Scott (Formerly Garmont) Cosmos Ski Boot — UPDATED!


This post by WildSnow.com blogger  
20131024 Scott Cosmos alpine touring boot is now a contender.

20131024 Scott Cosmos alpine touring boot is now a contender. Note we only tested one pair, but we're assured by the folks at Scott that they've gone to great lengths to be sure all their tech fittings work correctly.

Allright folks, it has been a saga. We liked the Garmont Cosmos boot when we got our review samples way back in May of 2012 (when we first published this review) only to eventually discover the tech fittings in the toe were somewhat “grabby” and possibly compromised safety release. During that time Scott bought the Garmont ski boot business. They inherited a truly nice boot design in the Cosmos, but needed to fix the problem with the fittings. All conspired to make one wonder exactly how would it all turn out?

When a box such as this graces your porch, you start searching for Italian snacks.

When a box such as this graces your porch, you start searching for Italian snacks. Click all images to enlarge.

Fast forward to now. Yesterday, October 9, 2013, our porch was graced with a box direct from Italy, lovingly cuddling a pair of shiny new 27.5 Scott Cosmos, presumably the retail version. I ran out to the shop and tested the tech fittings. Pass. They release smoothly and feel similar to other properly functioning tech fittings. No play when locked. What’s more, the fittings are coated with a “black thermic treatment” that might help with preventing ice plugs and perhaps adds some smoothness to the release. Our source at Scott told me they put an immense amount of work into getting the fittings working correctly, exacerbated by the still present reality that there is no industry standard for tech fittings.

The toe fittings tested well in the shop. Smooth release, no play. Pass.

The toe fittings tested well in the shop. Smooth release, no play. Pass. The black color is a 'thermic' coating that could be anti-icing and anti-corrosion as well as helping release with a bit of lubrication.

Improvements by Scott:

- Lean-lock bar (red in photos, made of aluminum) is stronger, said to be rated at 650kg in contrast to 370kg in original Cosmos.

- Lean-lock mechanism is stronger, located in a wider pocket that required a mold modification.

- Rib reinforcements in lower cuff to prevent bulging of scaffo, especially when the cuff is levered to the rear.

- Toe fittings behave correctly, and have “thermic” coating.

The blog post below is our original review. Rather than leaving this hanging behind to confuse matters, we’ll update herein with new information and photos. We’ll also leave a few older photos that are easily identified by them being branded as “Garmont” rather than “Scott”. Here goes.

Lou testing Cosmos, May 2012, Colorado.

Lou testing early version of Cosmos when they were made by Garmont, May 2012, Colorado. Click most images to enlarge.

Original Garmont Cosmos backcountry skiing & ski mountaineering boot. Note the Garmont brand, now changed to Scott

With atomic bomb force, the backcountry skiing boot market has exploded with variety that even my fertile gear-fantasy brain never imagined a decade ago. Joining the chain reaction, Scott is introducing for 2013/14 their improved Powerlite series. This review focuses on the Cosmos. All Powerlite boots have similar features to Cosmos with variations in buckle number, plastic compounds, and so forth.

- Cosmos 4 buckle (men) (all Grilamid plastic, stiffness 125)
- Celeste 4 buckle (women) (all Grilamid plastic, stiffness 120)
- Orbit 3 buckle (men) (Grilamid lower shoe, stiffness 115)
- Nova 3 buckle (women) (Grilamid lower shoe, stiffness 110)

Overall, Cosmos is positioned as a fairly beefy boot that still has the cuff articulation and lack of weight for effective human powered vert.

Weight
Pick up the Scott Cosmos; you’ll think it’s lost mass through some miraculous process involving cosmogentic nuclides. Thankfully, no radioactivity is involved. Instead, Scott builds every major shell component with Grilamid, that difficult to mold but beautiful plastic that’s now the go-to material for making light yet stiff ski boots. Our pair of 2013-2014 size 27.5 (BSL 306) drift on the scale at 51.7 ounces, 1466 grams. Incidentally, that’s a few ounces heavier than original version done by Garmont, ostensibly due to Scott’s thicker plastic and beefed up lean-lock.

In terms of comparison, one of our recent 4-buckle “modern lightweight” review boots weighs in at 50.7 ounces 1,439 grams, size 27, thus indicating Cosmos definitely holds its own in terms of modern weight metrics. Enhancing that, know that that due to how Scott lasts and builds their AT boot shells (using molds bought from Garmont), the next shell size down in a Scott ski mountaineering boot may be a better fit comparison. Thus, you could end up with significant weight savings with a likely downsize.

Uphill
Okay, yeah, they’re light. But weight matters little if you can’t walk in your shoes. While not providing the cuff articulation of leading “tour optimized” backcountry skiing boots, Cosmos still delivers in the cuff comfort department.

Cosmos cuff articulation is totally adequate and enhanced by the way the lean lock bar pivots at both top and bottom.

Cosmos cuff articulation is totally adequate and enhanced by the way the lean lock bar pivots at both top and bottom.

From vertical position to termination of rearward travel, Cosmos cuff rotates about 17 degrees. Translated to English, that means the cuff moves enough for a comfortable and normal touring gait. Though a bit more sluggish than I’m used to these days, rearward cuff articulation is nicely ergonomic. This due to the vertical lean-lock rod being free to pivot at both ends, both where it’s anchored lower in the boot as well as its sliding anchor point in the cuff. This is similar to other cutting edge systems you’ll find on the market, and truly does more closely match the motion of your ankle while having less resistance.

Scott Cosmos lean lock and shell reinforcements.

Scott Cosmos lean lock. Two plastic struts (circled in red) strengthen lower portion of lean-lock mounting area. We think these might have been beefed a bit, but they were also on the earlier design. The lean lock is beefier, accommodated by a wider molding indicated by the upper circle. The cuff moves easily on the bar in tour mode. Downhill mode anchoring appears positive with the slight bit of play customary to this type of cuff locking machinery. We do wonder how the aluminum bar will hold up in terms of motion wear -- time will tell. Most lean-lock bars are steel.

Trouble with any “tongue” type ski boot shell is you’re going to get resistance forward while walking. Keep the upper buckles loose or unbuckled helps with this, but ultimately you’ll still feel the tongue if you stride out. Cosmos is average in this department.

How the buckles stow is also important when you’re uphilling on skis or just foot packing a dirt track access trail. The two Cosmos cuff buckles are spring loaded so they stay folded in even when unbuckled. The cuff buckle ladders have spring loaded wire “frames” that rest over the attached bails, holding them in place if you prefer touring with your buckles attached but loose. Due to the nice fit I got in these boots, I toured with the cuff buckles totally undone. Your mileage will vary on that one.

Garmont Cosmos showing buckles automatic position while unbuckled.

Garmont Cosmos showing buckles automatic position while unbuckled.

The lower two buckles are one of this boots best features. Open them up, and they swing totally out of the way via spring loading. Snap closed, and both buckles rest ON TOP of the shell tongue, thus being totally resistant to catching or opening on crusty snow, rocks, brake pedals, snowmobile tunnels, or anything else your feet might encounter in a normal day's ski mountaineering.

The lower two buckles are one of the best Cosmos features. Open, and they swing totally out of the way via spring loading. Snap closed, and both buckles rest ON TOP of the shell tongue, thus being totally resistant to catching or opening on crusty snow, rocks, brake pedals, snowmobile tunnels, or anything else your feet might encounter in a normal day's ski mountaineering. Yeah, the buckle ladders are still over there on the side, but that's way better then having the actual buckle in a vulnerable location.

Entering and exiting ski boots can be annoyingly fiddly or difficult. Cosmos is an exception. Due to the way Grilamid is molded, the lower shell opening extends farther towards the toe than has been common in ski boots. Along with that, the tongue folds up and away on a hidden wire hinge. Pry the cuff laps out of the way with both hands, and your foot pops in and out like donning a pair of Tevas.

Check out how open Cosmos is when it's open.

Check out how open Cosmos is when it's open. The only fiddle while getting your foot in and out is having to hold the curve molded cuff laps out of the way. The cuff is made from stiff, springy plastic, so this is harder than it sounds but a minor inconvenience.

One other thing about hiking or climbing in Cosmos ski mountaineering boots. They have a Vibram brand sole with nice stiff rubber in the toe area where AT boots frequently become shredded after sometimes as little as a few hundred feet of scree scrambling. (Though we’d like to see even more rubber in this area, which seems to always be problem with high mileage AT boots used for walking or rock scrambling.) During my testing I stumbled up a bit of scree, and was delighted at how well the Cosmos sole held up. They’ll still wear, of course — and they’re ski boots so the sole has to be fairly thin in the toe area.

Scott (formerly Garmont) Cosmos sole is high quality Vibram.

Vibram makes terrific AT boot soles,and this version has denser rubber around the outside and at toe, more grippy stuff in the middle. I did a good test of these while booting a variety of moderately steep snow without crampons. They're fine. This version of Vibram might be slightly heavier than the vapor soles found on some of the super light backcountry skiing boots available, but they actually stand up to some abuse. Also illustrated: one advantage of using old style tech binding sockets is you have quite a bit more distance between the steel socket and the boot sole, thus allowing for a thicker sole. For some backcountry skiers this is important, while others who seldom hike dirt or rocks will yawn while reading these words. To wake you up, know that by having the denser rubber on the sole, these boots will probably perform slightly better in frame bindings then they would with a softer sole. Thought I should mention that point somewhere in here, for the three of you Wildsnowers out there who don't use tech bindings.

