The Problem With PLBs, ACR, Spot Messenger, Etc.

80 Responses to “The Problem With PLBs, ACR, Spot Messenger, Etc.”

1. Kevin L December 30th, 2009 11:22 am

   Hey Lou,

   I hate PLBs with a passion. I can understand the usefulness for tracking an extended trip or mountain guides carrying them for emergencies with clients, but overall I feel they empower people with a false sence of security that leads to more inexperianced people accessing terrain that requires experiance to navigate safely. Where’s the accountability? Before PLBs were commonplace there was still a sense of danger, isolation, and wildness where self reliance, knowledge, and skill was key.

   I started touring alone when I was about 16. My poor parents were always worried sick and took it upon themselves to purchase a first generation Spot
   which they forced to me to carry about, threatening to cease their financial support if didn’t comply. They’d say “We better get at least three OKs or you can forget about new skins for xmas”, and if they didn’t get the messages I’d have to plead in frustrated anger for them to believe that I had indeed pressed the OK button, pointed the thing south and waited ten minutes…

   Anyway, all these years later they still plead with me to carry it when I tour alone, and I usually throw the thing in my pack (always off) and keep it for absolute emergencies… but even then I’d like to think I wouldn’t use it, no matter what happens, that I’d be bold enough to toss the thing aside and die a lonely death in the wild.

   But then again I still send my poor old folks an “OK” message every once in a while, just for shits ang giggles. I know it makes them happy.

2. Greg in Utah December 30th, 2009 11:42 am

   I’ve never liked the “false sense of security” argument with respect to safety equipment. I’ve heard this used for helmets and seat belts among other things. Although I don’t plan on buying a PLB (cost to benefit just isn’t there for me yet) I do think it is worth evaluating. That said, I must agree that the system clearly needs to be improved before this becomes a viable safety tool.

   I think Kevin brought up what could be an interesting future blog post, that of touring alone. Like Kevin, as soon as a I could drive I ended touring alone some of the time. 14 years later I very rarely tour with a partner. I think there are pros and cons to being solo in the BC. It could make for some interesting discussion. (I suspect a few people will call Kevin and me mean names for this practice. I suspect this because people have already said I’m stupid for skiing alone)

3. matt December 30th, 2009 1:00 pm

   You can say what you want about using the spot and the false sense of security. I fundamentally agree with most of these arguments. My argument would be for the lives you are putting at risk while attempting to locate your body. We have seen it many times and already this year on mount hood. Capable climbers getting in trouble high on the mountain. Regardless of their wishes the search begins, many times in bad weather and hazardous conditions. Having a locator (which I understand are available to rent for $5 a day) would expedite the search and rescue while saving thousands in tax dollars.
   With new technology comes responsibility and accountability. I don’t carry the SPOT for my own security. I carry it for my family and the rescuers who don’t deserve to be hunting blindly for my frozen body. When I push the HELP button the custom message will read “I was prepared, solo and did everything I could get to out of the woods. Tell my wife she can come and drag my body from this location in the spring when it is convenient to do so.”
   I think it is great you guys ski alone and hope you continue to be safe and have great times enjoying the outdoors.

4. byates1 December 30th, 2009 1:59 pm

   i got one, like an avy beacon, hope to never use it

   i got it because i ski tour alone, in remote wilderness, a lot

   i registered when i got it , and it seemed like i had to, to get it to activate. if someone is fvking around with one of those willy-nilly, they deserve fines, punches to the face, etc..

   i had mine when i fell 70+ feet down steep rock, on skis, broke ribs, severed an artery, major tendon in my hand, and generally got the shit kicked out of me. i got out alone, no way are you hearing about me on the news unless absolutely necessary

   so, in conclusion, people are a disappointment..

5. randy December 30th, 2009 3:12 pm

   sounds like someone is mistakenly using PLB as avy beacon.

6. Tony December 30th, 2009 3:35 pm

   why lump the spot in with the acr, when, as you say, it is more accountable because you have to register for it to work? On top of that, when you do trigger a 911, they will call the people on your contact list to double check that you are actually out somewhere, again reducing the possibility of a false positive.

   Sure there might be other issues, with people using it unnecessarily, just like cell phones, but your article & title does the spot a dis-service within the context of the problem that the article discusses.

   Kevin, get off your high horse and think a little.
   I carry my spot mostly for the exact opposite situation. I might be very late, or forced to bivy for whatever reason – gear failure, error on my part, unexpected weather/avalanche conditions – perfectly safe & healthy, just way late, relying on my skills, experience, navigation to get out on my own. In that case I’d send an OK message to let people know I’m OK and DON’T send out sar.

   Your point that carrying a spot gives false sense of security is totally inaccurate with me & others that I know using the device. I have never made a decision to go somewhere because I have the spot where I would not go without it. Same with avalanche beacons – if the fact that you do or don’t have a beacon factors into the decision of whether to ski a particular slope, you’re doing it wrong. Just because your imagination or experience is too limited to understand that people can use this stuff responsibly and rationally does not entitle you to make bs blanket generalizations.

