Marker Duke Binding — John Wayne Would Be Proud

53 Responses to “Marker Duke Binding — John Wayne Would Be Proud”

1. Ken Gross June 18th, 2007 10:14 am

   I climbed and skied Drift Peak recently, and my Partner used Alpine Gear with Treckers. He was using Garmont Endorphine Boots, with the plastic soles because of the Alpine bindings. He was willing to lug the extra weight and deal with Plastic soles on the climb, in order to have the rock solid performance on the way down.I didnt envy him on the way up… although when it came time to ski 2200 vert feet of 48+ degrees… I was a little jealous! I think a good weight comparison for this binder would be to compare it against the weight of Alpine Binders + Treckers, since that will probably be a big part of the market for these things.

2. Lou June 18th, 2007 11:24 am

   Ken, good idea, I’ve got some Trekkers at WildSnow HQ and will do that as soon as we return from Lander. Lou

3. Wingnut June 18th, 2007 12:41 pm

   The Holzt in the background is a nice touch! Adds to the perception of the Duke as a formidable backcountry weapon!

4. Mark June 19th, 2007 4:09 am

   I think the Duke is the brawniest binding I’ve ever stepped into. It’s way stout, and way heavy. Let the TGR cliff huckers do their worst!

5. Tony June 20th, 2007 3:51 pm

   Lou, could you buy extra mounting plates (the plate the Duke slides back and forth on) so you could use the same binding with different skis?

6. Lou June 20th, 2007 4:19 pm

   Tony, that would be excellent, but no, it doesn’t work that way.

7. Tony June 21st, 2007 9:13 am

   Lou, does it not work that way becuase of the way the binding is made, or because Marker doesn’t have the mounting plate track available seperately?

   Also, what is the low din on these?

   Thanks, Tony

8. Jarrod Blouin September 12th, 2007 9:28 am

   What a lot of great info on this binding. Thanks to all that contributed to my knowledge. How well do you think that the Duke binding will hold up on rails and jumps. They (Freeskier Buyers Guide) claims it will perform just like their Jester binding, yet allow for touring? Sweet video on that binding. This site is sic.

9. Jarrod Blouin September 12th, 2007 9:30 am

   oh yeah, what ski is the binding on in the info video?

10. Lou September 12th, 2007 9:39 am

    Hi Jarrrod, thanks for checking out WildSnow.com!

    I think the Duke might hold up well, but jury is truly out on that till some of you young turks get the thing out there in the real world.

    Ski they’re on is a Volkl T-rock.

11. Lou September 12th, 2007 9:47 am

    All, I just noticed I hadn’t done the comparo of Duke with Trekker/binding.

    Since alpine bindings vary quite a bit in weight, this is ballpark. My Trekker/Salomon combo weighs 53 ounces per binding, while the Duke weighs 47 ounces.

    So there you go, the Duke should walk easier. Trekker combined with lighter weight alpine binding might be closer but will probably still weigh a bit more.

12. GN October 15th, 2007 4:30 pm

    You mention the AFD angular adjustment. Both myself and my girlfriend are looking at replacing our worn tele boots with the Scarpa or Crispi NTN boots, which is very similar to a Scarpa F3. Would the AFD support the bellows on such a boot? Also, how does the binding adjust for different sole sizes as their are two binding sizes?

13. makossa October 17th, 2007 7:30 am

    Why not buy a Dynafit for Downhill Performance:

    http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=379

    Marker Duke
    ——————– (19 units deflection from vertical*)

    Dynafit
    ——————– (20 units deflection from vertical)

14. Lou October 17th, 2007 1:19 pm

    deflection isn’t everything, in fact it’s only a small amount of the equation…

15. JimmyfromTruckee October 29th, 2007 10:11 pm

    Lou-
    I just received my new Marker Dukes. After analyzing the function, I am a bit surprised on the R and D. You have to get out of the binding to switch between tour mode and ski mode. Though it seems logical to stop, remove skis, remove skins and then ski, I have switched to touring mode in my Fritschis on several ski descents in an effort to approach different terrain without skins. Also, I am anxious to see if sliding the binding back into ski mode will not be compromised by clogged snow. I don’t know; I guess you have to give a little to get such a bomber set-up.
    JimmyfromTruckee