Downhill
When examined in light of the complete AT boot market, Cosmos is indeed optimized for the down: Conventional tongue shell design, stiff Grilamid plastic for all three major shell components, four buckles, plenty of height — the list goes on. During my testing I found Cosmos to be an impressive mix of weight savings and downhill control. This is an excellent boot for the skier who cranks hard on big vertical — charging both up and down under human power.

Cosmos spoiler can be raised by drilling another hole, or removed entirely.

Cosmos spoiler can be raised by drilling another hole, or removed entirely. To remove power strap you take out the spoiler attachment fastener (threaded in Scott improved boot, thankfully), jerk out the strap, then replace the fastener. Note attention to weight saving detail. We love speed holes.

Scott touts their “anatomic shell design.” While simply meaning they attempt to bring in the ski boot shell dimensions to more closely match the shape of an average human foot, this is a valid feature. You can see it in the shell, with the deep heel pocket and slightly reduced volume over “bathtubs” of the past. No bull, you can feel the “anatomics” when you ski — a snug responsive nesting of your foot that even worked for me on a shell and liner that’s around a half size too big.

Oh, and last size? First, know that this danged “last size” thing that everyone seems to obsess on can be quite misleading. Kind of like BSL (see above). Some say the informal standard is to measure the widest part of a size 26 boot’s metatarsal area and that’s the “last size” for a model size run. But some makers measure other sizes than that, and where the shell breaks for your sizing also influences what such a number would really mean. I quizzed boot designer Paul Parker about this and subsequently decided the most precise we could get with communicating “last width” is to say Cosmos has a last width for a 27.5 of 103.5 mm, and that this is very similar to the last width of the Garmont Adrenalin (as well as being a common last width across the interbred spectrum of AT boot brands.) In broader terms from a backcountry skiing boot perspective, I’d call it a “medium” width last. If speaking from the alpine skiing side, I’d consider it a wide last. Beyond all that, remember that simple things such as the thickness of the liner and which shell size is ultimately picked (the last width scales up and down with size) obviate any precise accuracy in using “last width” to predict the fit of a boot.

Two technical adjustments prove Cosmos is a ski boot for the down as well as the up.

First, yes Virginia, the shell has cuff alignment. Some of you could care less about that, but those who need it know what I’m talking about, and what I’m talking about is wonderful to have.

Inclusion of cuff alignment  is always appreciated.

Inclusion of cuff alignment is always appreciated.

Second, forward cuff lean angle is moderate, what I’d call around 12 degrees — but you can adjust it up to about 14 degrees. Beyond that, more angle can of course also be added by using thicker spoiler, shimming inside the boot under your heel and so forth–tuff boot fitters can do in their sleep. Scott is well aware of issues with binding ramp angle, especially that of some tech bindings having pronounced ramp. Thus by providing a relaxed cuff angle choice, requirements for modern style skiing are perhaps satisfied even while using bindings with tons of ramp (though in the end, shimming such bindings is probably a good idea).

Cuff lean angle can be slightly adjusted by loosening two screws, holding cuff in desired position, then re-seating the screws.

Cuff lean angle can be slightly adjusted by loosening two screws, holding cuff in desired position, then re-seating the screws.

Important: Rather than providing the two lean positions in the lock bar (perhaps the worst “feature” to ever exist in backcountry skiing boots), Scott sets this up so you can increase forward cuff lean by loosening the obvious two screws on the outside rear of the boot, jacking the cuff forward, then re-tightening the screws.

One small gripe about the lean lock; the mode switch is rather small and difficult to operate with thick gloves. Designing it this way is obviously a feature that prevents accidental switching from rocks or pant cuffs, but has a downside. This is not a deal breaker, and if you otherwise like the Cosmos I suspect you’d get used to it.

Sidebar: While we feel some tech bindings have too much ramp, providing at least some forward lean via binding ramp angle has a few hidden advantages. Mainly, you get some lean angle without compressing your ankle joint. Boots with aggressive forward lean in the cuff can cause ankle compression injury when pushed too far forward on ankles that are already flexed. Secondly and more importantly, boots used with a ramped tech binding can be built to walk nicely when used in the binding flat-on-ski mode, yet automatically have more forward angle when the binding is set to alpine mode with the boot heel lifted up higher than the toe. What seems to work best for a backcountry skiing setup is to provide moderate ramp angle for the binding in downhill mode, but not too much. Ramp angle of any binding can of course be tuned with shims under heel or toe mounting points, though doing so can be complex due to the need for longer screws and such.

Cosmos backcountry skiing boot, 'webframe' reinforcing ribs.

Injection molding of Grilamid plastic is a high art. Getting it thin enough to reduce weight is key, but doing so is tough because the stuff is difficult to inject into small spaces. One solution is the inclusion of thick-thin patterns in the mold. In the Cosmos backcountry skiing boot, 'webframe' reinforcing ribs yield the combo of thin and thick, thus reducing weight while keeping the beef. Nice job, only one problem: If you want to relocate a buckle for better fit, it appears doing so will require mounting the buckle in a thinner, weaker spot. Since the second buckle up from the toe buckle is mounted a bit too forward for some folks (it's in the wrong place for this reviewer, for example) this is definitely something to consider. On the other hand, most people don't do things such as buckle relocations to tune their boot fit, so in that case, non issue.

Lastly, forward flex while the cuff is locked is similar to most other tongue type boot shells. Cosmos does flex forward, and they ski fine in my opinion, but this boot doesn’t have the progressive flex of an overlap cuff. If you prefer the flex of an overlap, keep that in mind.

Liner
I quite like these liners. They’re light (9.5 ounces, 28.5) and conform well to my feet. The reinforced tongue feels good on my chicken legs. I can see swapping them into some of my other boots.

Cosmos liner is high quality, with dense foam and various stiffened areas.

Cosmos liner is high quality, with dense foam and various stiffened areas. You liner swapping fanatics might even stick with it. I likely would.

As most of you WildSnowers know, I’m not big on writing endless verbiage about boot liners. They’re so easy to swap out, and so many people do it, that extensive coverage feels like writing chewing gum reviews. But I’ll keyboard a few things. What makes the Cosmos good is the optional laces, pull loops both front and back, density where you need it, and the nicely shaped cuff. In my view the go-to feature of the Cosmos-specific liner is the plastic stiffener in the tongue. This combined with the Cosmos shell tongue I suspect will give most of you “forward stiffness challenged” boot shoppers something to be joyful about. Indeed, perhaps you won’t have to be swapping in other boot tongues, nor re-building up your boots with epoxy and Kevlar? And yes, the liners are thermoformable and strobel constructed (sole stitched on).

Conclusion
In our first on-snow testing back in 2012, we easily gave the Cosmos backcountry skiing boot a rousing cheer and multiple thumbs up in terms of how it skied. We continue that emotion, especially since the Cosmos last provides a fit option for those of you who were happy with Garmont boots of the past.Scott has nailed a beautiful combination of light weight, walking comfort and downhill performance. Simply put, by paying cosmic attention to detail and improving almost every aspect of a fairly conventional “tongue shell” ski boot design (including their working past a problem with the tech inserts), Scott deserves kudos. Give Cosmos and the other Scott ski mountaineering boots a look if you’re shopping for AT ski touring boots.

Important note: Many _Garmont_ branded “Powerlite” series boots, including Cosmos, have unacceptable tech toe fittings. We thus recommend the Scott branded boots, but not the Garmont. While Scott kept the model names the same, they changed the category name from “Powerlite” to “Ski Mountaineering.”

Sidebar, with help from Paul Parker: When comparing boot shell weights, do so using what shell actually fits your foot rather than looking at BSL (Boot Sole Length) numbers. Although often mistaken as such, BSL is not the boot size. At the risk of stating the obvious, again, BSL is only the boot’s exterior sole length. BSL can vary greatly between different boot models of the same internal size due to how the boot shell is designed (how thick the plastic is, shape of sole, etc.).

All boot shells have a number stamped inside the lower shell (scafo in Italian) such as “28.5.” This number is the boot’s Mondo Point Size. Shell cuffs and tongues often span two lower shell sizes so they may not reflect the exact size — it is important to look inside the scafo. That number in the scafo in virtually all cases will be the length of the inside of a complete boot. This is the number you need to compare one boot shell to another in terms of what will fit your foot. For example, if you fit a 28.5 scaffo in one brand, you’ll likely find that the same Mondo fits you in another brand.

Most ski touring boots use this Mondo Point System (MPS) with the shell changing every 1 cm in size. (Note: some alpine and race boots use UK sizing, which I won’t go into other than to note that it is a different measurement scale similar to the US scale.) In the Mondo Point System, half sizes are usually taken care of with the thickness of the liner and/or footbed. Note that different brands use different 1CM shell “size breaks”, i.e. some use the same shell for a 26.5-27.0, others use the same shell for a 27.0-27.5. It is vitally important to know this shell break when fitting the boot, and certainly when comparing weights and BSL.

The BSL, or BOOT SOLE LENGTH, is printed on the outside of the boot and is often mistaken for size. Most manufacturers also put a sticker on the outside of the boot that shows actual MPS size, but a good hint to boot makers would be to print shell size on the outside as well–new concept?

