Updated January 15 (Note: due to the strong readership we’ve been getting from Europe over the past few years, we’ve decided to cover larger and sometimes complete range of products when we write overviews about any given company. We will NOT be drawing a distinction between what is imported to which country and what is not. In other words, our coverage will be global and we’ll leave it up to importers, PR people and shoppers to figure out where to acquire products.
We’re here in Switzerland checking out Dynafit’s new products for next season. Overall the innovation in bindings and boots continues, trend being evolution of existing products.
Pierre Gignoux Dynafit RC1 full carbon boot and pintech binding.
Perhaps biggest news for those of us still focused on lightweight ski touring is that Dynafit has partnered with Pierre Gignoux, the famed French carbon fiber boot maker. Working with Gignoux, Dynafit will brand a 500 gram full carbon race boot as well as a 75 gram binding (both of which work only with each other). While this stuff is high priced and designed only for racing, it is exciting because things of this sort may trickle down to the ‘normal’ ski touring market. So look for your gear getting simpler and lighter — if you like it that way. Otherwise, the latest crop of full-feature tech bindings continue to gain weight and complexity — but in doing so may become safer and easier to use.
RC1 full carbon skimo race boot is Pierre Gignoux creation, shown here with 75 gram binding.
Check out the Radical ST 2.0, heel has 10 mm fore/aft travel via heel spring that's now included in all Radical bindings. Main improvement is a much more positive brake and anti-rotation lock, as well as the toe jaws being mounted on a rotating platform for possibly smoother and safer release similar to that of the Beast binding.
Rotating toe unit on Radical 2.0 may increase binding safety, or solution without problem?
Radical heel has what appears to be a super solid anti-rotation lock and brake lock.
New ski lineup for 2014-15, some new models, some the same. Denali looks good and Manaslu will be available as well.
Denali ski is presented.
Catalog page, Denali ski 2014-15
7-Summits used to be THE go-to touring ski. Will the new version deliver? Quite possibly. It's still an '80' waisted classic EU plank, but is fattened up to about 81 at the waist from the original 78, though maintaining essentially the same sidecut. Probably a bit lighter as well.
From what I saw, most significant changes in Dynafit products are in the bindings. Nearly all the binding get a facelift, heel ‘forward pressure’ springs, what appears to be stronger heel unit top plate, and a rotating toe unit that perhaps helps with safety and elasticity/retention but we suspect is more about chasing certifications that will facilitate retail sales. Thankfully, the Speed Radical model binding remains the same, and for anyone wanting the lightest and simplist Dynafit ‘pintech’ ski binding this will perhaps remain the sweet spot in the lineup.
Here is the binding lineup for 2014-2015
Here are the 2014/15 binding offerings, with notes. I’ll add to the blog post above.
Low Tech Race (Possibly limited life span, only recommended for racing.)
Expedition (Super light, no side release.)
Speed Superlight (Somewhat of a race binding, crosses over to touring, might actually be our favorite once we do more testing.)
Radical Speed (Our fave, same as 2013.)
Radical Speed Turn (The classic TLT with heel lift requiring spinning the heel unit.)
TLT Radical 2.0 ST Anniversary (Golden color plated.)
Radical 2.0 ST (New Radical with turntable toe).
Radical ST (Old style, continued from 2013.)
Radical 2.0 FT (New FT with turntable toe.)
Radical FT (2013 FT version of Radical)
Beast 14 (New version with simpler looking turntable toe, less weight, RV 14.)
Beast 16 (2013 Beast with a few changes, RV 16.)
Beast 16 (2013 version with large complex toe unit)
Speed Superlight. Could this be the best ski touring binding ever made?
For you tech oriented folks, more about the rotating toe unit: it’s quite simple, ingenious. Just a recessed turntable affair that you’d hardly know is there. In function, as well as smoothing out release the rotating toe takes over the elasticity previously provided by the toe pins riding in and out of the boot toe sockets (though this probably still happens at some point in the boot movement process.) In an ideally configured pintech system, the boot toe sockets work amazingly well in allowing the binding pins to ride smoothly through their range of travel. In the real world, however, it’s proved to be difficult to consistently achieve this due to manufacturing variances, system wear and so forth. That said, hundreds of thousands of ski tourers have been perfectly happy with non-rotating tech binding toes — for nearly thirty years! Conservative point of view? Yes. Main thing, with any tech binding system do a thorough release check on the shop bench. Everything should work smoothly, with normal release values, smooth exit from the binding (not catching or sticking) and smooth return to center action.
Speed Radical remains the same, and in our opinion is still the sweet spot in the lineup for any serious backcountry skier looking to save weight yet maintain full function. We recommend a 3mm plate (more or less) under the toe unit for less binding ramp-delta.
Expedition binding has no lateral release and what we suspect is probably an RV of around 9 for vertical release. We'll check on that. Idea here is minimal weight for folks such as low angle trekkers as well as extreme skiers.
Press Release Winter 2014-15
DYNAFIT CELEBRATES 30TH ANNIVERSARY, INTRODUCES RADICAL 2
30 YEARS LOW TECH
2014 is a year to celebrate: The Low Tech frameless binding system turns 30 years old. In addition to the outstanding success of the touring bindings, ski touring specialist DYNAFIT and binding inventor Fritz Barthel are also celebrating their longtime partnership. As part of the celebration and to underscore its expertise in the binding segment, DYNAFIT will introduce the new Radical 2 model three decades after the invention of the frameless system. With this new model, the development team has succeeded in taking a significant forward step in safety and comfort.
In 1984, Austrian Fritz Barthel had his patent approved for the system that years later became a groundbreaking
and globally recognized invention. Created in a basement workshop in Bad Häring, Tyrol, the Low Tech frameless
binding system rose to become a symbol of the athletic, alpine activity of ski touring. DYNAFIT has developed
and sold the system since 1989. Ever since then, the company has had a special partnership and friendship with
Barthel.After climbing Mont Blanc in the early ‘80s, the mechanical engineer decided his gear was too heavy. That’s when he started to ponder a totally new binding construction: “The heavy frame of the binding had to be replaced by the boot if you really wanted to save weight – weight that had to be carried along with every step.” Thirty years later, his first idea has established itself as the leading binding system in the sport of ski touring. Fritz Barthel looks back fondly on his early ingenuity: “Laziness is the mother of invention.” Today, the unique DYNAFIT boot-binding concept has become the foundation of every other similar product development.
At DYNAFIT headquarters in Aschheim near Munich, Germany, further developments use this foundation. After
the continuing evolution of the so-called TLT binding, the RADICAL 2 model will be launched for Winter 2014-15. The Radical 2 combines safety and comfort while weighing in at only 599 g / 1 lb 5 oz. The rotating toe piece is the biggest update. First, it functions as an additional release mechanism; secondly, it increases side impact resistance. With this new design, a precisely coordinated release mechanism of the toe piece and heel unit is guaranteed. The release can be easily set to a Release Value between 4 and 10. The Radical FT model, which is made for descent-oriented ski tourers, can be set up to an RV of 12.In addition, the stand height of the Radical 2 has been improved; a lower height ensures direct contact with the ski. In order to match the binding to increasingly wider skis, this binding also has an extra wide mount area.
Additional technical details:
– 10mm forward pressure for length adjustment when ski is flexed
– Available stopper widths 90 mm – 135 mmThere will be a 30thth anniversary limited edition run of 2,200 bindings with gold-plated components.
Dynafit Beast 14 appears to have simplified the somewhat complex toe unit of the first version.
