lock mechanism so they have to be removed for walk mode.
John, the brakes lock up no problem. Only glitch is that the binding has no true heel-flat-on-ski mode, which is odd, we’re all figuring there might be a workaround. Lou
any change to the Speed Radical next year?
No comments yet on the new “slightly relaxed last” of the TLT6?? Any idea how relaxed it will be? This fact seems louder than the new, gigantic logo. Thanks.
Lou, wondering if you had any availability timetable for the Khion? Thanks.
On info (weights in particular) on the 15/16 race skis?
Any idea what the Speed Superlight 2.0 will cost? About the same as this year’s Speed Superlite, $550, plus maybe a markup for the brake?
And, I know this calls for speculation, but how worried should I be about “first year” problems with these bindings? I’d love to get them for next year, but I certainly don’t want to have unusable bindings while on a week-long hut trip.
In Europe the official price will be unchanged at €500 plus €80 for the stop-ski.
Not really competitve with the ATK raider 12 at €535 including
– the stop-ski
– a better lateral release (no lateral move until release)
– a true adjustable front release (not only a fork)
– and a plate to adjust sole length (can’t see one on the Superlight 2.0).
…but the ATK Raider is almost twice as heavy: 330g versus 175g for the Superlight. Seems like a different category of binding.
Echoing what E Ray was asking, any idea about how relaxed the new TLT6 last will be?
Just a few millimeters, from the way it looks. I’ll ask around. Lou
Official word is that the last is the same! That’s not what I gathered informally. Time will tell. Know that the Atomic Backland does have a wider last, and the shell does mold easily. Good alternative for folks with wider feet. Scarpa F1 Evo as well, once they start selling it again this coming fall. Lou
It appears with the Khion that the lean-lock mechanism does not lock the cuff to the spine (magnesium spoiler) of the boot. This contrasts with virtually all other AT boots on the market right now. I’m really excited about this because it means the boot relies on the flex/stiffness of the overlap front portion of the boot as opposed to the rigidity of the spine. Hopefully more progressive.
I think that also explains why the boots come with a “bump stop” near the hinge point of the cuff. The bump stops are positioned quite a bit lower relative the the Mercury/Vulcan stops too. From the photos it looks like they are pressured almost immediately upon flexing of the boot – should feel more like “part of the flex pattern” as opposed to the “brick wall halfway through the flex pattern” of the Mercury/Vulcan. Thoughts? Very excited to try these boots out next winter!
Nolan, where do you get that idea? As far as I know Khion has a lean-lock. But I’ll check. Good to get this straight right away. Lou
Lou- Any updates to this post, especially for the Khion, TLT 6 and Superlight binding? Inquiring minds want to know!!!
Thanks
Hi Lou,
I remember well your custom made metatarsal width tool and would kindly ask you to do me a favour and check the respective width in a 2016 TLT 6 Performance boot. Reference for me are the 98 vs 100mm you measured back in 2013´s TLT5+6 28.0 sized boots. I´m still with my TLT5 (plus Maestrale RS for Freetouring) as I didn´t get along with the narrower TLT6s and wonder if any changes have been made to the mold forefoot wise.
Thanks a lot !
Jürgen
Marc, we covered an unboxing of retail version Superlite 2 just a few days ago:
https://www.wildsnow.com/17837/dynafit-superlite-2-review-binding-skiing/
We checked out retail version Khion at the OR show recently as well. They really did look good, quite light for an overlap cuff boot, nice cuff locking system with what appeared to be zero slop. We’ll keep updating as winter progresses.
Jurgen:
https://www.wildsnow.com/11380/width-dynafit-tlt6-tlt5-ski-boots/
Per your request I’ll check some boots over at the ski shop. But I have to ask, it is incredibly easy to punch out a few mm in the TLT 6 grilamid plastic to get more mets width, why not just do that? No access to a boot fitter?