Scott 'Mountaineering' boot lineup for 2013 2014.

Scott 'Mountaineering' boot lineup for 2013 2014.

Along with Cosmos, the Scott “Mountaineering” boot series includes other models. For boot fitting, here are the shell breaks:

Celeste, Nova and other women’s backcountry skiing boots:
23.0-23.5, 24.0-24.5, 25.0-25.5, 26.0-26.5, 27.0-27.5

Cosmos, Orbit and other men’s boots:
25.0-25.5, 26.0-26.5, 27.0-27.5. 28.0-28.5, 29.0-29.0, 30.0-30.5, 31.0-31.5

Comments

126 Responses to “Scott (Formerly Garmont) Cosmos Ski Boot — UPDATED!”

  1. DM May 18th, 2012 10:34 am

    When the dust settles, we need a cross-comparison of the Vulcan, Maestrale RS, Cosmos and any other downhill-oriented lightweight boots. It’s getting hard to keep track and it would be good to know how both uphill and downhill performance compares when selecting a model.

    I’d also be interested to hear how downhill performance in boots of this class compares to that of beefier boots like the Titan, Cochise, etc. I like my Titans but find them too soft laterally and aft. If these boots end up both lighter and stiffer, that’s a win in my books.

  2. Lou May 18th, 2012 10:44 am

    DM, one big thing in this is that some folks simply fit one brand better than another, since brands tend to use the same or similar lasting from model to model. Thus, if you’ve tended to like the Garmont fit, you’d trend to the Cosmos over other boots of similar stature. In my view this is a huge factor and one that’s impossible to compare in any meaningful way in a review, it is unique to each person and their foot shape.

    Nonetheless, I agree a shootout of all these boots would be cool. We’ll do it, but it’s not going to happen particularly fast. I’d like to wait till we have production versions of each boot, and have skied each quite a bit. Lou

  3. Kjetil May 18th, 2012 11:55 am

    Is it possible to punch out this grilamid-stuff?

  4. Lou May 18th, 2012 12:08 pm

    It’s just nylon, so is Pebax, but Grilamid requires more heat for the punch, conversely it’s usually thinner so the heat has to be applied more carefully. Both Pebax and Grilamid require more skill to heat punch than PU. There you go. Lou

  5. Zeb May 18th, 2012 12:50 pm

    I use Garmont Mega-Rides, for both resort skiing and touring. Does anyone have a sense of whether they are outdated–that is, these new boots are just so much better–or whether I should just stick with what I currently have and like. Thanks.

  6. Toby May 18th, 2012 1:16 pm

    Very nice indeed!

    but please do not forget the Orbit. If you are a not big fan of 4-buckle high cuff boots and the TLT5 feels too less or too cold, or simply doesn’t fit you. These 3-buckle little brothers can be particularly interesting options for folks favoring more traditional lower cuff skimountaineering boots for long mileage and with slightly lower budget. Other similar ‘little bro’ sub 3000g/pair boot is Scarpa Rush and of course good old Dynafit Zzero3.

    I think those upper buckle wire gates are useless, you simply have to undone the buckles completely or you keep touring with unnecessarily restricted cuff rotation. In my experience this is the case with all these traditional designed boots and their cuff buckles with retaining catches.

  7. Lou May 18th, 2012 1:18 pm

    Zeb, I’d say way outdated. But the fact that you like what you have is huge. Perhaps stick with what you like? Personally, I’ve never found a boot I totally like, seems like every few years nearly everything out there is better than before…

  8. Lou May 18th, 2012 1:22 pm

    Thanks Toby for pointing that out. We picture the Orbit here:

    http://www.wildsnow.com/6524/garmont-powerlite-review/

    I’d consider it as my Powerlite choice, but I think I’m more inclined to customize a Cosmos by removing lower buckle and power strap. I’ll have to look at the real-world weight differences before I decide what’ll be in next year’s boot quiver .

  9. XXX_er May 18th, 2012 2:12 pm

    As one of the 4 people not on dynafits I have been waiting for this review, obviously Cosmo will be compared to the maestrale so some questions :

    -Probably the big question for me would be which toe box is wider, I got chicken legs/ankles but a wide forefoot ?

    - So these liners are better than the garmont liners of old, I can see the liners say “Garmont” but who makes them, if you molded the liners how was the molding process ?

    -do you know who makes the low tech fittings for Garmont?

    -the Cosmo reminds me a lot of the xena/endorphin series I been skiing for 5 yrs, did Paul Parker design both?

  10. rod May 18th, 2012 2:57 pm

    Any idea how wide the boot is? I need a 100mm last in an alpine boot, and I ski with BD Factors now, not the widest, but I can make it work.

    I like the overlap boots because of the seamless fell when you flex forward. Would the garmonts ski as well as the factors?

    I know it’s very old news, but I used to ski in the Garmont Adrenalines and i hated that boot, from the lack of lateral stiffness, to the sharp plastic that used to always cut my hands, to …

  11. DM May 18th, 2012 3:17 pm

    @Lou, I have not yet found a touring boot I truly fully enjoy. I agree that they seem to be getting better each year.

    On the alpine side, I’ve been using my venerable plug boots since my race days. The design has not changed much in many years and I don’t see much room for improvement there. It’s hard to beat the performance and comfort of a properly fit plug boot.

  12. Phil May 18th, 2012 3:35 pm

    asuming both boots fit, how much better is the Maestrale for up hill.
    would it be fair to say that the new RS and cosmo have similar down hill proformance

  13. Lou May 18th, 2012 3:37 pm

    Mr X, I knew a few of you guys would come out of the woodwork (grin). Perhaps Paul will drop by and answer a few questions, but I can address a couple.

    I think the toe boxes are quite similar between Scarpa and Garmont, not sure which would be wider. Either can be blown of course.

    Does it really matter who makes the liners, i.e., what factory they’re made in? They’re definitely designed by Garmont and made specifically for the boot they come in. They molded as easy as any other thermoform I’ve used, I just dropped them onto my stack blower, then did the usual process.

    Garmont makes their own fittings. They’re very nice and beefy. The heel fitting is pounded in with a hammer and has a nice long screw. IMPORTANT, any brand of tech fittings can be defective. When you purchase any brand of tech fitting equipped boots, immediately place in tech binding in downhill mode and test release on the workbench. Set binding lateral release to lower setting, 5 or so, and press sideways on the boot heel. The boot heel should move smoothly to the side then release, the boot shouldn’t stick and then violently release after excessive force. This is super important. I you don’t test your boots for this you run risk of injury.

    -Yes, Parker worked on design of both. He’s not the only designer but the most visible one and the one who speak English (grin). His team worked truly hard on the Powerlite series, and it shows.

  14. XXX_er May 18th, 2012 4:57 pm

    If I measure my flat foot with a ruler it is also 100mm, for me getting a grila-mid toe blown out would be a 1000km drive OR the guy at the hockey shop … I don’t think buddy will be touching either my maestrales or cosmos as the case may be

    having tried intuition/ palau/ variuos conform’ables liners, the liner is pretty important to me, I don’t mind swapping liners but I would rather not have to upgrade the fact that you liked these and you could fit using a stack blower instead of a convection oven tells me these are probably different than the old G-fit liners and hopefully much improved

  15. SB May 18th, 2012 5:15 pm

    Interesting hearing people with beef boots considering these. I have my doubts that if you need a double overlap beef boot, that you’d be happy with the skiing perf of a lw tounge boot, but would love to be proven wrong.

    On the other hand, I want a pair of these. I tried to buy the TLT5 this year, but just couldn’t handle the fit. I think these will be on my feet next year, if they fit like my current boots. I’ll be coming from a Radium.

  16. Lou May 18th, 2012 5:43 pm

    OK OK, I spoke for an hour on the phone with Parker, mostly about last width!

    Here is what I added to the review, so you guys don’t have to go find it in there:

    Oh, and last size? First, know that this danged “last size” thing that everyone seems to obsess on can be quite misleading. Kind of like BSL (see above). Some say the informal standard is to measure the widest part of a size 26 boot’s toe box and that’s the “last size” for a model size run. But some makers measure other sizes than that, and where the shell breaks for your sizing also influences what such a number would really mean. I quizzed Paul Parker about this and subsequently decided the most precise we could get with communicating “last width” is to say Cosmos has a last width for a 27.5 of 103.5 mm, and that this is very similar to the last width of the Adrenalin (as well as being a common last width across the interbred spectrum of AT boot brands.) In broader terms from a backcountry skiing boot perspective, I’d call it a “medium” width last. If speaking from the alpine skiing side, I’d consider it a wide last.

    Beyond all that, remember that simple things such as the thickness of the liner and which shell size is ultimately picked (the last width scales up and down with size) obviate any precise accuracy in using “last width” to predict the fit of a boot.

  17. Lou May 18th, 2012 5:49 pm

    SB, I’d agree that if you want basically an overlap alpine boot with a lugged sole and tech fittings, this boot might not be your cup of tea. On the other hand, everyone matures eventually (grin). Lou

  18. Lou May 18th, 2012 6:51 pm

    Xer, measure your foot width while on insoles from your favorite boots, while pinching the ball of your foot together so it fits nearly all on the insole. That’s more realistic. No one wears a ski boot that allows their foot to just sit there and freely spread out. Or perhaps one person does (grin)?