Press Release Winter 2014-15
THE BEAST CONTINUES…
DYNAFIT BUILDS ON THE BEAST BINDING CONCEPT:
AND NOW WE HAVE 14
After the successful introduction of the Beast binding, ski touring specialist DYNAFIT expands the collection in the category of Freeride Touring, introducing the Beast 14 for next winter. The Beast binding addresses athletic, passionate Freeriders who seek a binding for every discipline and every terrain. The frameless system will now be combined with more strength up to a Release Value of 14. The Beast concept enters the next phase: The stimulus for this development is an ever growing target group that demands a freeride binding that combines comfort on the climb and performance on the descent. Weighing in at 795 grams / 1 lb 12 oz, the Beast is closer to being a climbing binding, yet still offers all of the characteristics of a sturdy freeride binding. The frameless system is equipped with a rotating toe piece, which is constructed to ensure a constant release value and to resist early release from side impacts. The heel unit takes on the technology of the Beast 16 binding, which releases at both the toe piece and heel unit. When it comes to the ride, developers Frederik Andersson, who is a former professional freerider, and U.S. professional skier Eric ‘Hoji’ Hjorleifson have realized their ideas: low stand height with 16 mm in the front and 23 mm in the back, as well as a lean angle of 6 mm. A low lean angle improves neutral ski performance and makes skiing easier on difficult terrain. In addition, the two professional athletes see both a binding’s torsional stability and high energy absorption as key criteria of a freeride binding. Thus, they have incorporated these characteristics into the development of the Beast 14. ‘Limitless Skiing’ continues… Next winter will rock!
Hmmm, here is the item I'm most interested in. Carbon construction 131-98-116. Rocker tip and tail. The ultimate powder harvester?
And check out the Radical boot. Probably more than I'll ever need, but how about you? What I like best about the boots is the power strap is now Dynafit's 'Motion Lock' system, consisting of buckle-strap instead of velcro, and with a small tab you pull on to quickly release for touring. This is a small improvement, but if you hate fooling with power straps it could be truly nice.
Nice power strap, no velcro, loosens quickly for touring. I'm installing on all my boots.
We like the look of this commemorative 30 years TLT6 boot, but the gold plated binding seemed over the top (is it really gold?)
NEO boot takes the place of ONE. The buckle wrapping over instep is a key feature we'd like to see in all ski touring boots. This is a full Pebax boot, presumably for a broader market due to standard DIN sole configuration that works with any of the frame type touring binding models on the market. Frankly, our question with this boot is 'why?' considering what is happening with the pintech binding system (essentially, it's going huge).
Tech binding system inventor Fritz Barthel gave a humorous presentation on the history of the tech binding, including sharing strange mechanical prototypes while wearing his special creative thinking headband. We were indeed celebrating the 30 year anniversary of the tech concept Fritz and his father Manfred started here in Bad Haering, Austria three decades ago. We'll cover this more in subsequent blog posts, but if you're interested in history remember to check out our binding museum using navigation menu above.
Other points I gathered:
-Dynafit is now making all their own boot liners (instead of sourcing from Palu) and all are thermo-moldable.
-The ski touring (not sidecountry or freeride) market is about one million people worldwide, with sales being a part of that.
– Beast 14 binding will come in at 1,600 grams, looks cleaner but still has heel with added vertical elasticity. Could be quite nice for the aggressive skier.
WildSnow.com publisher emeritus and founder Lou (Louis Dawson) has a 50+ years career in climbing, backcountry skiing and ski mountaineering. He was the first person in history to ski down all 54 Colorado 14,000-foot peaks, has authored numerous books about about backcountry skiing, and has skied from the summit of Denali in Alaska, North America’s highest mountain. For more about Lou, please see his personal website at https://www.loudawson.com/ (Blogger stats: 5 foot 10 inches (178 cm) tall, 160 lbs (72574.8 grams).
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lou.dawson.writer
164 comments
That radical boot is based off the best boot for ski mountaineering that Dynafit ever made. The new top buckle looks like a great addition to an already previous design. I can’t wait to ski that thing. The new liner, will be a welcome addition and way better than that older Pauloa design. gimmme gimme gimme
Killing it as usual with the Dynafit introduction news, thanks Lou. Karat weight on the gold plating?
… And I was thinking that G3 Ion will have no match for the next season.
Lou, can you let us know when the radical heel piece stops breaking. I’ve seen 3 different sets break 3 different times, in 3 different ways.
Rotating toe piece. I can’t wrap my mind around how that will make any difference. Due to the pins in place how can the boot rotate out of the toe without having already rotated from the heel. Must be more to it. Looking forward to more info on this.
Nice scoop. Gives me a reason to lean back and wait for 14/15 to update my gear. It hasn’t enough snow here (yet?!) anyway, in Confederatio Helvetica, as you now know…
Red, white, and blue beef boots… Yum
. . . I am pretty sure Hoji is still a Canadian . . .
Pretty sure DPS invented that ski 2 years ago….;-)
The gold plated binding will be the legit subject of as many jokes as you guys can come up with, keep it clean. As for DPS yes they are a god. More soon, had fun today touring and checking out all the new stuff. Will also try and get some beta on what they are doing about quality control. Lou
The weight keeps creeping up on all the new Dynafit touring bindings. From the specs above, the Radical will be 1.2kg/pair… The Beast still at 1.5 kg. A (the?) primary benefit of pintech bindings is lost with that.
I do welcome a better release at the toe for my telemark tech setup! However, for my AT gear, I’m not sure the minor performance changes balance added weight…
To counter the weight gain, I’d love to see more ‘race weight’ bindings that allow flat-foot touring (very few do at present – and I don’t believe any Dynafits do).
Funny that I still see no reason to change my venerable, simple Vertical FT12.
Lou, did Dynafit give up the hunt for the light AND reliable AND simple binding? Seems to me that the weight is of less and less concern with each new model…
Interesting to see the “trickle down” of technology from the beast toe piece to the radical. Where dynafit goes with the heel piece isn’t clear although it appears some beast technology (forward pressure) migrated to the radical as well.
What still concerns me is the boot/binding compatibility. Some other threads mentioned some fit issues between crosses of boot/binding brands. A dynafit/dynafit combo certainly mitigates that risk.
@TC, I was a bit worried about the lack of a flat position on the Speed Superlight. But I’ve actually done some nordic skiing on groomed trails with the binding (long story), and never noticed that I wasn’t flat on the ski.
I wonder if the low ramp angle of that binding, combined with the extreme range of motion of race-style boots, makes it a non-issue for me.
Dave
Wow; another black light weight ski from a company that should know better.
Matus, I agree that it looks like most development energy is going to the heavier bindings. Reason in my opinion is that the freeride and alpine market is huge and utapped so they head where the money is. I think we’ll still see plenty of options due to the proliferation of suppliers.
DIN certification would be worth a lot of money, too. Whether the forward pressure stuff is necessary or not, I don’t know if anyone knows, but it appears to be necessary to DIN. Indemnified bindings would have an influence on which bindings appear in shops.
Did Maruelli have a patent on his M2 binding? The one in the carbon boot photo looks quite similar…
Any word on who the Radical boot is aimed at?
Is it related in fit or construction to the Zzero 4 boots?
If it is a clean sheet design, what type of fit are they going for?
Will it be a stand alone boot or will there be a few related models?
Is that a complete lack of cuff alignment adjustment on the pictured hardware?
Zzero boots have never had a cant adjustment. I can make tehse boots happen for me with some foam sheets but I bet many have the skis not excactly flat on the snow therefore…
The Radical boot looks very Zzero-esque. If so, I could see myself longing for a pair at some point. Nothing fits me better than the Zzero mold, and fit matters more than walk mode flexibilty to me.
Any idea on pricing? The last round of innovation from Dynafit have been way too expensive IMO
I am in the market for the new bindings but the beast at 1,000 is not happening for me. The Vipec 12 from Diamir has a better price point, how do the 2 and the Vipec compare in terms of quality and performance?