16. Lou October 30th, 2007 5:40 am

    Jimmy, didn’t I mention in my evaluation that one has to exit the binding to change modes? If not, I was probably assuming it was obvious from my video, where I do mention this aspect of the binding. I’ll make sure it’s mentioned in writing.

17. Pasi November 20th, 2007 2:36 am

    Hi,
    great articles you have here about the touring bindings!

    A question about the marker duke:
    Is there any toe release mechanism in the duke or does it just release from the back? I mean some alpine bindings rotate on the toe to be able to release the toe on sideways directed force.. So do the wings turn on the duke or what?

18. Lou November 20th, 2007 7:01 am

    Pasi, indeed it has normal side release at the toe like most other bindings.

19. chskier November 20th, 2007 10:29 pm

    I don’t know. The shop owner in town here in the flat land was very proud to show me the first Duke + Alpine ski combo (Legend Pro) for a customer who is eager to “…do all that back country stuff.” but when I held it in my hands and inspected the bindings I got a little worried for the guy who will ski these things. So heavy. Man, I chide myself for standardizing to Frischi + Salomon, Karhu and, Line, Garmont but I think I would be disappointed if I had to lug around this guy’s gear.

    Then it came to me……this might be a good thing. The guy will try it once or twice and then decide that it’s too much work to earn his turns……thanks, Marker!

    BTW, it appears that the heal assembly is cast. I hope it’s aluminum but it looks and feels like iron.

20. duilio February 6th, 2008 7:39 am

    Any of you have tried these markers duke skiing wide on 113 (volkl gotama). You had difficulty finding
    Rampant ski so wide ?????
    Thanks
    duilio

21. Cody.p June 9th, 2008 8:57 am

    The Duke- a great binding to have on top of a mountain. Not a good climbing setup. Nebraska style climbing bars, weak edge setting capability and can be a liability changing from hiking to alpine mode on steeps. I’ll stick with my fritschi’s. Professional Ski Patrol member.

22. dave downing June 9th, 2008 11:20 am

    i mostly agree with cody.p but they would be a sweet inbounds setup for those days when you want the best binder for hard pack, and might hit up some side-country as well. plus then you have a nice backup BC setup.

23. Cody.p June 10th, 2008 10:40 pm

    Thats why they make the jester.

24. Cody.p June 10th, 2008 10:47 pm

    The jester is for the resort man (sick binding). and if your only headin out the gates, especially here in steamboat, its again impractical to switch from tour to alpine- our snows deep. I’m saying the duke is an average A.T. binding at best.

25. dave downing June 11th, 2008 2:34 pm

    @cody. but the jester wouldn’t accomplish my thought of sidecountry, in which you have the option to tour, and therefore need a touring mode. as for swapping to touring mode in deep snow, keep one ski one while switching the other. same as my buddies who insist in always removing skins with a ski off.

26. Cody.p June 16th, 2008 7:37 pm

    Dave- have a coke and smile and listen- they only made this binding because cliff hucking has become a fad. As well as tell your friends where you skied that day Mr. side country, try other systems than your super smelly duke wonder. I’ll be leaven you behind duck walking with my alpine setup while you HAVE TO (you did know you have to take off your ski to walk didn’t you?) And dave, couple more things- the duke is just the jester with a small plastic sheet under it that slides to lock and unlock- Its sidecountry man, open your vents and walk, you can’t have that far to go- people who take off their skis to to take skins off only are doing it to annoy you- and I must admit in the end i still not pleased taking it out on you that i bought this trendy piece of s@$%

27. Lou June 17th, 2008 8:08 am

    Duke fills a niche, nothing more nothing less. I really is an alpine binding that you can tour with, rather than a flexy touring binding pressed into service as an alpine binding. It’s the only binding that fills that niche, and thus has a place.