  19. Sam F May 19th, 2012 9:45 am

    In my mind the tongue boots can easily be made stiff( very much so side to side). But the are never going to have that sweet feedback during ankle articulation that is so nice when you can actually CARVE a turn. So Ill stick to my radiums.

    i really cant understand why a really lite overlap boot useing at least some grilamid, isn’t being made. Anyway Radiums seem to be fast enough for me to climb bigger peaks in the Tetons, and even a multi day slog to bag Gannett so whatever. I will say i regret replacing the nice somewhat breathable liner, for my overstiff vapor barrier powerwraps

  20. Pete Anzalone May 19th, 2012 9:49 am

    Suggestion: Include some other vital stats in the boot review table like whether sizing breaks on the full or half size.

    Great review! Thanks.

  21. Lou May 19th, 2012 10:18 am

    Pete, good idea, I added the shell break info to end of review. Enjoy, be sure to study them for several hours (grin). ‘best, Lou

  22. Spiros May 19th, 2012 1:43 pm

    Lou tell us some words about that Volkis you ride with the cosmos

  23. Lou May 19th, 2012 3:09 pm

    Spiros, not much to add to Anton’s review

    http://www.wildsnow.com/5879/volkl-nunataq-ski-review/

    They’ve got more rocker than anything else I ski on, most of front and rear beyond boot position. Wonderful in soft snow, ok on harder because they’re not wimpy, possibly a bit too much ski for me in 178 cm. More in Ultimate Quiver review coming soon.

    Thanks for asking. Lou

  24. Mark W May 20th, 2012 10:18 pm

    Never knew about the Mondo size stamped inside the scafo. Nice detail, very pertinent to correct boot fit.

  25. Sofia - Winterstays May 21st, 2012 1:51 am

    They look great, exactly what I’m looking for for next season. Thanks for sharing, very detailed review!

  26. Verbier61 May 21st, 2012 2:00 am

    I believe Nicola Viniero at Garmont should receive kudos for the Cosmos and related family. They look great and seem to have significantly improved over other cabrio boots in many facets. Hope to try them soon.

  27. Paul Parker May 21st, 2012 8:06 am

    Hi All,
    Paul Parker here. Thanks for your interest in the Cosmos. We are all delighted with our results from this Power Lite Project.
    Verbier61 is exactly right and I’m glad that I brought it up. Nicola, our super-modelista, realizes the ideas that go into the project, and Power LIte has very much been his baby. He deserves more than kudos.
    Calling me the “designer” seems to be an easy translation into English, but in fact I’m the Product Manager and keep the project on track. We work as a team with various engineers and designers to realize each project. Garmont’s owner Achille Morlin is also intimately involved in R&D.
    I think that Lou has answered most of the questions that have come up, as we’ve had quite a bit of dialog. A lot of it as involved last width, weight, boot sole length (“BSL”), Mondo size—numbers that are bandied about in our market and are often misinterpreted. Lou has done a great job of clarification. I’d like to reiterate how important it is to qualify each of these numbers with key info like size and shell break, as different manufacturers use different sizes for weight samples, and have different shell breaks.
    There was one question that came up regarding making an overlap boot out of Grilamid®. I, too, like overlap boots very much and still feel that our Radium is one of the best-skiing boots out there. ‘That said, you couldn’t inject a Radium in Grilamid® because you couldn’t get it off of the mold without deforming it too much; Grilamid® is stiff. And you can imagine if that is true when the plastic is very warm and soft from injection, it’s doubly true when it’s cold and stiff. You couldn’t get it on and off.
    Thanks again for your interest and support,
    Paul

  28. Lou May 21st, 2012 8:55 am

    Excellent input Paul, thanks!

  29. Sam F May 21st, 2012 5:52 pm

    Thanks Paul. Another “advantage” to the three piece design is it doesnt need the plastic of the lower shell to come up very high above the heel. The Radium has a way around this that works for me but, is still pretty limited in the ever more important ROM.

    Anyway why not make a Grliamid sole and “frame” and do a second injection of Pebax, were you need the extra flex AND in the areas were you might punch and grind.

  30. Paul Parker May 21st, 2012 6:43 pm

    Hi Sam,
    Good idea. Unfortunately at this time Grilamid isn’t compatible co-injected with Pebax. Plastic compatibility is a very precise, and important issue with multiple injection. You wouldn’t want the bottom half of the boot falling off.
    Paul

  31. Brian A September 4th, 2012 2:58 pm

    I’m trying to find some direct comparisons between the Cosmos and the Dynafit One PX. Any thoughts?

  32. Matt Funk September 28th, 2012 9:12 am

    Hi Lou — wondering how the Cosmos compare width-wise to the Vulcan? Do you wear a 28.5 in the Vulcan as well? What size (U.S.) shoe do you typically wear? Thanks!

  33. Lou Dawson September 28th, 2012 9:16 am

    Matt, Cosmos is slightly wider. In terms of trying to figure out fit from what someone else wears, waste of time. Just look at your own ski boots and measure your feet, then be ready to do some mail order swapping if necessary.

  34. Rick Shaw September 28th, 2012 9:31 pm

    when will the Comos exist ? when’s Garmont going to release them ?

  35. Rick Shaw September 29th, 2012 1:01 am

    OT, but just stepped out the backdoor and it’s currently snowing here in east Anchorage

    8)

  36. Willis Richardson October 24th, 2012 8:37 pm

    I just tried the Cosmos and felt it had the feel of the original Mega Rides. I remember looking a couple of years later at the Mega Ride and the liner was a complete change and I abandoned the boot. I am considering both the Cosmos and the La Sportiva but have not been able to try the La Sportiva in my size. I had the Lite Rider from Garmont and had they fixed the problems with the boot I would have bought another pair, great design but multiple problems. From reading most of the comment from this post, the skiers commenting should try several boots and then fly to where ever they boots are being made and buy a custom pair. I don’t think any of the respondents is going to get a good fit from all the quirks I have read about at this post. It simply boils down to if it fits, buy it. No amount of jerry- rigging is going to make it perfect.

  37. SB November 13th, 2012 10:37 am

    I am thinking about pulling the trigger on some Dynafit Mercurys, but this boot is tempting, and a fair amount lighter. Is it significantly less beefy as well?

  38. Zeb November 13th, 2012 11:37 am

    SB–if Cosmos are like Mega Rides, as Willis says, then the Mercury boots are beefier. I just replaced Mega Rides with Mercuries and, on the living room rug and stairs at least, they are much stiffer.

  39. Willis Richardson November 13th, 2012 1:18 pm

    I recently ended up buying the Dynafit One over the Cosmos. I tried them both on at the same time. The Dynafit wrapped closer to my ankle which I have a lot of trouble with regard to fit. There was also room in the foot area from previous Dynafit boots. I was surprised how much more room there was in the toe of the One. I found the One had a much better overall fit as well. Trying the two boots on at the same time really lets you look at the difference. I felt it was a matter of fit not performance. I did think the Cosmos is much softer than the One. When I put the One on I felt I wanted to really drive the boot. It felt as if it was a high performance race boot. When you compare them side by side there is quite a difference but again fit is the mantra.

  40. SB November 15th, 2012 12:12 pm

    I pulled the trigger on the Dynafit Mercury, though I suspect I would have been happy with either boot.

  41. Zeb November 15th, 2012 1:30 pm

    Re Mercuries, the pull tab on the tongue broke off almost immediately on mine. Certainly not an essential part of the boot, but bad sign. I sent two emails to dynafit and they answered neither one.

  42. Lou Dawson November 15th, 2012 1:53 pm

    Zeb, some of those tabs with various boot brands are just glued in, and they get loosened when the liner is molded. It’s been a problem for years. Lots of ways to deal with it. Warranty them, or insert the tab back in with some epoxy. The latter is what I usually do.

  43. Zeb November 15th, 2012 1:56 pm

    Thanks Lou. I’m now in my fourth day at Surefoot trying to get them to fit my feet–bone spurs and all. But once they do, it will be great!

  44. Nick Lyle December 2nd, 2012 7:25 pm

    Today I skied on Cosmos for the first time after years skiing Megarides. The Cosmos fits me better. It is very comfortable touring uphill, with nice easy articulation while still holding my foot firmly in the liner (no hot spots). It seems to me to be stiffer and more supportive in downhill mode than the Megarides were as well. So far I love the Cosmos.

  45. Edo December 5th, 2012 7:57 pm

    Iam wondering if anyone can tell me..the last for Garmont adrenalins. Sole length 327mm.And there flex rating.Thanks.Ed

  46. Shawn January 3rd, 2013 12:44 pm

    Hans anyone reported breaking the bucklels on the Cosmos? Specifically the 2 lower buckles over the instep (cuff buckles?). They have a plastic extender that is very frail. I busted one stowing them after skiing. I may have had some ice in the teeth of the ladder and the plastic was very cold but I was astounded when it just snapped. It isn’t like I was using my “kung foo grip” to close the buckle. I didn’t even have my foot in the boot. I was just buckling them up after taking them off.

    Turns out there is only about .5 cm of plastic at the point of attachment to the buckle. If this part were made of aluminum, I don’t think this would be an issue. As is, these buckles are extremely delicate. They are astoundingly easy to break.