Got an email this morning pointing out that the Gignoux binding predates the Maruelli M2 by a few years – even digging back through Wildsnow will show this to be true. Oops!
B6 I recall the boot is 1500 EU which seems very reasonable considering.
If the manufactures are all moving to incorporate significant travel in the heel component of the binding why not just drop the rear pins altogether and use a standard heel latch with some sort of lever to move back and lock out the heel component for touring. Then Lou no longer has to dream about Tech 2.0. Throw in the rotating toe unit and you have a standard alpine binding with tech tourability.
@Dbdernika: Weight might be the reason? The TLT heel interface is efficient at providing a stiff and repeatable boot/binding interface with little weight. Steel is low-friction and strong.
There are probably other ways to do it that are comparable or better, using a slightly different metal interface, but I don’t think a traditional clamp design could come close in the weight department to something like a pintech race heel. In 20 years, I wouldn’t be surprised to see everyone touring on bindings with heels that look a lot like the Plum 165.
It takes a while to trust minimalist bindings, but they really can do the job…
Any beta on Denali ski weight and pricing? Looking for something less pricy compared to DPS and La Sportiva in carbon.
Will you blog a Dynafit clothing update? My wife loves the mercury line of soft shells.
Dberdinka. there are indeed people working on heel units that are a clamp instead of pins, but yes the pin type design seems to always be lighter if done in minimalist fashion.
Much more excited about the Vipec binding than the radical 2.0 – seems to offer more features and still keep close to the 1kg mark!
Are there updates to the Speed radical?
What does the new speed radical look like?
@Dbdernika & Charlie; also, enough pressure to keep a clamp in place would almost certainly pop the toes, unless they are radically different than anything out there just now. the forward pressure on alpine bindings essentially facilitate the heel lock, ski flex but also aid return to center pressure for the toe elasticity. I dont think the pressure thingy really allies to any ‘pintech’ safety for the moment IMO.. what is needed of course that tech already has is a certain amount of travel which is currently being provided by the boot – binding heel gap. The new radical, ION and Vipec are basically doing the same thing, maybe in a more controlled way? As in no sudden bottom out. would be nice to see travel in the 20mm range though 🙂
I’m sure a lot of you have seen mission steeps with Xavier, Sam, Andreas Franssen by now. Note the binding system Sam Anthamatten uses in some descents. what looks like a locked out toe unit and the look pivot heel (one of the only alpine binding that releases from only the heel, i think..)
Dimitri – you are probably seeing Sam skiing on the SI&I system from CAST (http://casttouring.com/). Pivots do have toe release. The whole toe assembly (for the 15’s and 18’s) rotates around the upstand that is part of the baseplate.
As bland as it may be, I like the idea of no velcro in the power strap too. Just seem to chew mine up until they look terrible.
Amazing stuff for sure. Might have to look closer at the next Manaslu skis. This season I have drooled over the Cho Oyus and also the Grand Tetons.
Sorry about virtually going black here for the last few days, internet at the hut was not working well (rather humorous to see 25 journalists with virtually no internet). We’re back at our “office” at Low-Tech world headquarters in Austria, where the combined brain power in our dwelling place may cause magnetic anomalies felt as far away as Japan.
Am working on finishing up this blog post, as well as numerous trip reports.
Dimitri, I’ll get more info in a moment but Dynafit will have one model binding called “Expedition” that has almost no release and is designed for “no mistake” skiing.
As for “forward pressure,” yes, everyone needs to realize it is just a small component of binding design, not some kind of revolution in the state of the world. And yes, with alpine “toe jaw” bindings it does provide the return-to-center force, while with pintech the return to center action is created in other ways, definitely not by the “forward pressure.” Also, there is no real reason why if the pintech heel had slightly stronger pins on a wider platform, it couldn’t have a few more millimeters of gap and travel. What is has now when properly adjusted is enough for most people, actually. It can be easily tested in the workshop by flexing the ski. Lou
Billy, I added an image of Speed Radical, it is unchanged. If you want something with the rotating toe there are plenty of other options, for example Radical ST 2.0 used without brake…
Lou
Lou, I must say, you make this topic extra interesting by adding new bit of info long the day. At least makes me refresh during the day several time, hoping for new info. Feel addicted :-). Thanks for the great work.
RT, it’s been pretty funny really. I’d rather get it all done at once! But glad to get you addicted (grin). Lou
That Expedition heel is hardly new – Telemark-Pyrenees sold me some just like that (but black) about 9 years ago . . .
Hi l, u have pictures of a green boot and a brown/black boot at the end of your blog which both look related to the tlt6. U say something about a commentaries boot. Which is the commerative boot, and what is the other one? Could u say a little more about them? I am hoping they interest me more on the weight/price/performance graph than the other gear u write about in this blog, but I might be wrong.
Harpo, mouse over the green boot to read about it. Looks like the replacement for the ONE.
Friflyt says that the Denali will be “under 1400 grams”.
http://www.friflyt.no/Ski/Sniktitt-paa-neste-aars-Dynafit-utstyr
Here is the Denali info from the source, best they can do for a pre-production ski weight.
Length 168 176 184 193
Sidecut 130-97-115 131-98-116 132-99-117 133-100-118
Radius 21/20 22/21 22,5/21,5 23/22
Weight +/– 3 % 1190g 1290g 1390g 1490g
Tip 430R 430R 430R 430R
Tail 200R 200R 200R 200R
Dave, thanks for suggesting the mouseover to get the caption. Should be fixed now.
Lou,
I’ve often considered putting the RV 12 springs from the R-FT into the R-speed. Have you considered this or inquired about it with the engineers? I’m wondering if this is OK or not recommended.
thanks
Errorbars! Hooray!
Weight +/– 3 % 1190g 1290g 1390g 1490g
Long may they stay. When you’re serious about a quantity, there’s no getting around putting a number on your uncertainty.
@Billy, I would not recommend putting that spring and heel combination, but I don’t work for Dynafit anymore. Different models were designed for different parameters. There are products that can be mixed, matched, and reinvented, but hate to see you potentially comprimise that system that away. Just sayin
Hey Lou,
Off the topic but here is some info to add to the helmet debate
http://youtu.be/V1wwb18feVk
Billy, I wouldn’t recommend it, but know that one of the ways they get it up to RV12 is to just put a spacer/washer in the spring barrel, which has the detriment of actually reducing spring travel. In other words, if the Speed works for you, use what works, if you need higher RV, just switch to a Radical FT heel unit… Lou
Those white bases will be swell to wax .
:o)
Hey Lou,
Any additional information on the new Radical boot? What is it being marketed as? In place of Vulcan/Mercury or in addition to? Any information would be great.
Nice work, as always!
Jeff Brines
Earlyups.com
So when they say the expedition binding has no lateral release, does that mean that it doesn’t even rotate side to side at all? as in no flat on ski mode? Seems like a step backward from the low tech radical, especially considering they called it 185g. At least on the LTR you can add a flat touring mode by grinding the innards a bit if you want.
Josh, yes, the Expedition heel does not rotate. IMO it’s a very specialized binding with a small market. It’s a good sign that Dynafit will still offer this kind of stuff.
Josh, to me it looks like they took the toe of a TLTspeed for the Expedition Binding. This part is mainly made of steel (parts forged, other parts stamped) and not cnc machined aluminum as on the LowTech. I bet that they are not going to ask 800$ for the Expedition, more something like 400$. Perfect binding for the after work training session up your local hill where durability is most important and nobody needs a flat on ski mode.
I don’t know about you guys, but I would want release capability for training and touring. The expedition should only be used as a light full on no fall ski mountaineering project tool. It might be cheaper but, safety in release is a manditory for 99% of the market. IMO
I’m not sure who would want a binding that doesn’t release considering the available options.