Lou
Hi Lou–regarding your recent comment: “…it is incredibly easy to punch out a few mm in the TLT 6 grilamid plastic to get more mets width…” I have really big wide feet. I need a size 31 boot, with as much width as possible. I like the Dynafit boot line, but the high end models don’t come in big sizes, and I have heard that they are narrow. Now I am thinking about two of the cheaper Dynafit boot options, such as the Neo PX or the Neo U. These boots come in big sizes. One is pebax and the other is polyurethane. Do you think I will be able to get a bigger and longer-lasting punch with the polyurethane model? Thanks, Bruno.
Poly punches easier, it does stretch and set easier but nothing wrong with punching Grill. It’s thinner, it takes a pro, and it’s grindable and its flexible. Poly skis better but is heavier, grillamid is light and thin. Fine line between melting and manipulation. It all depends on what you want to do. If your a wight Winnie punch those ultra light ultra expensive High end Grillamid, if your a skier, pick up some poly and put the rest of the money in beer.
@Bruno: Radical CR has by far the highest volume and widest last in Dynafit’s lineup, though the biggest size seems to be 30.5 on their website. As far as the Neos go, I would put my money on the PU version to hold a punch better, Pebax typically has more “memory” (haven’t actually punched a Neo PX, but have lots of experience with other Pebax boots, and they’ve often been difficult).
What Skian said.
And yes, punching Pebax is a hassle.
Ugh, I don’t see the new colors of the new TLT 6 Mountains as an improvement. I wish they had stuck with the green:
http://www.dynafit.com/us/tlt-6-mountain-cr-boot.html
I would be cautious about any of Dynafits new products. They have a very poor warranty program. If you buy, you can bet you bought it with no warranty. Good luck.
Just to balance the previous comment, last spring Dynafit replaced a broken buckle for me at no charge for a boot that was well past warranty. Communication with customer service was easy and their response was reasonably prompt.
I second the comment about positive customer service and warranty support from Dynafit/Salewa. Been using Dynafit bindings since the late 90’s and boots in various incarnations for the same time frame. I’ve had my issues and all were promptly addressed over the years. Having said that, I’ve found that all gear manufacturers have been generally reasonable to deal with regarding warranty issues when communication was presented in professional and respectful manner.
I think what kind of luck you have with dynafit depends on where in the world you live … no complaints up here
I purchased 181 Chugach today and put some new 2.0 FT bindings on, I have no doubt that this setup will see many 5-7,000 ft days this season and I’ll be loving the down. Paired with my La Sportiva Spitfires this is a great setup and really responsive.
I am looking for real world input on the most recent version of the Dynafit Vulcan (the Vulcan ms pebax version) and the Dynafit Neo. These will replace a pair of Scarpa Freedom SLs, hopefully as my one boot quiver. Me: 70/30 touring (mostly resort fitness laps) / resort-snowcat, strong skier, but prefer technical over fast (friends blow by me on groomers), tall but not a “big guy”, 70-80 days per year, tend to favor something in the middle of the light to charger spectrum of skis. The Freedoms are getting old and seem like overkill for what I do and how I ski. I like the feel of the Maestrale RS but wary of low cuff height and durability issues (primarily the tongue hinge). I cannot find the original Vulcan in my size (29-29.5) and cannot find much info on the Vulcan ms. I am mostly wondering if I would find the Vulcan ms too be too stiff and/or the Neo too soft. I would likely put an intuition liner in either, so could effect some adjustments that way. Thanks.
Jeff, Vulcan is incredibly stiff and discontinued. I’d think Neo would be a good bet, but Maestrale RS hinge is not a problem if you learn how to use it. Woe to those that don’t however… the hinges still break if they get stressed. Lou
jeff – you might want to take a look at the new Lange all tour. It’s lighter than the Freedom SL, works with three different DIN standards, has Dynafit branded tech fittings, skis better than a Freedom SL (personal experience) and was designed by some guys who know a lot about ski boots, touring included.
Jeff,
you might also want to look at the (now discontinued) Dynafit Mercury, currently available discounted on line at a few sites. I got these last year to drive bigger skis (100 mm under foot) for both BC and in area, and have been very happy with them – noticeably stiffer than a tlt 6 but still very comfortable; I ski them without the plastic tongue, which would add more stiffness. Fit is similar to a tlt 6, though a bit wider.
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