    Too bad because I love these boots. Amazingly light, good performance downhill and they seem pretty comfortable (I haven’t broken them in yet). I think if next year Garmont replaces the plastic buckle components w/ metal this problem will be resolved.

  47. Tim January 15th, 2013 8:13 am

    Tried on both the Mercury and the Cosmos.. I wasn’t so worried about “fit” .. I’ve got wide feet and knew which ever I got was off to the fitter to get blown out… Picked the Mercurys they felt stiffer in the shop, and we slightly lighter (and EMS was blowing them out for 25% off list) … Haven’t skied them yet.. they are at the fitter getting blown out and fitted with a set of ultra low profile foot beds…

  48. Pete February 18th, 2013 4:31 pm

    Bought the cosmos. Like the fit ans stiffness. Have had a problem with the lock/lean bar snapping. MEC here in Calgary also reporting the bars snapping. Garmont definitely has a design/quality issue there. Or maybe Scott has…….?

  49. Nick February 18th, 2013 7:01 pm

    By “snap” do you mean “click”? Mine make a click sound sometimes. I don’t notice it any more; either it stopped, or I got used to it. The mechanism that locks the boot for downhill mode is a sort of toothed rack thingy that is unlike any other boot lock mechanism.. Something doesn’t quite line up right, but it seems to work fine. These boots still ski great and are very comfortable skinning too.

  50. max April 1st, 2013 2:50 am

    Hi, Garmont definitely has a design/quality issue. Last week, after roughly 30 tours the lock/lean bar fxing mechanism broke (aluminium plate). If you hear a “clicking” sound I’d definitely check the mechanism. I have found somebody else’s report on the same problem (in German). :-((

    shame. great shoe but not (yet) built to last. great if that happens if you’re touring from hut to hut etc.

    Max
    Cosmos 29.5 / Hardside 181 / Dynafit Radical / 80kgs/ 180cm

  51. Don The NorthCascadesWanderer October 11th, 2013 11:22 am

    Lou

    Last season I switched from my worn out Nordica TR12 Light to the Cosmo and love the boots. Your original review helped to seal the choice. I am one of the 3 Wildsnowers who still uses and likes the Silveretta Easy Go/ 555 bindings so tech binding issues do not matter. I probably have 30 days in on the boots so far and aside from fine tuning the liner, they are a great boot. I will say that I am not a fan of Thermofit liners , due in part to what the guys at the Glacier Ski Shop call my swamp foot. (Very Sweaty feet resulting in pruney feet at the end of a ski day) I am trying to find a high quality non-heat moldable liner to switch to. (Any recommendations?) I have been thinking about removing the spoiler and the power straps. As far a skiability they are much stiffer than my old boots, resulting in better response from my skies.

    Don

  52. Lou Dawson October 11th, 2013 11:27 am

    Just realized I should file a comment to bring this thread to a more current state. Thanks Don for doing so as well.

    I got the latest Cosmos just yesterday, October 2013 and they test out well in the shop. Main changes are a beefed lean-lock and the tech fittings are fixed and work fine. All covered in review above.

    The pair received are my size, so on-snow testing will commence.

    Lou

  53. Lou Dawson October 11th, 2013 11:30 am

    Don, I’m not sure where you’re getting the impression that not using thermo liners will allow your feet to breath better. Some perhaps do, but most are pretty much the same thing as a thermo liner, other then perhaps a bit more stitching that allows some air movement. If your feet need venting, try actually punching some holes in the thermo liner. ID areas with low pressure while wearing the boot, such as the top of your foot behind the toes. Get a fabric punch, use a chunk of wood as backing, and start with just a couple of holes. I’ve seen other guys do this and experimented with it myself. Can make a big difference. Lou

  54. OMR October 11th, 2013 11:31 am

    I’ve skied in Radiums for the last four years and ready to move on. I had a love/hate relationship with those Radiums: great on the downhill but continual toe-bang; limited walk-mode; and heavy.
    How would you compare the Cosmis to old (2009) Radiums?

  55. Mark Sweatman October 11th, 2013 12:24 pm

    Lou,

    Good update. I’m still on mega rides and have been waiting to see when the tech binding issue for garmont was resolved before replacing as I like the fit. So the assumption is that “black” Scott branded tech fittings are good to go if they in retail?

  56. Lou Dawson October 11th, 2013 12:27 pm

    YES, if you see the black fittings and Scott brand, good to go as far as I can tell. But like any tech binding/boot combo, have the shop test them or know how to do it yourself. Lou

  57. Lou Dawson October 11th, 2013 12:30 pm

    OMR, well…. the toe box is fixed compared to the strange one the Radium had, walk mode is good, and the weight holds its own with other boots in this category for this year. These are very far from being Radiums… does that help? Lou

  58. Bob Coleman October 11th, 2013 1:38 pm

    The mysteries of last sizing will always need further explanation. I see one vendor in Seattle is now listing the last size on display labels. I, for one, am having trouble finding boots. While I love my Spirit 4′s still, they won’t last, and the Mastraele is skinning at 101. The Mercury and Vulcan’s at 103 feel like 101′s. Where’s the love to be found for someone who doesn’t want to carve the inside of their boots out?

  59. Matt Lanning October 11th, 2013 1:40 pm

    I got a pair of the Garmont Cosmos a year ago (Oct 12) and have really loved them. Light, great on the up, totally capable of driving a 112 and 138 on the down, and all-day-tour comfortable. I easily skied these (as my only pair of boots) 120 days in the past year. Sadly, while in Las Leñas this summer I finally broke both tongues in half at the bellows (from so many hours of touring), and had both walk/ski mode (red bars which lock the boot in downhill mode) auger out the point of being unusable. Thankfully I got a hold of someone at Scott who was able to ship me some used (not ideal, but better than nothing) replacement parts.

    At this time I was also told that availability was so limited this year that I likely wouldn’t be able to find a Scott branded pair. None would be sold to employees or pros, and the limited inventory would be retail-only. Not a knock on Scott, just an FYI for those that might be interested in them.

    And for the record, my Cosmos were skied exclusively in tech bindings and I had zero issues with the fittings.

    I do wish Scott luck with this boot. I would buy another pair if they were available to me this year, but instead I’m just re-upping on a new Intuition liner and hoping the replacement parts hold out for another season.

  60. Nick October 11th, 2013 2:01 pm

    Finding boots that fit your special feet is the top priority. Then attention tends to turn to how the boots “ski” and this gets murky in a hurry because both the model of ski and the style of the skier have a huge impact here. I think that some combinations of boot and ski (and binding) just belong together, while some skis will make even a great boot “ski” poorly. I skied all last year on the combination of Garmont Cosmos and Volkl Nanuq skis (with Dynafit bindings; I fixed the cosmos tech inserts myself). I think this is a superb combination, perfectly ballanced, with the Cosmsos boots plenty stiff enough to drive these skis hard, yet still light and agile enough to take advantage of the unusually light weight of the Nanuqs. After years skiing another well matched setup (K2 Shuksan skis and Garmont Megarides) I was delighted to find the Cosmos/Nanuq setup much better in every kind of snow. The new setup even weighs a tiny bit less than the old setup unless you count the heavier skins required for the much wider Nanuqs.
    Nick

  61. Nick October 11th, 2013 2:14 pm

    For those wondering how Garmont Megarides compare to the garmont Cosmos (now Scott Cosmsos) I skied for years on megarides in spite of blisters and endless fit issues. After one year with the Cosmsos, including many long touring days as well as inbounds skiing, i can report that they are extremely comfortable uphill and down. I have not had a single blister. After 4 days in a row of hard skinning in Canada I did develop shin splints, so I replaced the flacid insoles that came with the cosmos with sturdy green “super-feet” insoles that I carefully trimmed to match the profile of the Cosmos insoles. This fixed my shin splint issue by giving my foot better support and also took up a bit of extra space that had developed as the liner packed out from use.
    Nick

  62. Nick October 11th, 2013 2:28 pm

    For the Radium skier, I know a pro ski mountaineering guide who used Radiums for years and then replaced them with the beefier of the Scarpa Maestrale boots. I would definitely try Cosmos on as well. Buy whatever fits best.
    Nick

  63. Charlie October 12th, 2013 12:59 pm

    Thanks for your safety evangelism, Lou!

  64. Lou Dawson October 13th, 2013 8:13 pm

    Charlie, thanks, just trying to walk the line, as it were…. Lou

  65. Mike October 15th, 2013 6:17 am

    …and I can buy a pair of Cosmos from______????

  66. Keimo October 15th, 2013 6:50 am

    Lou, thanks for your work. Great to hear that the issue should be solved now.

    One question: What shoold I look when buying Cosmos? Do the front inserts have to be black? Here in our shop they have white and black Cosmos with metal colour tech inserts at the front? What are the critical characteristics to look to get a model without the early problems?
    Cheers, Keimo

  67. Lou Dawson October 15th, 2013 8:51 am

    Guys, we had not heard about who will be retailing, but will probably be the same dealers who were doing Garmont.

    As for ID of the boots, first, if they’re Garmont branded they are not recommended. Second, yes, Scott rebranded some of the older ones and they exist on store shelves. I do not recommend those both due to the inserts as well as the lean lock. What you want is this new manufacturing run, easily identified by the BLACK inserts in the toe, as well as a wider molding at the rear cuff spine where the lean lock is. This is the kind of stuff dealers should be good at helping customers sort out. If instead they just let whatever boots languish on their boot wall without specifics about what is what, I’d recommend going elsewhere.