It appears that Dynafit has reintroduced the original TLT binding at a very reasonable price.
Thanks louis. Paul – I think you’re confusing the low tech radical (not sold in US) with the low tech race. This “expedition” binding is basically a handcuffed, heavier version of the low tech radical, which has a rotating heel and comes in around $400. But you are right, it is the same toe that’s on the speed radical, which is the same toe that’s on the Radical ST&FT, which actually has very little steel in it (the whole base is actually aluminum, even though it looks like steel (dynafit really has the us market hoodwinked). As for realease… yea, the expedition binding is a step backwards in almost every way. It’s amazing how much dynafit keeps screwing the pooch on some things. At least their skis are looking good?
oh yea, and flat ski mode… as much as i agree and love the simplicity of a single elevator setting, for long flat tours like lake crossings and access roads, my toes and the rest of my body all agree that a flat on ski mode is still a very necessary feature, even for racing, especially considering that it can be done without any added weight.
Josh and all, regarding Expedition binding my take now that I study is it’s mostly for carrying on your backpack and skiing down. And for trips that have very little in the way of flat terrain. The best “expedition” binding if it was going to really get used for horizontal travel is probably something like the Radical Speed or perhaps the version of the TLT they still sell (which gives me faith that projects such as Beast have not totally skewed Dynafit to be an alpine/freeride binding company.)
Come to think of it, to clarify things I’ll publish some info on exactly which Dynafit bindings will be available 2014-2015. I’ll do it now.
Here are the 2014/15 binding offerings, with notes. I’ll add to the blog post above.
Low Tech Race (Possibly limited life span, only recommended for racing.)
Expedition (Super light, no side release.)
Speed Superlight (Somewhat of a race binding, crosses over to touring, might actually be our favorite once we do more testing.)
Radical Speed (Our fave, same as 2013)
Radical Speed Turn (The classic TLT with heel lift requiring spinning the heel unit.)
TLT Radical 2.0 ST Anniversary (Golden color plated)
Radical 2.0 ST (New Radical with turntable toe)
Radical ST (Old style, continued from 2013)
Radical 2.0 FT (New FT with turntable toe)
Radical FT (2013 FT version of Radical)
Beast 14 (New version with simpler looking turntable toe, less weight, RV 14)
Beast 16 (2013 Beast with a few changes, RV 16.)
Beast 16 (2013 version with large complex toe unit)
Intresting weights on the seven summit ski, 1290g on all lenghts!
I wonder when Dynafit will make an real expedition ski? Nanga Parbat and Cho Oyu are light but the GS shape is not good for steep skiing!
Ted, all ski weights in this catalog are pre-production. Only real weight you’ll get is when bloggers weigh a few production skis and average it out. That won’t happen for a while. I agree that the sidecut is not right for steep skiing… but I’ve been using Cho quite a bit for normal ski touring and honestly do like it. I’d still pick something like my DPS Wailer 99 for a true human-powered powder day, but Cho is my go-to for variable conditions and long tours when I’m tired from traveling. Lou
Josh A,
Actually, my favorite binding is a Lo-Tech Race binding from several years ago that had a TLT Speed toe-piece and a small heal-post with a 4-screw pattern that actually rotated around so you can tour flat. Toughest, lightest binding I have ever used and I bought it for $250. Sounds like Dynafit is going to reintroduce this with a jacked-up price.
IMO, the releasabilty issue is a solution to a problem that barely exists. People are going to blow their knees skiing no matter what–and I would be interested to see a real study on the prevalence of ACL injuries with DIN rated alpine bindings vs ski touring bindings. Anyone know of one???
I am starting to gravitate away from Dynafit bindings since it seems they are producing what they think the market wants and not making the kinds of bindings that they would actually consistently tour on. Trust me…you are not going to see a lot of Beasts on guys who tour an extensive amount.
My unsolicited $0.02.
Josh C
Josh I think that’s the Speed Superlight. As for sales the ski touring market is saturated so the big push is to get more cutomrs in the alpine sidecountry crossover. More power to Dynafit if they can do that AND keep making ski touring tech bindings.
Josh, I agree about the rotation on the toe; the Vipec to me on the other hand does seem a little bit more elastic less gimmicky.. but basically think it’s good that the big players are still willing to try out new(ish) stuff. i don’t doubt that the toe rotation will provide a better/smoother release (like the Audi cup holder), but only the elastically claims. I suppose time will tell 🙂
Off topic warning: Its funny that i hear a lot of mention alone the lines “the days of the garage binding maker are over” sort of thing.
Very strange considering the advent of material and stress testing within CAD, 3D printers & crowdfunding.
The days of the “maker” are actually here! There is just a different sort of knowledge required. programming & maths rather using a mill, lathe etc. We should be encouraging amateur innovation IMO.
I think its the “Low Tech Lite.” at least thats what it looks like on Brian’s website:
http://www.skimolife.com/journal/2011/1/20/light-and-fast-bindings.html
Wish I could find another new set somewhere. Love those things…
I added Speed Superlight catalog page to blog post above. It’s the lighter binding that has full release and tours, good for racing, presumably lasts better than the full-on race binding. Lou
@Caleb
I have skied on the Beast for 10 days now, Swiss alps, Silverton and Snowbird. to give you a bit of background what I use it for: I am using Marker Jesters for the past years and any switch to technical bindings was regretted quickly and I switched back. I ski basically only slackcountry and backcountry, dropping 30-45 cliffs (while doing back-flips and that kind of stuff). I would say I am far from being very good, but my style of skiing still requires a super solid binding with elasticity in the toe piece. For the past two years I partly skied on Dukes, it was the only binding with a walk mode that t felt kind of ok dropping large cliffs, but it is way too heavy and the stand is way too high. Also, although it looks solid, the whole construction feels rickety. So I was very skeptical about the Beast first but I gave it a try. I couldn’t have been more surprised. the beast does not just ski like an alpine binding, it skis better! It’s absolutely amazing the way it skis and you can definitely tell there is elasticity in the toe piece, better so than in an alpine binding, which, let’s be frank, is an antiquated piece of technology as well. In the 10 days I never even remotely felt I had to hold back because of the bindings. It’s very forgiving. Now I understand that for the touring enthusiast, this binding seems to be odd and has no place. Much heavier, clumsy to get in an out and admittedly totally overpriced for too much plastic, but for people like me, this is the answer. I am no engineer and I can’t say how it works, but it works. Now they only have to make a narrow boot with the same qualities.
Hi Lou,
The new Beast 14 toe looks very different from Beast 16 and closer to the Radical 2.0. Was the whole rotational mechanism redesigned and is the toe piece different on the Radical 2.0 vs Beast 14?
Thanks
Too many Josh’s… not sure who’s saying what, but the low tech radical is the current version of the low tech lite, if you will…
http://www.dynafit.com/product/bindings/low-tech-radical
which is not even imported to the US. Unfortunately, the Expedition binding does not have a flat on ski mode, letalone a rotating heel, ala low tech lite. (If lou is correct…) This makes the expedition much less desirable. Lou, can you ask them if they will continue to make the low tech radical, and if so, maybe slap some more sense into them and get them to sell it over here?
Thanks for all the info!!!!
Just order it from Telemark P., I’m sick of fooling around worrying about what is imported and what is not.
Buy local USA if you live here or don’t buy it at all. IMO
Even though the “low tech radical” is not distributed in the US, skimo.co carries radical toes (you can buy individually for $90) and race heels (you can buy individually for $110). $400 gets you a pair of low tech radicals.
That just shows how lame the whole system is… though good on them for giving a workaround.
Completely off topic question, but I need the answer soon and I figure this is the place to get it.
Do Dyna Comfort Toes use the same mounting scerws as Dyna Vertical ST toes? My recollection is yes?