    As for taking skis off to switch modes, that’s so common for people with any binding it is ridiculous to worry about it. Sure, for real ski touring it’s nice to switch modes on the fly without removing skis, but not essential to a good day of backcountry skiing.

    Weight of Duke is the biggest downside. But people have ski toured with gear that heavy for hundreds of years. Not that spoiled Dynafitters such as myself would even think of doing so for a second (grin). Though I did test the Dukes to keep my cred up…

28. Cody.p June 17th, 2008 9:00 am

    Test the dukes!? (i hope you really did given you run this diatribe about them)- you must have taken them out, what, like twice? and what niche are you talking about? Really. I could have swore this type of invention was already created. Equipment failures and blowups happen to any setup even “spoiled dyanfitters”, such as yourself, and the dukes are certainly not immune. So don’t say they’re any tougher because a piece of metal on the toe and heel. Fundamentally its strength comes from its base plate, flowed by the skis wood. I’ve seen a pair of Dukes toe piece ripped right off by a fellow patroler just skiing. “The Weight”?! “Biggest Downside”?! Lou, did you really take these things out? P.S. Lou: people have been touring for thousands not hundreds of years.

    What’s wrong with me saying the duke sucks? I’m just trying to help.

29. Cody.p June 17th, 2008 9:11 am

    One more thing- THE DUKE IS AN EXTREMELY FLEXY CLIMBING SETUP MAKING IT VERY HARD TO SET AN EDGE ON STEEP ACCENTS. one of its biggest problems . Along with, but not limited to: shallow climbing bars that can be difficult to flip @ times. A stupid switch placed under the boot?! for what? keep you in the ski? I’ve never seen a binding switch modes in a decent. And if so its probably user err. Lous favorite, the weight, which after a mile or two (no mater what you use) you get used too. And its not a big deal, but snow does seem to get into the base plate groves. But if you’re hefty person-sorry- this binding may be your only choice.

30. Lou June 17th, 2008 9:24 am

    Cody, did I say you were doing anything wrong? I’m glad you drop by and leave your op ed.

    As for touring thousands of years, indeed yes, but when they were attaching skis to their feet with tree roots the gear was lighter.

31. Cody.p June 17th, 2008 10:09 am

    Lou, lets never fight again.

32. Lou June 17th, 2008 10:15 am

    Okay, deal (grin)!

33. Cody.p June 17th, 2008 10:21 am

    But lou, i doubt their gear lighter.

34. Lou June 17th, 2008 10:37 am

    Some early gear was lighter, I’ve picked those rigs up and handled them. Some of the early leather boots were also quite a bit lighter. Depends on the era and type of setup.

    Another thing to remember is that some of the more popular AT bindings of past years have been in the same weight class as the Duke. Emery Altitude from 1980s (with Look style heel) weighs 41.7 ounces and people toured all over the place on those. Duke weighs about 5 ounces more, which while heavy is indeed the same weight class. Marker’s binding of the same era, the M-Tour, weighs 46.1 and lots of people swore by those (virtually same weight as Duke, which is 47.1 oz).

    I guess my point is that for a binding to be too heavy for touring it would need to be heavier than Duke.

    And Cory, please don’t get me wrong. I’m no fan of how heavy Duke bindings are. My point is that they actually do work for ski touring, albeit as a compromise to the alpine side.

35. Cody.p June 17th, 2008 12:27 pm

    ummmmmm. I’m confused. something you were saying about twigs and branches as lighter. crazy people in norway hunting mammoths. Not comparing the some 80’s binding to the piece of dukes weight. good quick research on all those numbers.

    and then your saying for a binding to be to heavy, it would have to be heavier than than the duke. And then say your not a fan or in other words, think its to heavy? you must not be getting my point-compromise on the alpine?