    Lou

  68. Lou Dawson October 15th, 2013 7:03 pm

    I heard from Scott, here is the availability beta:

    “These are expected to ship to stores at the end of October and the best resource we have available to find out who is carrying them would be our dealer locator on http://www.scott-sports.com.”

    We’ll place some online shopping links in the review as soon as the boots pop up on the websites.

    Lou (and Scott)

  69. Bjorn Naylor October 21st, 2013 11:45 am

    too bad they didn’t just keep modifying and tweeking the Radium shell and overlap system. just needed to punch out toe box and you have an awesome DH touring boot. these look like flower pots- remind me of the old Scarpa Denali which was awful. good luck Scott.

  70. Nick Lyle October 21st, 2013 11:48 am

    The Cosmos is a much better BC boot than the Radium, both for up and downhill travel, at least it is on my feet!

  71. Vt October 21st, 2013 1:36 pm

    What is the SBL of the 25.5-26 shell in the Cosmos and Celeste? I’d like to know because I want to gauge how much I would have to adjust my dynafit bindings(ST). They’re set for a Dynafit “green machine” 26 shell or last years “One” 26 shell. Where I am over the ski is important to me. I don’t want to have to move heels a cm back because I purchased a boot that is too long. Also, I just purchased the Nunatuqs, and if these Scots fit, I’ll wait to mount my new skis to the new boots.
    Thanks!

  72. Vt October 21st, 2013 1:59 pm

    Nevermind, answered the question. Found a website that has charts on this stuff. My “One” shell is actually 26.5 and 294, “GM” is 296. Think the Cosmos is the same. I assume the Celeste will be the same. So, if they fit, perfect.

  73. Bjorn Naylor October 21st, 2013 2:11 pm

    why has the overlap shell been discarded in the BC world?? too hard to get on? there is superior ankle/heel retention and stiffer flex in these shells which is the key to precise boot fitting …i don’t get it. these “tongue flap” boots suck. so much harder to get the ball of your foot driving the ski- instead you seem to be pushed back into heel turning – there is also an end point in the flex, whereas w an overlap system the fex is more linear and smooth. also lateral stiffness is compromised.
    other consideration is the prohibitive cost of shell molds….so i get that once they die , they die…but it sux balls regardless.

  74. Nick October 21st, 2013 3:31 pm

    The more anatomical fit of the new shells seems to make them fit my heel much better in spite of the tongue-type liner. The extra height on the cuff makes for more power as well. This is all so subjective though, and depends so much on the skier and the ski. Give one of the new versions a try; they are nothing like old style boots that they resemble superficially.

  75. Bjorn Naylor October 21st, 2013 5:45 pm

    i have a pair of Dynafit Ones- flex is whacked and lateral stiffness is egregious. my wife has Scarpa Gaia’s- cuff is too low and flex is crimped… – wish they would rework that Radium style shell…new models r great for up, crap for down…

  76. Lou October 22nd, 2013 6:30 am

    Bjorn, plenty of backcountry oriented ski boots are done in overlap construction. Latest truly nice one is Scarpa Freedom. And many are done as “tongue” boots because they’re lighter, easier to get in and out of, etc. One is not necessarily better than the other.

  77. Bjorn Naylor October 22nd, 2013 8:17 am

    yeah Lou i know…being a bit of a devils advocate…that Freedom boot does look ok…but the Scott boot looks like they just rejigged the Denali mood…aren’t all ski boots made in like 2 factories in Italy??

  78. Nick October 22nd, 2013 9:45 am

    Boots look similar, just as legs and feet look similar, unless you happen to have troll feet. The tiny little subtle differences have a surprisingly large imact on how they feel and ski though. Unfortunately you can only guess at these things while wearing a boot in the store. You need to ski the boot to find out how it really works.

  79. Bjorn Naylor October 22nd, 2013 11:04 am

    yeah and usually with these boots u ski them and they feel like they were flogged with wet noodles.

  80. Mark Krenzien November 6th, 2013 9:52 am

    Lou’s overview of the now-Scott Cosmos is very thorough. However, I bought pair of the Garmont Cosmos last year and skied them for four days. They met all my expect ions.

    I was unaware of the tech fittings issues and am still unclear how serious they are in terms of icing and proper release. Should I retire these practically new boots as unsafe??

  81. Nick Lyle November 6th, 2013 10:21 am

    If you use tech bindings put the boot in the binding and manually force a release (study this blog all the way back for more info). If you don’t feel the release is smooth enough you can consider modifying the tech toe socket in the boot, as I did, by using a die-grinder with a pointy bit to round the edges of the socket slightly for a smoother release. I also sanded the face of the toe fittings down slightly to give a teeny bit of clearance between the binding and the boot-toe fitting. You do this at your own risk, but it is a simple fix and worked for me. I took my time and studied my old dynafit binding/Garmont boot combination under a 10 power microscope to understand how the binding-tech fitting interface was supposed to look. I tested the progress as I worked. I had a great season skiing with the Cosmos in all sorts of conditions and had no unneeded releases, but good release when it was needed.

  82. Corrado November 16th, 2013 9:57 am

    Great boot, light, stiff, warm and confortable! But the lower two buckles are WEAK and break too easily: I broke two last season and a couple more in the 8 days skied up to now. That’s too bad considering that sometime the plastic part breaks completely and you loose the full buckle in the snow.

  83. JonB November 20th, 2013 9:21 am

    Purchased the Cosmos. Here are my very initial thoughts.
    Size 29.
    Lighter than the Dynafit One size 29 by 3-4 oz per boot. (power strap removed from the Cosmos)
    Wider than the ONE. likely a 103mm last.
    Easier to get in and out of than the ONE.
    Easier to remove the liner from the shell if you need to dry them at the hut.
    Cosmos has enough walk range. Not as smooth or broad a walk range as the ONE. It may get more smooth as I figure out the perfect tension on the tongue when walking.
    The Cosmos makes more noise as you walk in the form of buckle clack and tongue noise. Again, we’ll see when I get out more and make some adjustments
    Shell Sizing: 2 solid fingers of extra shell length in the 29 with an 11.25 foot.
    Buckles are super light. May need to develop repair kit for long trips.
    Overall, the boot is super comfy for a wide, high volume foot. Your foot slips right out of the boot when you release the buckles and lift the tongue.For some of us with a high instep and high arch this feature is a relief.
    I will get some time in the boot and report back.
    Will be skiing them this weekend.
    JB

  84. matt krane November 27th, 2013 10:20 pm

    breaking in a pair of Cosmos (Garmont-before the fixes/upgrades). not getting any visual/axial change when tweaking the cuff alignment adjustment to the ‘+’ symbol at bottom of rivet. any ideas? also, getting a little play in one boot after increasing forward lean angle with the two allen screws on lock bar…tx, matt

  85. christian schratter December 2nd, 2013 3:04 am

    Just bought the Cosmos a week ago and used it for 2x medium length ski tours and already broke the first one of the lower buckles when closing the shoes. Actually I was quite suspicious about the plastic buckles in the shop, but thought “hey, they surely know what they do”…

    Are there any replacements available made of metal? Otherwise I’d say this shoe is a no-go (unless you can live without the lower 2 buckles).

  86. louis dawson December 2nd, 2013 7:50 am

    Strange, you sure you have current retail version of the boot?

  87. christian schratter December 2nd, 2013 8:21 am

    Well, I hope that I bought the up to date version! :-)

    Here [1, 2] I uploaded 2 pictures of the broken buckle. Breakdown happened while closing the buckle. Temperatures for the first ski tour was roughly -17° Cecilius and much warmer for the second tour.

    [1] https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2V067ThMVaZWFZQdlVMVnowS0k
    [2] https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2V067ThMVaZNWwtSjRXWDd3amM

  88. JonB December 2nd, 2013 3:23 pm

    Christian:
    Let us know how hard it was to get some replacement buckles please…and where you ended up getting them….
    Not liking the thought of that being a weak point, obviously.

  89. christian schratter February 10th, 2014 11:44 am

    A couple of more tours and the next buckle is gone. If you ask me then the 2x lower buckles are definitely crap.

    JonB: getting a replacement was a weird thing. The shop where I bought the shoe actually never replied back to me that they finally got the spare parts. However, another shop – Intersport Eybl in Austria – where I dropped my (broken) shoes to adjust the bindings of my new skis fixed the issue with the shoe themselves and for free without requesting them to do so. Quite nice service there I’d say!

  90. JonB February 17th, 2014 9:43 am

    Just spend 7 days in the skin track on Blanket Glacier in the Cosmos. I have them dialed. Took the strap off. Temps started off sub 0F and my toes were a little cold. Above 0F and they were fine. I was also able to procure an extra buckle to take with me. Walking wise their range of motion is adequate as reported previously. Durability wise the buckles held up well in the sub 0 temps. Performance wise, they are a nice, not too aggressive or too stiff boot that can drive most any ski. I am skiing BD Converts with dynafits.
    One note: You don’t want to unbuckle your boots and have the loose buckles flapping around because I think you will snap them off. That goes for transporting them on the heli or in the car or walking around. Buckle them back up.
    All told, a very good boot for a normal to wide foot that walks well, is super easy to get in and out of and is pretty darned light.
    JB

  91. Lou Dawson February 17th, 2014 10:43 am

    Checked out Cosmos II at Scott Press Event in St. Anton a few weeks ago, they said the buckles are stronger, and retail version won’t spring open quite so far. I’ve got a short report I’ll publish in a few days,. but they’re pretty much the same boot. Lou

  92. christian schratter February 17th, 2014 10:49 am

    I just wonder why they don’t make the buckles entirely out of metal? I mean, those few grams more won’t make a negative difference…

  93. Lou Dawson February 17th, 2014 11:00 am

    Actually, even a few grams is very important at least to the boot makers. This is all in the details, and selling ski touring boots is super competitive on weight. Many shoppers see one boot that’s 1050 grams and one that’s 1040 grams and they’ll immediately consider the lighter boot. Not saying that’s right or wrong, it’s just what is.