“That just shows how lame the whole system is…”
Actually, I think that things are pretty good in the internet age, even if the NSA is tracking your every move.
My wife needed a pair of hiking boots (small size wide) that were only available from a Euro company. They had a NA distributor, but, it would have taken months for them to bring in the boots (they didn’t stock this particular model), plus the factory didn’t have any in stock.
I found a pair in Britain, and, they arrived within 2 weeks.
I like the local folks quite a lot, and, use them when I can, but as a long time
BC skier; I’m used to fending for myself.
harpo – correct
+1 on Skimo.com, they seems to have stuff together, they live it and know what to buy for the consumer. New company, dedicated to skimo. give them a try.
Bar, I agree that the worldwide shopping system is getting pretty good, sometimes already amazing. The “system” I refer to is the importing and distribution network that decides what to import, and the prices. Yes, I know they are just people like us trying to make a living, but with the way everything is going global they sometimes seem like a throwback. Lou
So… Have they “fixed” the Speed Superlite now? IOW allowing a flat mode. This binding isn’t (primarily) targeted at racers. Even with TLT boots or other huge ROM boots I very much dislike the high heels.
I agree – this could be the perfect touring binding but as long as it has no flat mode the ATK RT will own the superlight/adjustable market IMO.
Thomas, IOW? ROM boots? Instead of the ATK RT consider the SL-R: lighter, simpler. I am testing it at the moment. My first impression after 3 days of touring on it is pretty good. So far nothing to complain about. Mounting these without the adjustment plate has to be done with care, though.
Lou-
Any info about tech changes / shell colors to the DyNA / PDG boot for next season?
Question was asked above, but any news on where the Radical boot fits relative to Vulcan and Mercury? I thought Vulcan was already their lightweight too-stiff-for-most freeride boot, and now they come with a four buckle overlap boot, similar to the Titans that were dropped a year ago. Doesn’t make sense to me.
HW, Radial has the non DIN sole toe, huge difference! I think they saw the writing on the wall in that the world of freeride and touring is going to be taken over by tech bindings… Lou
Radical to my eye’s is an older Zero4 last. IMO the best mountaineering boot they ever made. It has a new buckle closure up top and also has a new much better liner again IMO, just in a quick touch. Prior to the success of the TLT5 series boots, this was a great boot for true mountaineering as it had bigger volume for standing at cold belays. Once the tlt5 came out it lost volume. Now that people realize the tlt5 is a specialized speed boot, this is what most people should be looking at for general touring and backcountry skiing. It is also not an overlap but a tongue construction. Way better for walking but not as solid for skiing flex. Don’t think bomber, just think better boot that before because of added features IE no velcro, but a cool new strap, and a much better liner that the previous Palau. All and all an updated great old design.
Glad to see the Zzero4 design come back. My second pair of Zzeros will be worn out soon and Ones or TLTs simply didn’t work for me, neither from the fit, nor from the skiability point of view. Will the Radical be similar weight to the Zzero4, ie. around 3kg/pair?
Lenka K.
Skian nails it. Also, don’t forget the trimmed toe.
@Paul: Sorry for spewing acronyms 🙂 IOW=”In Other Words”, ROM=”Range Of Motion”
I agree BTW that the ATK WC SL(-R) is a quite interesting binding as well as the Plum 135/145 in the light, simple and no fuss category. Do you want/need to adjust RV (Release Value) then the RT and possibly the Superlite has a niche.
Lou: Any news on the Superlite now having a flat mode?
@Skian
But all that you said…aren’t they the features of the One-Mercury-Vulcan Range?
As far i can see, the Radical boot has something similar to the rear tlt5’s spoiler instead the Zzero’s metal bar. maybe this could improve walkability in some way.
I also like the strap, but I don’t understand why this boot, and why now after they design the One-Vulcan…
@Pablo et all, IMO boots are first and foremost described by their last, all other features and enhancements aid in its performance. I am sure Lou and crew will give you guys a very detailed review after they have time on the boot on snow.
This is what I feel Dynafit should’ve done with the ZZero instead of shelving it during the intro of the Tlt5. Our lust for new sometimes affects brand direction, once the dust settles, only then can we realize the beauty of what we already had in front of us.. The one, mercury Vulcan range are a different last’s more built around the success of the tlt.
This boot will be an editors choice IMO, as here in NA I am sure now that we have a more mature (as in market) backcountry market, now that can appreciate performance over weight. Dare I say this on Lou’s blog. Light is right but late is great. It is the entire package, ski, boot, binding and individual which defines weight efficiency in a backcountry package, not one individual unit in the mix.
I look forward to having this mold back on the shelf. Go into your local Dynafit shop and let them know, you would like to see this ICONIC mold back on the top shelf where it belongs.
Discaimer: I do not work for Dynafit anymore, nor do I recieve any compensation in the form of money or product that I do not buy with my own hard earned cash, but spent 15 years working with this brand in sales on and off prior to my current focus. I also spent several years at Scarpa (another incredible family) and also worked with Morlean family who built Garmont in the beginning and in the end before Scott. All and all 20 years in this category.
This site and it’s staff and family have dedicated their life to bringing you the newest and best into NA. I am not here to hijack this thread, but when I see something amazing, the gift of the gab get’s me every time. Thanks Lou et all!
“get outside have some fun and enjoy the backcountry”
off to Austria, c-ya
great to know the ZZero mold is alive. Am I the only one who gets pinched into the achilles badly by the upper edge of the ONE/Vulcan mold lower shell heel cup? Stashed an extra pair of Zzeros for that reason.
Still waiting for a Dynafit boot with a factory beast heel fitting. Seems silly to be introducing new bindings on the beast platform yet require users/shops to mod their boots (if they can) to accept the fitting.
@Mark: The heel fitting is not difficult to install (major problem is almost no one has a #2 Pozidrive), and adding it presents some other issues when using non-Beast tech bindings (gap). IMO the installation should be on a case-by-case basis.
Latest fittings are better shaped, corners rounded off, I recommend for any agressive skier but Greg is right, check function with care.
Here in Europe PZ2 is the ubiquitous driver size for woodscrews etc so it would make sense to Dynafit.
Lou,
Has any info been published yet on mounting patterns for Radical 2.0 (relative to current Radical) and beast 14 (relative to previous beast or current radical)?
cheers
About 99% sure Rad & Rad 2.0 share mount pattern. More soon about Beast. Lou
Where’s the article about the 2015 scarpa lineup?! Just read about the f1 evo in a generic press release! Give us the beta on the auto walk/ski tronic mechanism!!
Having lunch in Asolo at the moment, which is delaying the Scarpa post. Sorry, but tortelini is a prority.
Quick one,
Does anbody know the Delta of the Speed Turn Bindung? Steep like radical or more like the original TLT Speed?
Daniel, I am your human search engine (grin). I typed “binding delta ramp” in our site search box, and look what came up! See the spreadsheet at top of post. Lou
http://www.wildsnow.com/10733/get-up-rise-up-stand-up-for-your-ramp/
Hi Lou
I know this spreadsheet, but Speed Turn is not in there…any idea?
Sorry about that, my mistake! No data yet, heading to ISPO then back at HQ soon where I can work on measuring stuff!
Lou, Can you speculate on how the Dynafit Denali ski will compare with the Movement Shift for performance in the backcountry? My main interest is in a ski that is moderately light going up but especially is forgiving on the way down in variety of conditions we encounter in the BC. Thanks. Andy
Shew.
Please pardon me for putting this question in a pretty irrelevant place, but I’ve coudn’t find a better one.
Question: has anyone made a backpack which allows you to grab, and preferable stow, your Dynafit ski crampons without taking the pack off or dislocating a shoulder?