    I’ve been talking about touring.. ?

36. Lou June 17th, 2008 1:29 pm

    Duke is heavy, a compromise, I agree.

37. Kezza K July 7th, 2008 1:40 am

    Aussie ski patroller. Almost half the patrol gang are going for this binding this year. Some of us are even patrolling in touring boots (for comfort as we get older, and for sole grip). Seems like this binding is a nice combination of stability for primarily ski mode, but with the flexibility to free you heels if you should want to. Most agree that for extensive touring it may not be ideal. Several patrollers have them on Pub Enemies, and were impressed at how well the binding actually stiffened up the ski.

38. Steve langer November 2nd, 2008 8:04 am

    Ski performance with Duke?

    I have always used an alpine set up and decided to go with the Duke last year to give me more options when I am out with my adult/kids.

    I am a well accomplished powder skier who can normally ski on any set up without problem. The Dukes are mounted on a pair of Salomon 1080 Guns 714cm, and I skied them in the backcountry in a few feet of new as well as inbounds in about 12″ on top of a mostly firm base. I weigh 160lbs.

    I could not get the ski to perform, nor for that matter to even stay on top of the snow. They would simply dive and then be squirrely at best. It felt like the binding took the life out of the ski.

    Before I try mounting them on a different ski I am wondering if anyone has had similar experience and might have ideas about whassup with this? The most likely assumption seems to me is that the ski just was too short for the set up and could not float, given the twin tip it has what appears to be a short “running length” that made it perform as though it was much shorter.

    Is it possible however that the plate system takes some of the bounce out of the ski? Or should I have mounted them further back (or forward) rather than right on the spot?

    I have never felt a ski less responsive and I know that the ski is a good powder board… any ideas on this that I might try other than putting the Dukes on a beefier set of boards?

39. Lou November 2nd, 2008 11:16 am

    Steve, the Duke allows for ski flex by the plate sliding free in the rear attachment slots. You can see this when you flex the ski hard by hand. On the other hand, it does place a rigid plate down near the surface of the ski, so this could add a bit of rigidity in comparison to other AT and alpine bindings, which suspend the rigid plate above the ski (in the case of alpine, the rigid plate is the boot).

    With that said, my take is that if the Duke plate has any effect on ski performance it would be minimal, and you should look at other factors. For starters, it sounds like you could indeed be mounted too far forward. But a change in ramp angle of your boot could have thrown your body position off, and if you’d not been on that exact pair of skis before, perhaps you just needed to get used to them.

40. Magnus November 2nd, 2008 4:26 pm

    After having used the duke for a season in New Zealand (on a pair of Armada ANTs with Salomon Xwave10s), my conclusion is that it skis very well, providing amazing edge and stability and the release has been flawless in my opinion. No problem with performance in powder or on hard pack. It might be the ski, but on ice crust and that sort of s**, the vibrations which usually can send shockwaves up my legs, was absent. It felt like the binder transferred so much power to the edge that if felt like a graded GS racing ski (well, not quite but you get the point), but then again it could be the ski (which I haven’t tried with any other bindings) that perform so well.

    The biggest disappointment was the touring capabilities. The weight I can deal with, but I felt the rotation axis was so far forward from other bindings, even the trekkers, that it subjected the foot to more leverage than I felt comfortable. In comparison to the Fritschis, the axis is almost a cm further ahead. the result is a cumbersome, less natural stride with more heel-lift.

    The under-boot mode switch I don’t find problematic, but you have to press down on the binding to lock it back in the grooves – sometimes an issue when there is ice build up – that happens a bit, or when you have placed the ski tail in the snow, and the ski doesn’t have support to withstand your pressure. Basically, you need more support for the ski to pull the lever back and forth than other touring bindings, since it requires some force.

    And then there’s that annoying sound of plastic against metal for every stride… clack, clack…. :)

    I basically bought this binding due to its beef, being 6′5” and 200 lbs, but it won’t be my preferred touring setup for sure.