    As for myself, I’ve seen that weight of boot parts (buckles, power strap, footbeds) actually does accumulate to noticeable levels, so it’s good to keep that in mind when tuning and modding — and shopping.

  94. JonB February 17th, 2014 11:02 am

    I would have hoped for a metal buckle that allows the tongue to lift but I am not too concerned about the buckles IF you simply remember to buckle them up whenever you don’t need them open. I carry an extra one on a hut trip but even when it was ten below they worked well. Just have to pay attention to them flapping around. Do not walk around the hut with the lowers unbuckled and sprung for example because you will catch them on your other boot or a door jam. Ask me how I know.

  95. Lou Dawson February 17th, 2014 11:26 am

    The spring loaded buckles are somewhat of a solution without a problem, IMHO…

    They need to concentrate on more important things, like making the tongue hinge while touring and lock rigid for skiing — the next frontier with cabrillo ski touring boots.

  96. Nick February 17th, 2014 2:02 pm

    As to buckle strength,
    It is also important to carefully check that the tongue and buckle parts are all where they should be before reefing down on a buckle. I usually start with buckles too loose, look everything over, then tighten the buckles another notch as a way to make sure something is not jammed where it shouldn’t be when I close the buckles hard. That said, I find that the cosmos ski great with the buckles less tight than the maximum. If you find yourself leaning hard on the buckles to try and make the boot fit you may have purchased the wrong shell size, or you may need to have your liners re-cooked.

    My Cosmsos function superbly for steep skiing and skinning and I never have to put a lot of force into closing the buckles, so have not felt in danger of breaking them. I have had them for 1-1/2 years now and have put a lot of miles on them.

  97. JonB February 17th, 2014 2:10 pm

    Yeah, Nick I agree.
    Love the way they ski. They walk fine.
    Just have to be mindful of the buckles and manage them a little.
    Glad they have held up well for you.

  98. Greg February 17th, 2014 3:26 pm

    I’ve had a pair of the Garmont Cosmos for a little over a year now, and I haven’t had any trouble with the lower buckles catching on anything when open because the springs for all four of them broke >_<

    Haven't had any trouble with them getting in the way without the springs, so it's not really an issue, just one more reminder of why I shouldn't buy first year ski gear. Skis just fine, and great on the uphill and hiking, just not really a finished product.

    Looking forward to seeing your latest take Lou, any chance of getting a look at the 'strengthened' lean lock mechanism?

  99. Lou Dawson February 17th, 2014 7:58 pm

    Greg, the lean lock mech looks the same, it just has slightly bigger parts. Lou

  100. Simon Freytag February 18th, 2014 4:29 am

    I bought the Cosmos to replace my old Adrenalin boots in mid-Jan… went off skiing… after 2 weeks in Austria (6 days resort, 7 days touring) I had broken all four buckles! So it is nice to hear other people have concerns / similar experience.

    The buckles broke across the easy-open spring:

    http://www.freytag.org.uk/01_buckle.jpg

    http://www.freytag.org.uk/02_buckle.jpg

    (In photo 1 you can also the the plastic is cracking under the buckle itself)

    The buckles snapped while they were fastened: 1 whilst going downhill and the other 3 while skinning.

    After a while my boot looked like this, not a good look…

    http://www.freytag.org.uk/03_result.jpg

    I think we picked up the tip to take ski straps with us from WildSnow, so thanks! this was a pretty handy fix. Inspired by that we cut up & trimmed a BD ski strap to make a replacement buckle (we were out for 7 days in a winter room, so had no chance to go to a shop):

    http://www.freytag.org.uk/04_bodge.jpg

    This worked well, so when I got home I drilled the rivet out of the toe strap of my old Adrenalin and attached that. I could do with some washers that fit better, but it looks like this:

    http://www.freytag.org.uk/05_hack.jpg

    This seems like a good fix… Easy opening still works – the buckle just flips out of the way and anyway the easiness of the opening is more down to the tongue/minimal cuff shell than the fancy springing buckles? The buckles still sit nicely out of the way when done up and now even when open, as per Lou’s original review. And it is a nice simple solution without fragile springs, which as people are saying above in the comments, is worrying and perhaps a solution without a problem. So I wonder if Scott could do something like this?

    Next ski tour is in 2 weeks in Scotland, so fingers crossed that the hack holds up! Meanwhile, I’ll write to Scott to ask about the Cosmos II buckles and see if I can get some, thanks for posting that info above – I’m looking forward to the upcoming post about it.

    Despite this though, the boots were a super-comfy replacement for the Adrenalins, stiffer for skiing I think, and I really enjoyed the massive weight & cuff articulation improvement over the Adrenalin.

    (This is my first comment on WildSnow despite following the blog for ~5 years. Here in the UK we cannot really access the wealth of European ski tour info because it tends to be in French or German! so we read quite a lot of North American blogs/writing, so thanks for the very useful blog)

  101. Lou Dawson February 18th, 2014 6:45 am

    Simon, impressive field repair work as well as home fix! But really, you should have no problem whatsoever getting replacement parts from Scott. Please please report back to us and let us know how that goes. More, did you get your boots from a reputable dealer? If so, they can probably help.

    Glad you guys are finding Wildsnow.com useful. We are indeed global, and that sure caught me by surprise though I should have anticipated it.

    If there is anything specific to the UK we can do, always feel free to contact. Perhaps I’ll make a stop, hire a car, and ski Scotland before continuing to Austria? Or at least check out some classic ice climbs and do some pub tourism?

    Lou

  102. Simon Freytag February 18th, 2014 3:46 pm

    I’ve just emailed Scott, I will gladly keep this thread posted with the outcome.

    And good idea about the dealer, I bought the boots from http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/ who were very helpful during the buying, so I have emailed them, too.

    I don’t think there’s much specific you need to do for the UK, we’re just too short of snow to need much dedicated info! Just continue with your English-language relentless test-to-destruction approach to blogging :-) If you do ever make it over here then we would be delighted to give you a tour of our local (north England) pubs and Scottish slopes so let us know! But otherwise check out the backcountry reports here, if you haven’t found this web site already, for all the conditions info you’d need:

    http://www.winterhighland.info/touring/

    and if you end up touring around Cairngorm, you need to stay here for the beer & food:

    http://www.oldbridgeinn.co.uk/

    We’ll send you a write-up of our forthcoming Scottish tour in a couple of weeks, then you can see what you think! West coast Scotland is reporting some of the ‘best’ (most snow) conditions for many years, but as ever with Scotland it comes with the caveat of savage Atlantic weather…

    Simon

  103. Jim Simpson February 18th, 2014 11:48 pm

    I just lost/broke the steel bar from the ski walk mechanism back of my Garmont Radiums. I want to replace them with Cosmos but I am checked in to Sun Peaks for 7 days then going back to New Zealand. Does anyone know if there Is a dealer somewhere close I can ring to get some boots sent over quickly?( Scott Website dealer locator useless for these boots)

  104. Willis Richardson February 19th, 2014 7:25 am

    I bought the original boots and never have I had such comfort. The problem I am having now is the cant mechanism will no stay locked in the maximum cant mode. I have cleaned the screw and nut to no avail. I wonder if others are having the same problem or could I sent the boots back to Scott for fixing? I have tried Nut Lock but it did not work.

  105. XXX_er February 19th, 2014 7:37 am

    “Does anyone know if there Is a dealer somewhere close I can ring to get some boots sent over quickly? ”

    Valhalla pure in Kamloops or MEC in vancover

  106. j.c.simpson February 19th, 2014 9:01 pm

    Thanks but neither stock Scott. Both stock Scarpa so I will look at the Freedom SLs.

  107. matt krane February 20th, 2014 7:17 pm

    After having custom-fit all manner of boots out of Footloose in Mammoth Lakes…one thing ingrained in me is what we feel is the best way to put on a boot, custom insole or not: pull up on the liner once your foot is in, seat your heel as far back as possible. buckle JUST the top buckle and power strap-for the Cosmos, you need to have all tongue/buckle parts lined up properly to do this. Then flex the boot a few times, sole flat on the floor-this allows your foot to seek it’s optimal position within the liner/shell combination. Then, buckle DOWN from there. Buckling the forefoot buckles first can crimp your foot, or fix it into a not-so-optimal position. Works great with my Cosmos. And yeah, they should be buckled when not in use. mine compete for ‘hose’ space with 30 other pairs of Patrol boots overnight.

  108. Simon Freytag March 4th, 2014 2:19 pm

    So here’s my post-Scotland update –

    My bodge of attaching the Adrenalin toe strap as the Cosmos midfoot strap worked, in that they didn’t break over the weekend and the boot was comfy for skiing & skinning.