I would love to have for example a broad elastic band at the very base of each side of my backpack, to shove the crampons through. Maybe with a small not-too-stretchy pocket attached, to be absolutely sure the bottom half stays put.
If you have seen this anywhere, I would love to know. My sewing skills aren’t quite up to modding my current backpack. A loop to clip them to is easy but isn’t good enough, as the clanging and flopping around is just too annoying.
Thanks!
Dynafit Broad Peak pack. Best pack ever for what you discribe. I don’t work for the brand anymore, but that pack is still in my quiver.
Laila, Dynafit Cho Oyu has the same velcro, side pocket. I think all the Dynafit packs do. I have found the closure to be very dependable although a number of commenters had trouble with it.
Laila, I personally don´t know the Dynafit packs, but I think they look great.
If you want your current or another pack be modified though but can´t do that yourself: I´d recommend a shoemaker rather than a taylor for that. My favourite pack for summer alpinism does not have the kind of compression straps I like, so I let a shoemaker sew on suchlike. A taylor normally doesnt have the right equippment for such kind of work. It´s quite cheap and you have exactly the pack you want.
Skis look especially promising, but I do wish they incorporated lighter color schemes.
This is an amazingly useful and detailed blogg-well done!
I am seeking advice to replace my 4buckle Aero FR boots with Palau liner that I got custom fit in Chamonix when I did the Haute Route. They are wearing out but am overwhelmed by the choice in the Dynafit range.
I ski away from the piste as much as possible- I am a good skier( I could get down Corbett’s but you probably would get me in there!), and need a boot that gives good control on the down, but will do more touring in the future looking at more hut to hut tours in Europe and Volcano tours in Chile.
Do I go Zzero or TLT 6 or Vulcan or Radical?
Help?
what about the stiffness of the Radical Boot? Will it be as stiff as the Vulcan? Will the Vulcan stay the same as this year?
Thx
No Daniel,
The Radical Boot it’s a soft boot. Very, very similar to Zzero4 PU.
It’s something like a Zzero4 with improved cuff rotation for better walkability and a much better strap.
Vulcan stay the same,
Pablo, thanks, indeed the Radical appears to be simply a boot to appeal to skiers who want to see 4 buckles, but with the added advantage of the Dynafit “Driving Spoiler” cuff system that walks so nicely. It’s most certainly not a Vulcan, though it’s probably plenty stiff for most skiers. Lou
Question for Lou (or anyone else in the know) on the new Radical 2.0 FT:
Has Dynafit done away with the unnecessary connector plate between heel and toe on the 2.0 FT binding?
If so, does this mean that the weight gap between the new 2.0 ST and the 2.0 FT will just come down to the weight of a beefier spring?
Do you have a claimed weight for the new FT version?
How about MSRP for North America? Around the $600 of the current binding?
I’d also be curious about the MSRP of the new Beast 14. Around $800 to split the difference between the FT and Beast 16?
Just spoke w/ Salewa USA, so I’ll answer my own questions for posterity:
Is connector plate gone on Radical 2.0 FT? YES
Weight gap between Radical 2.0 ST and FT: 40g
Weight for Radical 2.0 FT per set: 634g
MSRP for 2.0 FT: $550 ($50 less than old FT!)
Projected availability: December 2014 – Jan 2015
Was hoping to have a set for mounting next fall, but I’m going to wait this one out: I like the looks of that new heel.
Nice job Matt, appreciate the help. Lou
Does anyone know if all TLT 6 P’s will be the black/gold colour?
The pictured “golden” boot, as it says in the caption, is a commemorative model. So yes, the boot will still be available in the green color as it was this past season. Lou
Lou I noticed the new Radical Boot and wonder how the last compares to the One PX-TF/Mercury TF/Vulcan TF. I skied the One PX-TF this season as it is the very first Dynafit last to fit my foot (similar to yours with high arc, high instep, wide forefoot and narrow heel) though I did find the boot too soft for my liking on the descent; however, it worked beautifully for the ups. Should I consider the Vulcan TF with the Radical strap for this season of might the Radical be the solution? Your thoughts Lou?
Does anyone know if the Beast 14 can tour in a flat mode? The Beast 16 did not.
Beast 14 has same touring modes as the 16 – no flat.
Any update on the Radical 2.0 mount pattern? Same or different from Radical 1.0?
No flat mode on the 14 is really daft. I would definitely have bought it if it had. It’s not like just because you’re heavier or you ‘freeride’ that you never skin on some flat terrain.
Will have to stick with the Radical – I’m also interested in any update re the mount pattern.
“Nice power strap, no velcro, loosens quickly for touring. I’m installing on all my boots.”
So Lou, how do we get these power straps from the Radical boot? I talked to Salewa and was told it isn’t a part they sell separately.
Dang good question. I thought for sure it would be a SKU… time again for aftermarket I guess.
Has anyone skied the new Manaslu, new 7Summits, or Denali? Please compare them to their preceding models.
The Manaslu and 7Summits appear to have significant geometry changes from last year. Lou, what is Dynafit’s objective with the changes?
Appears Dynafit has shortened the radius of turn or increased the sidecut on it’s new lineup. My 2012 178cm Manaslus have 35/21m radius (22/19 for new 182 Man) and my much older 174cm 7Summits have 22.5/18.5m (21.5/18.5 for new 179 cm). I associate smaller radius of turn with snappy, easy turning, which is not what I want in variable BC conditions. I also think a straighter ski provides more control on steep ice. But have other performance characteristics changed to turn my expectations upside down, making the small turn radius ski stable in hooky crud and breakable crust, and make it hold like skates on steep ice?
Thanks so much for your insight!
Lou, I also noticed your interest in the Speed Superlight. I like the binding on smaller skis and am curious what you think about the 3-screw heal piece versus a 4-screw base? How wide of a ski would you mount the 3-screw heal piece on? I’m concerned the smaller heal binding plate would not transfer lateral weight changes to wider skis compared to 4-screw models.
I mounted Speed Superlights to a pair of PDGs for my 13-yo, for corn season. The releasable toe piece, compared to the non-releasable Low Tech Race toe piece, which I use on my DyNA, is a good safety factor.
I’m considering mounting the Speed Superlight on a new Se7en Summits for a Haute Route trip, if I can just get confidence in putting the new tighter turn radius on steep & icy. Always appreciate the group’s opinion!
Lou I noticed the new Radical Boot and wonder how the last compares to the One PX-TF/Mercury TF/Vulcan TF. I skied the One PX-TF this season as it is the very first Dynafit last to fit my foot (similar to yours with high arc, high instep, wide forefoot and narrow heel) though I did find the boot too soft for my liking on the descent; however, it worked beautifully for the ups. Should I consider the Vulcan TF with the Radical strap for this season of might the Radical be the solution? Your thoughts Lou?
“Nice power strap, no velcro, loosens quickly for touring. I’m installing on all my boots.”
It would appear that I was given the wrong info when I contacted Salewa. I have the parts catalog and the part number for the power strap is: 68355 color code: 0931 size: 265/285/305
Thanks Me, I still need to get going on this myself. Too many things on the list!
Hi Lou,
Do you have any more details as yet regarding the differences in the 2015 Beast 16 toe piece as yet?
I found this article regarding boot incompatibility with the original Beast toe. I have the Atomic Waymaker Tour boots, which is among those listed has having problems.
http://www.earnyourturns.com/25509/some-boots-incompatible-with-dynafit-beast/
Jeremy, this type of thing will not go away since there are no standards that cover how tech fittings are installed or anchored in the boot, and the DIN standard for the shape of boot toes allows for some variation. Truly, bloggers can try and stay ahead of the curve on this but it’s difficult. There is always something else that comes up. In my opinion this is where retailers really come into play. You should be able to just walk into a shop and try your boots in a given binding.
