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	<title>Comments on: Rescue Beacon Tech Has Limits, But So Do Helicopters</title>
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	<description>Backcountry Skiing Weblog Blog, FAQs, more, links and info about randonnee, telemark and backcountry ski mountaineering.</description>
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		<title>By: Outdoor Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/5602/rescue-beacon-issues/#comment-46452</link>
		<dc:creator>Outdoor Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting article and comments - there&#039;s been a new product on the market for less than a year - Cerberus which appears to address some of the shortfalls mentioned here.  It is a two-way device which allows for incidents to be &quot;queried&quot;, is locally managed - ie: if I&#039;m going into the back country of Denali, I can set the Cerberus to notify the Park Ranger (the guy who will actually coordinate a recovery) as well as others if there is an incident.  Most of all it&#039;s affordable because it can be rented for 2 or 4 week intervals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article and comments &#8211; there&#8217;s been a new product on the market for less than a year &#8211; Cerberus which appears to address some of the shortfalls mentioned here.  It is a two-way device which allows for incidents to be &#8220;queried&#8221;, is locally managed &#8211; ie: if I&#8217;m going into the back country of Denali, I can set the Cerberus to notify the Park Ranger (the guy who will actually coordinate a recovery) as well as others if there is an incident.  Most of all it&#8217;s affordable because it can be rented for 2 or 4 week intervals.</p>
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		<title>By: CozT</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/5602/rescue-beacon-issues/#comment-37690</link>
		<dc:creator>CozT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 00:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=5602#comment-37690</guid>
		<description>Lou:

Very interesting post. I think you are correct about how these devices have the wild promise of a panacea while posing serious problems. I run college outdoor orientation program, and we send all our trips out with PLBS (which we rent). We lust after the functionality of devices liket the DeLorme InReach, but we have no way of paying for that number of subscriptions or devices.  Interestingly, everyone in our institution sees the downsides of these devices (i.e., potential long delay in response, lack of two-way communication for the devices we can afford, problems with response forces becoming inured to calls b/c of people unnecessarily activating their devices, etc).  This is the case from high administration to our risk management team to our student leaders.  We all agree to carry them, though, because they *could* reduce response times in that incident that we all worry about, and because parents of participants are beginning to expect them.  Personally, I&#039;m just waiting and hoping that the technology advances fast enough that a device like the inReach becomes financially viable for us before it becomes a &quot;must-have&quot; because it&#039;s the industry norm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou:</p>
<p>Very interesting post. I think you are correct about how these devices have the wild promise of a panacea while posing serious problems. I run college outdoor orientation program, and we send all our trips out with PLBS (which we rent). We lust after the functionality of devices liket the DeLorme InReach, but we have no way of paying for that number of subscriptions or devices.  Interestingly, everyone in our institution sees the downsides of these devices (i.e., potential long delay in response, lack of two-way communication for the devices we can afford, problems with response forces becoming inured to calls b/c of people unnecessarily activating their devices, etc).  This is the case from high administration to our risk management team to our student leaders.  We all agree to carry them, though, because they *could* reduce response times in that incident that we all worry about, and because parents of participants are beginning to expect them.  Personally, I&#8217;m just waiting and hoping that the technology advances fast enough that a device like the inReach becomes financially viable for us before it becomes a &#8220;must-have&#8221; because it&#8217;s the industry norm.</p>
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		<title>By: wfinley</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/5602/rescue-beacon-issues/#comment-37683</link>
		<dc:creator>wfinley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2011 21:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=5602#comment-37683</guid>
		<description>@Matt:  A six hour delay to fly into the Bush is not much of a delay.  Even people who get hurt on the peaks just outside of Anchorage can expect a similar delay.  Rescues take time -- sometimes it even takes an hour plus for EMTs / police to respond to accidents on the Seward highway.  And if you get hurt in a remote area in Alaska don&#039;t expect help for 12-24 hours.

The PJs are the primary choice for remote rescues for a reason. If NPS or a private firm (like Talkeetna Ambulance Services) were responding to accidents then it would set a precedent for either federal response or private industry response to accidents on state land.   Not only that but the PJs pretty much can land anywhere and handle anything.  We all know the NPS heli pilot is awesome -- but he doesn&#039;t have a crew of crazy guys who are willing to pretty much do anything to save a life.  As for Lifeflight and other similar services -- they will never risk a landing unless everything is perfect, which pretty much means they&#039;ll only land on the highway.

Furthermore your quip about the highway and snaggers is non sequitur.  People die just about every other day on the Seward and Parks highways - so it could be argued that a police presence there is a greater service than having someone around for the possibility of a remote rescue.  And fish cops are ADF&amp;G - not police.    

As for aircraft - don&#039;t expect a timely response.  If you recall the Stevens response was delayed for 12 hours to weather.

In short.... 6 hours to coordinate a rescue and fly in the PJs is a pretty short timeframe given their location.  If you get hurt in the mountains don&#039;t expect anyone to show up for 12-24 hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt:  A six hour delay to fly into the Bush is not much of a delay.  Even people who get hurt on the peaks just outside of Anchorage can expect a similar delay.  Rescues take time &#8212; sometimes it even takes an hour plus for EMTs / police to respond to accidents on the Seward highway.  And if you get hurt in a remote area in Alaska don&#8217;t expect help for 12-24 hours.</p>
<p>The PJs are the primary choice for remote rescues for a reason. If NPS or a private firm (like Talkeetna Ambulance Services) were responding to accidents then it would set a precedent for either federal response or private industry response to accidents on state land.   Not only that but the PJs pretty much can land anywhere and handle anything.  We all know the NPS heli pilot is awesome &#8212; but he doesn&#8217;t have a crew of crazy guys who are willing to pretty much do anything to save a life.  As for Lifeflight and other similar services &#8212; they will never risk a landing unless everything is perfect, which pretty much means they&#8217;ll only land on the highway.</p>
<p>Furthermore your quip about the highway and snaggers is non sequitur.  People die just about every other day on the Seward and Parks highways &#8211; so it could be argued that a police presence there is a greater service than having someone around for the possibility of a remote rescue.  And fish cops are ADF&amp;G &#8211; not police.    </p>
<p>As for aircraft &#8211; don&#8217;t expect a timely response.  If you recall the Stevens response was delayed for 12 hours to weather.</p>
<p>In short&#8230;. 6 hours to coordinate a rescue and fly in the PJs is a pretty short timeframe given their location.  If you get hurt in the mountains don&#8217;t expect anyone to show up for 12-24 hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/5602/rescue-beacon-issues/#comment-37645</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Njord, you can make that clear by doing some guest blogs about the heli ride you give us up to a certain place in the West Elk mountains. I&#039;ll take nice pictures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Njord, you can make that clear by doing some guest blogs about the heli ride you give us up to a certain place in the West Elk mountains. I&#8217;ll take nice pictures.</p>
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		<title>By: Njord</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/5602/rescue-beacon-issues/#comment-37643</link>
		<dc:creator>Njord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=5602#comment-37643</guid>
		<description>You forgot to mention that helicopter pilots all are very handsome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot to mention that helicopter pilots all are very handsome!</p>
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