    My dealer, Telemark Pyrenees, was helpful and said they could send me some replacement plastic parts right away. I declined; I didn’t really want them, being fairly sure that whatever it is I do differently would still be different and so I’d probably break the replacements, but I did ask if I could have a new midfoot buckle because I lost one in Austria. They’re going to send that in March when they get them in stock.

    Scott UK responded and initially referred me to my dealer. I persisted, because my query wasn’t about direct replacements, as such, but whether they could get hold of some Cosmos II buckles which as mentioned in the WildSnow preview are possibly stronger. Unfortunately they didn’t seem to grasp the point and the conversation petered out.

  109. JonB March 4th, 2014 2:49 pm

    It would be nice to retrofit the II’s buckles and tongue to our 2013 boots. The tongue looks nice. The buckles sound like they are better.
    I have some replacement buckles from Scott so I should be good for buckles for a while, I would hope.

  110. johannes March 5th, 2014 5:37 am

    I have just bought a pair of Cosmos boots and tested it last weekend.
    Tours realy great for a 4 buckle boot. Lightweight and just enough cuff rotation. Great fit, I can get into a 29 where I normally have to go for 30 on Scarpa or Dynafits.
    One thing which left me a bit confused is there seems to be still some movement left once put into skimode. It looks like this is coming from the lean look bar not being fully locked at the lower hinge joint. about 1-2mm movement.
    Didnt bother me when skiing powder, have to see how it impacts hard-packed.
    Has anybody else experienced this?

  111. Lou Dawson March 5th, 2014 7:17 am

    Most lean locks of most brands have a small amount of play. Do your Cosmos boots have the black colored toe tech fitting? Mine of that vintage have a small amount of play, but one developed more play when the cuff cant alignment rivet loosened so check those cuff rivets as well as the lean lock if it seems you’re getting too much play. Beyond that, if the lean lock starts acting funny (lots of play, lock not working) it’s a warranty issue. Lou

  112. Johannes March 5th, 2014 2:03 pm

    thanks good tip to check the cant rivets.
    yes the boots do have the dark coloured tech fittings.
    I don’t think its a warranty issue as play is same for both boots now.

  113. Christian Schratter March 9th, 2014 2:43 pm

    Update: a couple of more tours, a couple of more broken lower buckles.

    To be precise (as the Scott representative corrected me) -> broken (red) straps. On average one of them breaks all 4-5 tours. Last time 2x of them just snapped away while skinning up a slope. Temperatures around -25° Celsius.

    After around 20x tours and 2x days skiing in a resort also the locking mechanisms on both boots are broken. Besides, the tongue on top of the shoe already shows cracks across the whole width, so probably only a matter of time till they also break.

    All in all: this is the most expensive boot I ever bought showing the least quality. The guy here in a shop in Revelstoke, where I took my boots to sort out the warranty issues, told me that they returned every single pair of these boots before they took it off the shelf.

  114. Simon Freytag March 17th, 2014 8:26 am

    JonB – retrofitting the tongues sounds like a good idea. But I am wondering… maybe, especially given what Christian says, a free upgrade to the Cosmos II boot (perhaps just shell, the liner seems fine!) might not be a bad offer from Scott?

  115. Tim March 30th, 2014 9:48 pm

    Hey all, was out skiing today and snapped the bar that locks my boots (garmont cosmos).
    This is the second time this has happened ( 1st time last year on the other boot) I got this one fixed by my retailer. After a long wait, but they are now going out of business. Can some tell me where to get contact info for Scott so I can try to get them fixed?
    Has anyone else had this problem, 2 or of 2 boots for me. And am honestly a little disappointed considering what I spent on the boots.
    Thanks guys!
    Tim

  116. Tim March 30th, 2014 9:49 pm

    Sorry didn’t finish that last one sentence… Snapped the. Bar that locks my boots into ski or walk mode.
    Thanks for any help!
    Tim

  117. Lou Dawson March 31st, 2014 7:06 am

    Tim, if I were you I’d find another Scott dealer and see if they can help you out. Otherwise, we do need some contact info here for Scott customer service. I don’t have that at my fingertips (at Field HQ at the moment), if anyone else can chime in that would be appreciated.

    Meanwhile, we have Cosmos 2 in testing, they do look much better overall. Interestingly, they got rid of the springs that hold the buckles open. on the Cosmos 1 That was a problematic feature, so good on them. I’m assuming the lean lock is much beefed. Lou

  118. Greg April 1st, 2014 6:44 am

    Tim – I broke the same thing last spring, and I ended up calling Scott directly (although I can’t find that number anymore >_< ), and had the replacement parts in hand by the end of the week. As far as doing the work, you just need the right size star and allen bits, and a punch or press for the pin that is the bottom hinge of the bar, really not that hard of a job.

    Yeah, not sad to see those springs go, 3 of my 4 are dead, and the 4th is unreliable. They were handy when I was first getting to know the boot, but not really necessary (it's easy enough to hold them out of the way).

  119. JB April 1st, 2014 9:12 am

    Lou
    Any sense of whether or not we could put the new springless buckles on our older boots?
    I assume we could fit the upgrade the bar too?

  120. Lou Dawson April 1st, 2014 9:27 am

    Looks to me like it would be an easy swap. I have booth boots here and just checked them out. No time to experiment at the moment. Not sure about the lean lock bar. Lou

  121. JB April 1st, 2014 9:37 am

    I want Scott to step up and to offer a conversion kit including bar, buckles and tongue. A package we could purchase at a reasonable price to keep their customers satisfied.

  122. Steve April 10th, 2014 9:14 am

    Just got back from a tour in Sweden (Kebnekaise). Three of the group had Scott Cosmos boots and three of us had buckles snap. Two buckles snapped at the hinged end whilst one snapped halfway along the red plastic part.
    Having read this site and having experienced the failure of three other boots I shall be returning the boots to the UK distributor as not fit for purpose.
    In addition to the buckle issue, the canting pivot on the boot uppers which allows the flex during walking comes loose. As a result the upper moves both forwards/backwards (which is fine) and from side to side (which is not fine). The only thing stopping the bolt coming out is the fact that the end is turned over.
    Comfortable boot but utterly useless due to design problems.

  123. Lou Dawson April 10th, 2014 9:19 am

    I have new version here, Cosmos 2 retail version, pretty sure all problems are resolved. It’s really too bad they got the older boots out there with all the problems you describe, super difficult to get past. They probably should have entirely renamed the new boot as I’m sure this is all going to be very confusing for the shopper next fall. We’ll do what we can to help. Lou

  124. JonB April 10th, 2014 9:26 am

    Lou,
    Can you post a pic of the new buckles up close, please. The entire boot for that matter.
    In your opinion will we be able to swap out the old buckles, tongue and walk/ski plate? Like I said previously we need a conversion kit from Scott.
    What can we do to get that process initiated and rolling in the right direction?
    Thanks.
    JB

  125. Rob April 12th, 2014 1:18 pm

    After two seasons of blissful ignorance (and soft snow) on my Garmont Cosmos I finally caused some damage that effected performance. I had encountered the spring failure almost right away, but felt that was an improvement. Just recently I broke the forward lean lock, and that is not as happy an accident. My Google search took me here, which resulted in hearing about the many issues I have yet to encounter.

    I hope an update kit is an eventual reality as I find the comfort factor of the boots to be high and the performance would be great if things have been resolved.

    I was glad to see that the walk mode failure didn’t render the boots useless and that I was able to continue skiing – just not with the same support when I got in the back seat.

  126. Hitsch April 21st, 2014 4:18 am

    Hi Guys

    I’m using the Garmont Cosmos over a year now. Never had any problems with them (only the spring of the buckles broke) and love to skin / ski with them. But last weekend something happened, which could be quite dangerous in some situations. We climbed a up to 45° slope, which is absolutely no problem. While making ready for the descend from the peak, i switched from walking to ski mode as always, but i did not fix at the ski position as always. So i tried i again. Somehow it was fixed, then, but it felt different. I started skiing, and when i increased the foward pressure to get grip, the shoe suddenly loosened dramatically, which resulted in a almost fall in quite steep rocky terrain. When i restarted the sking i realised, the shoe was fixed at a weird forward position. It was impossible the get back into normal skiing position but there was no resistance toward the front (felt like sking with a telemark). At a save place we tried to find the reason. My friend saw that the upper part of the shell (black one) was over the top part of the lower one (withe). Those two parts were wedged that it was not possible to get back to normal skimode. With a knife, a screwdriver and a lot force we managed to get the shell in its normal position. Both parts are quite damaged after this tortouring, and the fixing mechanism seems to be damaged too.

    I’ll bring the shoes to my dealer, and will see what he says about this issue. I just wanted to describe this problem, so you know about it.

    I hope you could get, what i wanted to says despite my poor english

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Welcome to Louis (Lou) Dawson's backcountry skiing information opinion website and e magazine. Lou's passion for the past 45 years has been alpinism, climbing, mountaineering and skiing -- along with all manner of outdoor recreation. He has authored numerous books and articles about backcountry skiing and is well known as the first person to ski down all 54 of Colorado's 14,000-foot peaks, otherwise known as the Fourteeners! Books and free back country news and information here, and tons of Randonnee rando telemark info.

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