On the other hand, I know Dynafit and all boot makers continue to work on keeping things compatible, as doing so is in their best interest. Thus, I’d be optimistic if I were you and perhaps work out some way to at least try out the new lastest Beast 16 bindings once they’re available.
Just wondering, Lou (or anyone) is there info yet on whether or not the new Radical 2.0 with the “forward pressure” spring will be set up with the traditional tech gap or with the heelpiece all the way up against the boot like the g3 ion or the Beast 14? Trying to decide between these three bindings as a “freetouring” binding for the PNW, and I like the idea of deeper pin insertion in the boot heel.
Whew, good question Kyle! I’ll look around, I think we even have a set of heels with that “feature.” Lou
Kyle,
I have the bindings with the forward pressure spring up here in the PNW. I also took them to South America, and used them all last winter. They have been working great, with no issues. I haven’t noticed much benefit over a traditional dynafit, however. I could be mistaken, but I believe that they are meant to be set up with a gap like a traditional dynafit, although the gap is slightly smaller.
Kyle, I worked hard on blog posts about the heel spring “feature.” Sorry they’re not easier to find.
https://www.wildsnow.com/12758/dynafit-tech-note-radical-ft-heelpiece/
https://www.wildsnow.com/11635/dynafit-radical-heel-elasticity-travel-change/
It’s still a 5.3 mm or so heel gap. In other words the heel of the boot is not snug with the binding when the rig is at rest.
Lou
Awesome, thanks Lou and Louie. Super helpful
Re. the Neo Px. Is this the same last as the One, Mercury and Vulcan, i.e. will it fit the same or will its fit differ in any way? Cheers. Andre
It’s pretty similar, not sure about the “any way” part. Try calling Dynafit customer service, or perhaps talk to a retailer that carries the boots. Lou
Hey Andre
The shell will be the exact same size in a Neo as a Mercury or Vulcan (104.9 mm across the forefoot of a 27.5). Since the Neo is a bit more of a price point boot the liner will feel a bit different (Custom Plus in the Neo vs one with higher memory foam capabilities in the other) It is still listed as heat moldable though so with a good boot fit you should be fine.
Many thanks Lou and Doug.
I think I have decided to give my son last year’s One PX with a new Intuition Pro liner and treat myself to a new pair of Vulcan’s with toe buckle, tongue and power strap removed (maybe an Intuition liner after wearing out the stock one). Great blog…thoroughly enjoy it.
My wife anxiously awaits your Ultimate Quiver 2014/15 to finalize her choice of BC skis (Yvette RP2, ZenOxide Carbon, or Remedy102) for this year to go along with her new Scarpa Gea boots.
Cheers. Andre
It’s kinda strange how little Radical 2.0 information there is, with release being 1-2 months away now.
A few comments on it:
1) The rotating toe piece doesn’t appear to spring back to center without a boot in the binding. I wonder if it’ll be annoying trying to step into a toe piece that’s moving around.
2) Dynafit’s website says “new, wider binding rail, baseplate” and “bore-hole template designed in line with maximum norm dimensions”. That’s not a clear indication the mounting pattern has widened, but the wider heel piece/baseplate connection sounds good.
3) The new metal heel cap and brake look great.
4) The forward pressure system doesn’t appear to offer anything new that’s not in the 2014 Radical FT
5) Supposedly Dynafit lowered the binding so the boot sits closer to the ski (16/29mm front/rear instead of 35/49mm). A 20mm change seems hard to believe but it’s in the Dynafit brochure (link below). The bummer is that they went to all this effort yet the ramp is still almost the same (13mm vs 14mm). Under 10mm please.
Specs:
http://www.freeheelpress.com/blog/UserFiles/File/dynafit%202014%20bindings.pdf
A pretty nice sounding setup is a Speed Radical toe + Radical 2.0 FT heel. That would save the weight of the new rotating toe system, probably cost and it would give a zero ramp.
Looks like the mounting pattern is actually entirely new. Wider at the toe and longer at the heel:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=111953
Dan, I’ve not focused on the 2.0 since writing about it last winter, as there was a shortage of pre-production samples. It is a huge departure from the Radical 1.0, indeed I think it’s unfortunate it has the same model name. Confusing. The rotating toe release system is incredibly difficult to engineer correctly, so for me it is carpe skium before I start raving about them. I think the info you’re finding is pretty much accurate, but I wouldn’t totally believe what ends up in a catalog written about a year ago. We’ll have samples here pretty soon and Snowheads is doing a good job of eval as well. Lou
Dan,
Thanks for that Snowheads link – it answers some of my own questions about the Radical 2.0 as well.
Perhaps you missed it, but that thread directly addresses the ramp angle: the real, measured toe-heel delta on the production model is 7.5mm.
It remains to be seen if the rotating toe in the Radical 2.0 helps enhance shock absorption on the snow the way it does on the Beast 16, but given that you are used to the dynamic range of alpine bindings, plan on driving your touring setup with a beefy, heavy boot like the Black Diamond Factor, and plan on skiing aggressively, I would still encourage you to leave the speed radicals, fore & aft, alone.
If you still find yourself itching for more weight savings down the line, there a number of boots out there that will be lighter & offer equal or better downhill performance, or you can add an uphill-oriented ski & binding to your quiver.
Yeah I saw the 7.5-9mm toe-heel delta. Previously I didn’t realize that the connecting points at the boot heel and toe aren’t necessarily at the same height, so I was equating difference in pin height with difference in toe/heel height. It appears that the toe/heel pins are 13mm different in height (1mm less than old Radicals).
I returned the Speed Radicals and bought 186 Voile V8’s last night. I’ll plan to mount them up with Radical 2.0 FT’s once they’re out, and ski my S7/Duke’s in the mean time. Next season I’ll look more at boots (Scarpa Maestrale RS, Freedom SL, BD Quadrant)
I’m mounting up Speed Superlite’s on my wife’s DPS Yvettes right now (Dynafit bindings are 21% off at Campsaver right now). She’s light and a total finesse skier. I’m very jealous of a lot of aspects of them: mostly metal construction, no ramp, so light. Such a simple elegant design.
Cochise Pro Light is also in same weight & beef class as Maestrale RS. Dynafit Mercury as well. I’m in a Titan UL because I couldn’t make the Mercury/Vulcan last work for me, but they’ve also refreshed the older Zzeus design & brought it back as the Radical CR.
Given the growth rate of this segment, you’ll probably have a couple additional choices by next season.
So Lou – any thoughts on Dynafit delaying the Radical 2.0 series untili next season?
This must be a massive blow to this seasons ramp up on next gen bindings leaving the stage to the Vipec, ION and KingPin. I’ll be surprised if this doesn’t have a huge impact on Dynafit’s market share.
Hi Thomas, as they say, this will be the most interesting season yet in terms of the tech binding. As for Dynafit, I’m checking on what exactly is going on. I do know that invoking a rotating toe in a tech binding is a real engineering challenge. Beast is an amazing binding, considering. Radical in the meantime is a good binding without rotating toe, what with power towers, anti rotation, etc. Nearly all the bindings are in first season retail beta testing, even Vipec, since it’s been changed. Market share will always change, I think the binding with the least problems as well as staying light in weight will do well. We are all so tired of bindings being released then getting “inline” changes, so any maker who takes their time (Marker, Dynafit, whomever) is going to benefit in the end by keeping their reputation. Lou
The Beast 14 hasn’t been cancelled, so it isn’t the toe that’s the problem. Its the slidey heel, which is even more surprising, as don’t the most recent version of the original Radicals got a sprung heel?
Here is the official word on the delayed release of Radical 2.0
*****************************************************************
RADICAL 2.0 COMMUNICATION TO RETAILERS WINTER 2014/15
EARLY LAUNCH OF DYNAFIT RADICAL 2.0 BINDING PUSHED BACK FROM SPRING TO FALL 2015.
