Unremovable Brake – Latest Dynafit Radical Binding
Addendum: Apparently all Dynafit bindings with brakes may be going to this “permanent” brake configuration. If you want the old style slide on/off brakes better get ‘em while they’re hot. Shop for Dynafit ski brakes here if you so desire.
Sometimes the “inline” changes manufacturers make are surprising. Indeed, a tingle ran up my leg when I saw Dynafit has made the brakes on their Radical series binding nearly impossible for the average consumer to remove. The tingle was a good thing, as the previous brake design required a retainer clip to install properly, and that little retainer clip was often lost or never installed in the first place resulting in ski brake sliding off the binding during the middle of your tour. More, now that the Radical heel requires an anti-rotation stop to be mounted on the brake retractor disk, you actually cannot run this binding without the brakes — if you don’t want a brake you need to retain the parts that interact with the binding and simply cut the legs off. So in that sense too, you might as well have the brake permanently installed.
Trapped brake of latest Dynafit Radical FT/ST series bindings. For different width brakes you'll need to buy different base plates and brake combos.
But I also got a chill when I saw this, since one of the best features of most Dynafit bindings has been the easy brake swapping you can do even with the binding mounted on a ski. Really quite ingenious. Simply pop the heel unit off, flick the retainer clip, slide brake forward off the binding base plate.
Please know that the way Dynafit intends customers to do brake width swaps for the Radical FT/ST is you’ll buy a set of base plates with the pre-installed brakes. That’ll be $79.95 MSRP and require both unmounting and partial disassembly of the heel unit. (Note that a handy DIY person can swap brake legs, even from other brands of brakes.)
If you want to remove the brake entirely for whatever reason, follow the procedure below. (Again, know that presently the anti-rotation feature of the binding is part of the brake, so the below procedure may be next to useless for most people. We present it here for at least educational value.)
This one gets a 5/5 difficulty rating (most difficult) since it requires actually making a tool for the job as well as taking your bindings off the ski. I’m not sure if dealers could go this far. Perhaps it’s somewhat of a non-issue since most people will simply buy a binding for a given ski, and never need to extirpate the brakes from their bindings.
Previous brakes were retained by this clip system. They came off easily, which was a mixed blessing.
To remove the trapped brake, you have to back out the length adjustment screw--asier said then done as this screw is trapped with a thread locked nut that's difficult to get a wrench around.
Looking at binding from underneath, it's necessary to hold the nut as shown while you back out the length screw. Thing is, a regular wrench won't fit in the small pocket where the nut resides. Solution: make your own wrench.
Official ANSI approved Dynafit nut removal tool is created from an 8 mm open end wrench, ground down to fit over the nut.
Once the screw is backed out the aluminum spindle post removes in obvious fashion. The black plastic is a threaded insert that goes in the base of the spindle. Reassembly is tricky. Use thread locker, and position the spindle at the front end of the binding plate when you start threading everything. If you thread the screw into the nut and thread the spindle from the correct position you'll end up not having as much adjustment range. Saving grace is if you're careful you can thread and unthread these parts multiple times. A power driver helps, but keep it on low speed so you don't heat up the plastic insert.
I’m going to take a neutral stance on this inline design change. I like that the binding is more reliable and that the anti-rotation solution is “built in.” On the other hand, I’m starting to feel pretty nostalgic for the days of the Vertical ST and FT models with their easy swap brakes, little to no need for rotation stops, and overall simplicity. Luckily you can still shop for either binding, check here for that.
We’re anticipating questions about what width brakes the Radical bindings will be sold with. Here is the breakdown. Radical ST will be sold with all three size brakes, 100 mm, 110 and 130. Radical FT will only be sold with the 110 and 130. To use a 100 brake with the FT and retain that model’s special baseplate you’d need to use the complex procedure above.
Comments
56 Responses to “Unremovable Brake – Latest Dynafit Radical Binding”
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Hmm. First thing I did with my FTs was remove the brake. Makes it way easier to swap the binding between skis. In that sense, I’d be disappointed with the new model.
Brian, if they’re a Radical series they’ll need the anti-rotation feature, which is now built into the brake… that certainly confuses the issue of removing brakes!
So do early adopters have to purchase the new anti rotation piece?
In my experience it wasn’t that hard to use the retainer clip with the original style of brakes.
An easier way to change brake size is to just swap out the brake arms…they’re way easier to remove than doing the procedure you suggest… very simple 2 part swap, leaving everything else in place.