41. Steve langer November 2nd, 2008 7:20 pm

    Lou,

    Thanks for the thoughtful response. I checked the set up one more time and it is in fact set with the boot aligned with center. While doing this I had a “voila” moment…

    The boots for this set up are Endorphin Mg’s, 2008. Each of the days that I used them I had them set at the 25 degree forward lean. What do you think of the possibility that this could just be too severe relative to what i was used on on my alpine set up (5 year old Salomon X-wave) and that it is possible that the 25 degree setting is putting me right over the front portion of the ski and making it that much easier for them to dive?

    Have you gotten much feedback on the 20 versus 25 degree setting on these boots for various types of skiing?

    Thanks!

42. Lou November 3rd, 2008 7:57 am

    With modern skis you don’t generally need extreme forward cuff lean, and I’d say it’s likely that using more lean could cause you to feel your setup wasn’t performing correctly. I recommend that when switching between setups that one evaluate their ramp angle and cuff lean, and try to adjust all setups to they are similar. This is especially true if you’re using beefy boots that force you into a given position.

    I covered this issue in a blog post a while back. See

    http://www.wildsnow.com/957/switch-hitting-gear-its-all-in-the-angle/

43. Njord November 3rd, 2008 10:37 am

    Got to play with my new Marker “Barons” this week at Abasin… which is a slight more detuned and slightly lighter (and $100 cheaper) version of the Dukes. The DIN only goes up to 12 on these as opposed to 16 on the Dukes, but anyone that values their ACLs would not crank thier bindings past 12 anyways (even when I was racing FIS B, 12 would be my limit to include DH). Contrary to popular belief, sometimes it’s good for skis to come off your foot in bad situations.

    Although this was for only a day, the binders felt super solid underfoot. The pivot point did feel a litte “forward”, but not terribly different than my Freerides. Based on one lousy day of skiing/testing, I think these are going to make for a great “Slack” set-up or short tour binding. Of course, only a long-term test will reveal the longevity of these binding, but so far they seem like a great set-up for SC or even *gasp* resort skiing.

    Njord

44. Ed January 6th, 2009 3:07 pm

    Hello Lou, Your tech support is so very helpful. On the Dukes, and set up directions like you had for the Naxo NX21’s like moving the toe and heal to fit boot length, setting toe height (use paper test?), forward pressure setting or guide to look at.

    Thanks for any info. I’m eagerly awaiting my G3 Rapid Transits with the Dukes and I’m a big guy who was using BCA-Trackers and Alpine stuff, so the Duke sounds like a positive step.

45. matthew jagger January 18th, 2009 10:42 am

    ive read all the reviews above and found them very interesting, ive just bought some marker barons and placed them on scott neo skis so far im very happy with the set up only used once so far, bought them because i like mountaineering and skiing so it only seemed right i got a set up that did both. i still do alot of inbound stuff, thats why i went for these. they get a good alround review . the only thing i found was that when going from touring mode to alpine, i could hear what seemed like a cracking noise, so as you can assume i was pretty mad!!. but once home and all the ice and snow melted away there wasn’t a noise. i think it was just the ice cracking under the binding when put back in alpine mode ??? any thoughts would be great.

46. Joshua Cornell February 5th, 2009 3:18 pm

    Lou- am a 6′5″ 240 lb aggressive skier. Had a pair of dukes since late last season, they ski great, the touring is a bit challenging for a couple of reasons. The climbing aid makes the steep skin tracks difficult. I also have a pair of Dalbello Krypton Pros for boots. Am wondering if i should look into some AT boots to make climbing easier and not sure if AT gear is compatable with the Dukes. Secondly, what about fabricating some taller climbing aids, have you heard of anyone doing this?