The Radical 2.0 binding, which aims to set a new benchmark in safety and comfort, was scheduled for release in limited numbers in Spring 2015. However due to a quality concern around one of its components, the launch is being pushed back to Fall 2015. The decision was made to maintain our high quality standards and ensure the trust of our customers and consumers.
Following intense inspection and testing, DYNAFIT’s quality management division was not satisfied with performance results for one aluminum component in the brake mechanism.
DYNAFIT immediately informed the component supplier that its performance did not fall within agreed tolerance ranges. Reproduction of the component will take several months,
and consequently, scheduled market entry for the Radical 2.0 binding has been delayed until Fall 2015.
To satisfy orders already placed, we have put an alternate plan into place. Radical bindings are currently available in sufficient quantity to substitute Radical 2.0 binding orders on a 1:1 basis, and we are planning for additional inventory to cover re-orders throughout the season. All retailers who placed orders for the Radical 2.0 model can take immediate delivery of the Radical binding. Our customer service team will be contacting all retailers with Radical 2.0 orders in the near future to assist you with managing these orders.
Thank you for your trust and partnership.
Ru and all, it’s tough to really know exactly what’s going on behind the closed doors of the engineering design department. The PR sent to shops is I’m sure accurate as far as it goes, but one has to assume there is more going on. I stand by my assertion that making a heel release tech binding work well with a rotating toe is not easy, and that could have delayed things as well. Yes, there is Beast, but it’s not the same binding. Making it all work with less weight might be tough, for example.
For what it’s worth, all mainstream tech bindings do have lateral (side) elasticity when they work correctly. The rotating toe in my opinion mostly makes the elasticity smoother and compensates for bad “sticky” boot fittings that block elasticity. That’s a bit different of a take than the marketing story (“you’re in, or you’re out”), and harder to express and understand, but in my opinion it is accurate, based on my years of experience seeing these things work and not work.
Lou
I am no expert in tech binding function, but it seems to me that the purpose of the rotating toe is to reduce pre-release by keeping the toe pins fully engaged within a certain range of lateral displacement at the heel.
Bummer on the new Radical bindings.
Lou: apropos availability of new Dynafit tech: any word on when the new cam-powerstraps on Radical CR boots will be available for order as a replacement / afternarket item?
Would love to retrofit my Titan ULs with those new straps!
See, that could very well be. But believe me, the problem of boots with incompatible fittings is huge. Improperly sized fittings sometimes have no elasticity, they “stick” and are either in or out. Rotating toe solves that problem, as it allows standard elasticity and release provided by movement of the heel unit. I think Dynafit is very smart to include the rotating toe, as the boot fittings causing the binding to not work correctly is a very real problem, and not just a problem for Dynafit. Loook at Vipec. They had to provide that problematic adjustable toe pin for the same reason.
Note that since there is no DIN/ISO standard for the boot fittings, the bindings certified by TUV to DIN standard 13992 have to using Dynafit certified fittings to be considered compliant with the standard. That’s how Marker will get around the problem of substandard boot fittings. That and the indemnification requirement that bindings be tested by machine at the retailer for correct release forces. I’m also interpreting this as the fact that a retailer who wants to be indemnified for Kingpin or Beast has to only sell the binding paired with a boot that has Dynafit brand fittings. Or perhaps they’ll have some kind of waiver the customer has to sign? Lou
Lou
Hi Lou,
Further to my earlier post on Atomic Waymaker Tour boots and Beast 16 toe pieces.
The UK dealer that I will be buying my Beasts from has just received a press release from Dynafit, which includes the following Beast information:
“Beast 14/16 – Compatibility With Non Dynafit Freetouring Boots
After testing most of the freetouring boots of the market which can potentially be mounted with a Beast 14 and 16 we came to the following results:
Black Diamond Boots
Black Diamond Boots are not compatible with the Beast 14 and 16, due to a different mounting pattern of the heel insert which makes the power-insert impossible to mount.
Atomic Waymaker 110 and K2 Pinnacle 130
Both boots used to open the locked bindings in the tour mode. Therefore the shape of the flap was modified and now the Beast binding is friendly with the Atomic as well as K2 boot.
Salomon Quest 120 with touring sole pads
The Salomon Quest boot opened the locked bindings in the tour mode. Although the shape of the flap was modified, the Salomon boot is still too big and interferes with the binding.
Please inform your customers about this issue.”
However, he has also stated that a number of his customers have been running Waymakers and 13/14 Beasts without any issues.
Any idea which factory makes the 2014-15 skis? I’ve heard that up until 2013 Dynafit skis were made by Blizzard, but since 2014 they are made by Fisher. Is that true? In particular, which firm makes the (new) Broad Peak ski (the one with the carbon lines visible under the top sheet) ?
thanks, George
Just to say I tried on and bought some Neo PX boots from Telemark Pyrenees today. I have very narrow heels and ankles, but big calves (too much hill walking) and this is the first ski touring boot I’ve found in 15 years that holds my heel down in the boot! I had to move the middle connector to it’s smallest location and use the tightest setting, but who cares. Note: the Neo doesn’t have any canting adjustment and there’s only one forward lean 15 degrees (I’ve always found 17.5 degrees too forward anyway).
I generally don’t use thermo form liners as I also get very cold toes and the regular liners are much warmer, more robust and make nice hut boots.
If you suffer similar problems with boot fitting – check them out.
Correction to last post, there is 17.5 degrees as well as 15 degrees forward lean possible on the Neos – but you have to unbolt a piece in the heel and flip it over. Anyway, great that when your out touring you’ve already selected the forward lean you want! Lost count of the times I’ve managed to set left and right boots at different amounts of lean – I used to paint marks on the heel bars to make checking easier.
Lou, Do you have any info on the changes to this season’s Beast 16 toe? Specifically there is a new little lever that pops up when the binding is open and on the plastic next to this it says “toe box adjust”. I read a single line on another forum identifying the flip up lever as a pin seating indicator, telling you if the pins are properly seated in the toe fittings. I haven’t seen any hard info on this anywhere. The bindings didn’t come with any real instructions and simply say something to the effect of “to see how the beasts work watch the video on our website”. Dynafit doesn’t seem to mention the toe changes anywhere other than the redesigned release trigger that they made lower profile so as not to be hit by bulky boot toes while touring that Jeremy C mentions above. What’s the deal with this little lever/trigger/indicator thing, and the “Toe box adjust” (if they’re no one in the same??)?
Not sure, but it doesn’t seem like a big deal… as for inline changes being mentioned on their website, that’s not usually Dynafit’s style. Perhaps we need another Beast 16 details post (sigh). Lou
The main change to the toe was to reshape the pair of metal plates that contacted certain boots at full forward lean, causing the toe to open even when locked for touring. The update apparently fixes everything except the Salomon Quest boots.
I was told by a UK dealer that the pop up toe indicator was probably a response to prevent potential U.S. liability issues. As often mentioned, experienced uses toe ‘waggle’ after clicking in their boot toe to check correct insertion/location. Since the Beast is likely to be used by the potentially less experienced ‘Freeride’ user who may not be as experienced, and wants to clip in and go, the flip up indicator was added so that it gives a positive indication of correct insertion. I assume it must have a fine tolerance, so that it allows for the fractions of mm’s difference between the pins that is the difference between correct and incorrect insertion.
Lou, or anyone else with an answer,
Is there a difference between the current speed turn and the radical speed turn?
thanks!
Does anyone have an opinion on the new Seven Summits? I took my Chugachs down the NW Col. of El Diente and they where not good on the hard snow at all.The Seven Summits may fill the gap in my kit, any thoughts
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