I suspect that Dynafit has done this as a part of their apparent pursuit of DIN/TUV/whatever certification – as I have understood things, if you remove the brake you need to switch out the release spring in order to maintain the same release force. I believe the friction of the brake against the binding heel piece effects the release value.
Cam, stoopid of me not to mention that. Not sure what the availability will be for brake parts from Dynafit, but worth a shot for folks wanting to change brake width and not spend $$$. I’ll add this idea to the review. Thanks, Lou
Tom, my gut instinct is you are totally correct. As I covered in the following blog post, if chasing TUV certification helps the consumer, then fine. But as far as I can see the jury is out on that till the stamp is actually on the binding and we can evaluate as a whole.
Thing is, the competition in the tech binding market has gotten ridiculous. That’s what happens when something is essentially not patented. Dynafit is understandably looking to every advantage they can get. TUV will be huge, as they can get picked up by shops that are leery of uncertified bindings. Again, if it benefits the consumer, then great. Otherwise, just B.S.
http://www.wildsnow.com/6953/tech-dynafit-bindings-tuv/
Lou, I agree, Dynafit is looking to become the first (and perhaps only) certified tech binding. I’m not sure that certification is really a big feather in their cap. I think you have stated before that it is probably time to start working on Tech 2.0 and that is probably a better path to larger profit than certification is. I would suggest that they start working on a tech sole standard that is also compatible with alpine bindings – maybe you would just remove the rubber lugs rather than the entire sole blocks. Then people could truly buy the one boot for everything, and the increased potential market is huge.
Lou – do I infer correctly that if you swap out the brakes on a pair of last year’s Radicals, you get the benefit of the new “anti-rotation” feature? Any word on whether Dynafit will offer up the new brakes to those of us who bought the ’11-’12 Radical?
OK! Wild Snow. I am sold.
Rig is on the way. I down with Dynafit.
Wild Snow clones, no more NAXO jokes needed. haha. Dang, when i think of all those steps carrying all that metal, makes me tired.
Rob, you can get the external rotation fitting from Dynafit or dealers. It’s not a big deal, just the little black plastic thingus you can see in the first photo in the blog post. No need to swap brakes, but if you do, yes, you get the anti rotation jingus, or is that a thingus? (grin)
Mike, you were still on Naxos? That concerns me.
Sorry folks, I am afraid I do not see this new series of fiddles as progress unless it vastly improves safety or something. To make changes or running changes for ski crampon bar sizes or brakes or other stuff leaves me much less inclined to buy new stuff because of the built up base of previous generation parts/ brakes, etc. I am running on a bunch of different skis. This to me is like Apple going to new video plugs and stuff for Thunderbolt displays and external drives. Not much wrong I can see in the old and I am running a business and cannot justify to my accountant swapping out all the laptops we run just to make the older stuff compatible with new monitor types. So I look at this stuff as a real skeptic – probably driven by a “consultant’s marketing study” and a bunch of marketing MBA’s . . .
Are there any other skeptic non-early adopters out there?
Sign me dubious . .
I agree with Ed in that the continual change to Dynafit products (bindings and boots) has not motivated me to purchase the latest and greatest. I’ve still been using Comforts, which worked just fine for me, and I just purchased a pair of Verticals for a new ski setup. I went with the Verticals as they are a substantial cost savings over the Radicals, and the design is tried and true – who knows what next inline change may be necessary on the Radicals. I couldn’t see any performance advantage of Radicals over Verticals, and there may even be a performance disadvantage.
Lou, do you know if the Radical Speeds (which don’t have brakes) have any change to the rotation problem? Is it ‘use the brass pins or take them out and put up with occasional auto-rotation’?
A lot of people run without brakes.
If that problem still exists this season… I guess it encourages looking at some of the (many) other tech players.
Phil, we have to do real-world eval of the Speed before I can give you an honest answer. Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure Maruelli sells an anti rotation solution for the Speed.
I just sent back my old 11/12 Radical FT brakes to be replaced since the AFD spring got stuck on the old ones.
If I receive these 12/13 brakes I will have to remove the whole binding from the ski. I guess more people with AFD issues will encounter this problem…
Nem, I’ll bet they just replace what you send. At least I hope they still have a bunch of those old style brakes warehoused! If not, I’m going to be pretty bummed since we run about 12 sets of Vertical ST/FT bindings on all our test skis, and are constantly messing around with the brakes on those bindings (breaking them, needing wider ones, etc.)
No Lou not on Naxos since they went out of business. On Friche but i took a beating in a ws post some time back for Naxos.