    Lastly, i love skiing the backcountry, been doing it on telemark skiis for over a decade, however my knees are not really into the abuse anymore so am hoping to get a good AT set-up. Any other suggestions on AT gear for large guys

47. Lou February 5th, 2009 4:45 pm

    Randonnee says he gets the Dynafits to work as a large guy by just skiing with them locked all the time. My thoughts are that once you’re over 200 lbs and taller than 6 feet, the ratio of binding weight to body weight is insignificant and you should just ski with what works best rather than worrying about weight. Dynafit bindings do have a limit in terms of how they hold really big guys in on the uphill, but they’ve got pretty good retention on the down no matter what your weight. Even so, I’d say at your weight, coming from Dukes, you might want to look at Fritschi Freeride first, or the Baron, or stick with the Duke.

48. Randonnee February 5th, 2009 6:45 pm

    Joshua,

    I am over 6 ft and 200 lbs but not as tall as you. If you choose Dynafit you will likely have some initial frustration until you figure it out. My first day on Dynafit I walked out of the toes constantly, then mellowed out and kept in the pins. With a locked toe I do not fear coming out of the Dynafit bindings on the downhill. But I adjusted my ski style on randonnee gear to be smoother and ride the ski more with my first setup even before Dynafit, it is a different style from lift gear. I will ski moderately fast on my Dynafit, especially in soft snow including nice corn. I had a frightening high-speed release while carving of the Dynafit toes the first season on them, then learned to always lock the toe on hard snow. Most of the time I like smooth style to preserve my joints, I hope to randonnee ski at age 71 as does my friend Ludiwig, so i need to preserve those joints!

    Rob

49. PNW February 22nd, 2009 10:26 pm

    MTFU who cares about weight. I want a binding that doesn’t take 10 years to transfer the energy from my boot to my ski. I think for Dynafit guys and Naxo guys, they just want to go to the top… but what to do when they get there. I only go up so I can rip down. I’d rather burn a few extra calories and stomp sweet pillows than to break a binding. I have a buddy that rides for Black diamond and he’s broken two pairs of Fritchie on one trip. Talk about reliable… The duke has been bomber for me.

50. Glomstulen September 1st, 2009 7:36 am

    Lou: Might be a cross post, but have you seen this product? They are supposed to be taking on orders in mid september. Looks quite interesting if it works…

    http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153109

51. Lou September 1st, 2009 8:42 am

    B&D went through the whole process of designing and selling Dynafit swap plates, in their case for tele screw hole pattern. Bill at B&D discovered that Dynafit swap plates, at least in his case, need a side-to-side alignment system. If the Duke swap system uses existing screw holes in ski, it’ll need some sort of alignment system like the one Bill figured out as once Dynafit’s are swapped on in many cases the binding toe won’t be aligned adequately with the heel. This is due to manufacturing variations, and the imprecise nature of how skis are drilled.

    It might be possible to get around this by first drilling the skis for Dukes, then before mounting the Dukes install the swap plates with the Dynafits and get everything aligned, then remove Dynafit’s and install the Dukes on the swap plates. But something tells me that won’t be enough in many cases.

    I hope I’m wrong.

52. Glomstulen October 19th, 2009 4:54 am

    Lou, check out this post on tgr with pictures of the finished product: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169419

    Would be interesting to see a test of this product…

53. Lou October 19th, 2009 6:59 am

    We’d be happy to test it. There are several issues I can see. First, it probably adds enough weight to the binding to make you wonder why you’re using Dynafits in the first place. Second, every Dynafit I’ve ever mounted required tweaking the side-to-side centering of the boot heel by nudging the binding position left and right. Perhaps a precision machined interface eliminates this requirement, or allows out? That would be interesting to test. Also, while some folks might be able to get their different boots to position on the ski the way they want, it’s obvious from the TGR posts that’s not always going to be the case. And finally, it must add more stack height, which is good, bad or means nothing depending on your preference. Alas, nothing is perfect. But it looks like a good idea for folks who have to swap between Duke and Dynafit.

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