To be fair, in some ways we liked the _concept_ of the Naxos, but man oh man, they were difficult to deal with from the journalism side, all the breakage and then the question of how much technique they required for side hilling. Oh, and then how poorly they tested out in terms of rolling deflection while in downhill mode. Still kind of cool how they helped with the stride.
Just got positive review from a Radical ST customer who is going to buy another pair. He’s a retired engineer, so when he removes the brakes (he HATES the added weight), he should do alright. Personally, I see the nearly permanent design of these brakes as potentially alienating to certain customers who may want to easily remove or swap brakes.
Mark, thanks for the comment. Hopefully, Dynafit isn’t marketing to a demographic of retired engineers (grin)!
Remember a big point with this is if the brakes are totally removed from the latest Radical, your customer is going to lose the anti rotation stop. That’s probably not a good outcome.
I’ve not seen or used the Radicals, but from all of your descriptions, it doesn’t sound like any of the changes made on the heel piece are what I would describe as useful for my skiing. And in fact, several sound like a step backwards.
How long are they producing Verticals? Should I stock up on a few pair for future skis?
If anyone has any insight regarding using afd brakes with Verticals FT’s I’d be interested (do they fit? do they improve binding performance?). I assume this would effect the release value due to reduced friction at the brake pedal/boot sole interface (the reason for doing it in the first place). I would adjust RV to compensate.
This is probably the sort of scenario that Dynafit is trying to prevent by “permanently” attaching the brakes, thereby suggesting that removing them is an unauthorized modification. Making the brakes “unremovable” would also probably reduce the number of people locking the toes to prevent losing a brakeless ski.
The weird and contradictory thing is that they seem to be simultaneously pursuing the “freeride” market, and making it harder for people to use the bindings in the ways that built their good reputation with this group in the first place.
Be careful about the new Verticals if you are looking for the traditional Dynafit easy-swap brakes. The MEC description indicates th 12/13 Verticals ALSO have the new unswapable brake… Perhaps Lou can check on that for us. I’m not too confident in catalog descriptions!
Dynafit is bumming me out. I love the new radical toepiece, but sure not happy with the direction of the heelpiece. I was hoping to purchase the old style heel piece with the new toe, but unfortunately that’s not an option. I really wanted the new Plum Yaks, but financial reality set in and I ordered another pair of the Speeds. Last season I ran the speeds without pins. This year I plan to put in the break away pins. I had enough auto-rotation incidents w/ the pins removed that I am going to suffer through the 270 degree rotation to engage ski mode. Seriously, DYNAFIT, seems like you guys are doing a lot of work to fix problems with the new design, when the new climbing post and TUV just isn’t worth it. Yes, there seems to be more competition, unfortunately it’s not driving prices downward.
Oh Dynafit,
I will always remember those exciting early days. You were an older woman, on the scene for years, but to me you were new. New and willing. We didn’t care if the TUV approved of what we did together — we were free! I’d touch you and you’d spin clock or counter-clock. It didn’t matter, we were rebels.
Life in the fast lane. AFD’s were for those poor saps stuck in the 9-5, but you and I were on a different trip. I’d grab your toe levers and pull as you clicked — one… two… three… four… we were locked in, baby. Locked in.
When did it all change? I hardly recognize you anymore. I feel like I’m trying to fit a Posidrive bit in a Torx head.
But let’s be honest, we knew it couldn’t last. I don’t speak deutsche or wear spandex. I’m seeing a French girl now and she really gets me. And she doesn’t get jealous of my Italian boots like you used to. I think she might be the one….
Good one, Drew. I’m digging that French embrace myself.
Indeed, there’s no substitute for elegance. It’s the svelte black dress of bindings; always in style.
Drew, that is great, thanks! Lou
Phil, I checked the MEC Vancouver stock of Dynafit Vertical ST and they still have the old removable brakes. It’s just a typo on the website since they copied the information over from the Radical ST.
@ Christian
Yes! I was just down there doing the same thing.
Perhaps Lou can delete my comment above. The Vertical ST still has the swappable brake.
So how hard is it to actually swap just the brake legs? I’ve got swap plates on my skis and was planning on going brakeless for at least one pair to avoid buying another brake, but it looks like I’m not going to be able to do that easily now.
re. Dynafit Speed Radical
I just received an update bulletin from Dynafit that talks about the changes made to the Radical bindings for 12/13. It will be interesting to see how these play out with real testing…
For anti-rotation control for the Speed (no brake) version:
“… the housing and baseplate lock into each other by downward force on the climbing aid in walk mode.”
The diagram isn’t very clear, but it looks like there are serrations on the lower plastic baseplate that the heel unit can catch on when loaded (?).
Dynafit also talks about making changes to all the different Radical bindings (Speed/ST/FT):
* the heel unit housing (on all Radical models) that reinforce its structure. I expect that is likely in response to all the pin-related housing breakage last season.
and,
* “… the hardness and surface coating [of the flip-down climbing risers] to eliminate the hydrogen embrittlement issue and improved the strength and durability considerably.”
So, it does sound like there were numerous changes made for this season.
It will be interesting to hear from Lou and other users once they get some time on this years bindings.
We’ve got bindings coming for a look-see. Indeed, should be interesting!
I’m glad to be a small dude and can run brakeless fine with Radical speeds. I agree the added brake fixation seems it could be a headache.
Posted this in another string as well….I just spoke to Dynafit, and arranged to get a set of the anti-rotation devices for the brakes to retrofit my ’11-’12 Radicals. (Big kudos for their customer service.) I asked about the pins, and was told to go ahead a remove them. I will, of course, defer to the High Priest of All Things Dynafit on that issue….Lou?
I’ve just bought a lovely pair of Movement Bond X with Dynafit Vertical STs. The dealer I know for decades. He owns 5 big stores south of Munich and stocks hundreds 12/13 Dynafit bindings. We checked the latest deliveries of Radical STs and apart from the anti-rotation devices shown in Lou’s pics further up, absolutely nothing visible has changed compared to the original release. If the housing material can be improved so that the original pins work as intended, we should see a fading out of the external ARD. We’re short of any insights how many thousands 11/12 Radicals remained in Dynafit’s stock once the massive problems occured rearly last season. Unless they’re sold, the ARD won’t disappear. If ever.
I went for the Vertical ST due to the significantly higher second heel lift mode and a silent brake in ground zero mode.
Just to confirm what has been said above, if you bought 11/12 Radicals (ST/FT), you should be able to add the screw on brake anti-rotation devices by warranty. If you can’t do that locally, you can contact Salewa-Dynafit Distributor (if you are in the USA). Either by email on their website or calling them (303-444-0446).
They’ll send you the little plastic stoppers.
They also confirm that if you add the external brake arm device, you can remove the internal pins. (of course, the external rotation device doesn’t work if you don’t run with brakes – so then leave the brass pins in the housing).
Anti-rotation locks successfully installed. Dynafit got them mailed to me in just a few days time. BTW, the package didn’t include any intallation instructions, and although it’s fairly obvious, Lou’s photo in this blog post is helpful. I tried to install them without removing the heel piece at first, but soon realized it would be much easier if I removed it.
As to removing the pins, unless you are more skillful than I, those little buggers will fall out when you remove the heel piece, and you probably don’t want to fiddle with putting it back it, so the decision is an easy one!
Incidentally, one of the two pins in mine was visibly bent, so I’m glad it’s gone.
the sliding release plate on the brakes has come off my radicals. I still have the plate and spring but I’m having trouble re installing it. if you have any tips that would be great. Also I have first generation radicals I have added the anti rotation fitting to the brakes but I haven’t changed the pin. It does seen hard to remember to only turn the heel one one so i haven’t bothered changing it but is there still risk of damage the binding?
any thoughts on the above question?
So, would it be possible to have two different base plate/brake combos mounted on two pairs of skis, and just swap heel pieces between them? Or do you need to remove the base plate to get the heel piece off? It seems like if you could just switch heel pieces, this would actually be nicer for a multi ski quiver, because you would only need to install inserts for the toe piece.
Mike, you could do exactly that. Not sure how much the base unit costs or if even available without the upper housing and parts.
Personally, I’d tend to just do inserts front and back.
Thanks Lou. I’ve heard you can get the base plate/brake from Dynafit for $80/pair, but I’m not sure what parts that includes.
Mike, I checked on that a while ago. If memory serves, that’s the _whole_ rear unit, idea being that now with the fixed brakes (frown) you have to obtain entirely new heel unit if you want to change the width of your brakes. I actually can’t believe they went this route, instead of improving existing swap-brake system which was/is beautiful. I suspect it’s because of the TUV vacuum cleaner and dishwasher testing engineers dabbling in ski gear… but I could be wrong. And I’ll concede that perhaps it’ll be better in the long run, jury out on that…
Hey Lou, my daughter has the previous gen DynaFit Vertical ST bindings on her skis, and when she took her skis off today, she had a brake come off one of the bindings. I’ve never heard of a brake popping off. The binding seems fine and she skied the rest of the day without any issues. I see that I have to remove the heel piece to reinstall the brake, bummer.
Is this a problem with the Vertical ST bindings?
John, it’s only a problem if the bindings and brakes are installed incorrectly. Lou
I hesitate to continue the linguistic nit-picking, but perhaps you meant “extricate” not “extirpate?”
(Also, those BC photos are superb. Thanks again to Lou and the wildsnow team for producing such consistently excellent content.)
See, I was just having fun with the language… but yeah, “extricate” or even good old “remove” would probably be better.
Glad you’re enjoying the content, working hard on it here as always. We’ll be heading back to Colorado soon, then over to Europe soon for Dynafit product launch and some travel fun, so stay tuned.
Lou
I didn’t have a small enough wrench to hold the locking nut, so I just cut the thin metal holding the break on to the post with a dremel tool – real quick, just be careful not to nick anything!
I really hate breaks on dynafits, they seem to jam, make it more difficult to get into the bindings and just generally be a pain.
Great blog and comments. I removed the brakes before mounting the Radical FT bindings and purchased a set of Vertical brakes, so I now still have the option to go with or without brakes depending on where I’m skiing.
The Vertical brakes perfectly fit the Radical FT binding. However, I did make one modification to ensure full compatibility as the plastic pedal that your boot heal depresses is different between the Radical and Vertical brakes … the Radical brake has a sprung plate insert that allows your heal to slide laterally without friction during release, no such plate exists on the Vertical brake (the inherent friction with the Vertical brake is why I assume they are supplied with a replacement set of heal piece springs). I therefore swapped out the plastic pedals so I have Vertical brakes but with Radical pedals. The easiest way to do this swap is to press out the hinge pin on the rear edge of the pedal. I used a nail as a punch.
Phill, nice job! Beware that the AFD on the Radical brake actuator pad (pedal) may have durability issues, let us know how it goes.
As for how necessary the AFD is, the jury is out on that. Word on the street is it’s just there for possible TUV certification and really has no practical value. On the other hand, I have tested certain boots that seemed to have undue resistance to release due to how the lug soles on heel interact with the brake plate, so perhaps it has some practical value.
Lou
By the way, I spoke with Salewa last week and they advised that the Vertical bindings will be discontinued next year. So it’s time to snap them up, or the brakes at least, if you don’t like the idea of non-removable Radical brakes.
Now I’ve completed my removable brake mod, the big issue I’m finding with the Radical binding is the side towers on the toe piece. These are supposedly designed to allow you to step in easier … all well and good if you have a firm flat surface to push against. However, in powder on a steep pitch they are a PITA ! Primarily as you have to get the sole of your boot perfectly in plane with the plane of the ski before pressing down … no longer can you hook a pin in one side of your boot and just rock your foot sideways to engage the toe piece. Expect longer transition times because of this (even if you’ve mastered removing skins with your skis on you’ll encounter the problem on the steep pitches that you boot up with skis on your pack). The trade off is the time saved on the ascent using the flippable heal risers (these work great and are the reason I bought the Radical).
Phill, yeah, that’s been the common wisdom, that those bindings would go away sooner than later. Quite a drag, as the wide-brake Vertical FT (has stronger toe springs) configured with an ST toe base plate and cosmetic connector plate chopped off is the best Dynafit binding ever produced, in my ever so humble opinion (grin).
OK so this a little off topic, I just got some Radical FT bindings (3rd pair of Dynafits) as wife and I got new skis and swapped my not so old Vertical FT’s to my wifes new skis. I should of kept the Verticals. A few days of use and the rear heels on both bindings are super loose, they rock back and forth, it’s not the mount. Tech took them apart a few times and pulled apart a Radical ST’s as well which don’t move a bit. There seems to be another clip at the base in the ST. Anyway, Dynafit is going to replace the brand new bindings which is great. But it’s a bit of a bummer since we are rapidly running out of ski days here and of course no other FT at the shop. I really wanted to use my new skis and boots a handful of days to have everything dialed for next year.
I was curious if anyone else has had this problem, if it’s a known issue or if something is missing. I even brought the bindings to another back country shop and they brought over another tech from another shop next door to try and trouble shoot. Given the cost I am a bit disappointed, I know things happen and I appreciate Dynafit replacing them. Do I need to have concerns about re-mounting the new ones in the same holes. They are on some Volkl Nanataq skis which are just wood, should I be concerned about any longer term issues with the holes being reused, they tried to tighten them a a bunch of times already into the skis so was worried about the holes being stripped or getting loose over time?