   If your reasoning here is indicative of how your mind works, perhaps you should be carrying and using that spot a little more – I’d guess you’re gonna need it some time. The wilderness tends to exact its own punishment on arrogance.

   matt & byates1 – right on.

7. OMR December 30th, 2009 4:00 pm

   Kevin, do mom and dad still supply your skins? Hook me up.

8. Jonathan Shefftz December 30th, 2009 4:58 pm

   “According to ACR you are indeed required by law to register your ACR PLB with SARSAT Beacon Registration (address in the PLB docs), but one has to wonder how many people actually do this, when the unit will function without registration?”
   - My estimate of how many people register is every single PLB owner . . . except for this one person causing the current problem. Registration is free and provides information about the owner that could be helpful in a SAR effort. Why would any owner not register? (If the goal is just to cause trouble, then get a deactivated cell phone and randomly call up 911.)

9. Andrew December 30th, 2009 5:03 pm

   I’ve been using a loaner SPOT for about a year and grown to like it quite a bit. I don’t think it provides any more of a false sense of security than an Avalung, avalanche beacon, cell phone, radio or a car for that matter. The technology is still in its infancy, and although there are some things I don’t like about PLB’s, I’m looking forward to the future generations of them when they get things dialed a bit more.

   Sure, people may be sending out false alarms, but you can do that with a HAM radio as well, which should be blamed on the person, not the radio/technology. The false alarms they were getting were probably some snowmobiler who panicked over a runny nose or when he/she got their lips frozen to a beer can.

10. Kevin L December 30th, 2009 5:13 pm

    :angel:

    I re-read my post and don’t understand how my thoughts can be viewed as arrogant. ? Reading about the recent surge of people using PLBs just got me thinking about my own experiances (and mixed emotions) with the Spot and I shared some memories of youth and how I had one forced upon me. That was probably four + years ago and I admit to still carrying it, though I wish to never actually use it for anything other than it’s OK feature.

    I wish my folks still bought me skins… :angel:

    But now they draw the line at letting me live in their basement rent free.

11. Kevin in L in Washington December 30th, 2009 5:21 pm

    And again, there’s been quite a few reports of people using their PLB in rediculous circumstances. Didn’t some family send out three 911s on a single week vacation to the Grand Canyon recently? Each time for reasons not requiring a 911 message?

12. JimC December 30th, 2009 7:05 pm

    Sadly, many folks *do* try things they wouldn’t otherwise attempt when they have a beacon or a SPOT. The 3 activation/3 day story that Kevin refers to can be found here:

    http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/adventure/2009/10/21/spot_calls_lead_to_citation_for_grand_ca

    To quote from the story: “When asked what they would have done without the SPOT device, the leader stated, “We would have never attempted this hike.” ”

    Absolutely irresponsible, and I was glad to see they were issued a citation.

    Fortunately, I think that most readers of WildSnow have a different take on the purpose of these devices. The dilemma that many of us face is whether or not the space and weight of the PLB could be better spent carrying extra gear that would allow US to get OURSELVES out of an emergency.

    For those that do carry PLBs, the vast (vast!) majority do register the units. Registration and updated trip information both provide valuable data that make a successful rescue more likely.

    (Matt, I love the morbid humor of your proposed message! Has me laughing out loud at work!)

13. Nick December 30th, 2009 7:23 pm

    It’s not a new problem. ISTR a marine unit being traced to a dump in the UK a few years ago.

14. Mark W December 30th, 2009 8:29 pm

    PLB’s have grown in popularity, but are they truly commonplace? How does one define commonplace? How many are truly out there in use by backcountry skiers, climbers, hikers, etc?

15. Mark W December 30th, 2009 8:34 pm

    The more certain individuals rely solely on technology, as in things like PLB’s, GPS’s, the more we’ll see stories like some couple getting lost in Oregon because their GPS lead them astray. Some people seem to have a fairly blind faith in the effectiveness of such devices. Perhaps these folks should re-engage common sense, among other things.

16. Lou December 30th, 2009 9:38 pm

    Someone asked why I lumped Spot in with this diatribe. Simply because I feel Spot’s lack of even rudimentary two-way communication makes it very difficult to deal with if the “911″ button is pressed. Sure, you know who it is due to the mandatory account, but that’s it, zip, nada. In other words, you still don’t know if it was a false positive unless you can somehow contact the person who triggered the “911.”

    One step better than ACR for sure, but still…

17. James December 30th, 2009 9:46 pm

    I’ve had a SPOT for about two yeas and take it on most trips. Like a few of the other poster’s, I ski alone and feel it is a justifiable tool. As far as I can say,the device has never played a roll when making a go/no go decision but humans are humans and there will always be people that abuse or misuse any tool. I leave mine on track a lot of the time so my wife can go online and see where I’m at. Also, leaving the thing on track can be handy if you are caught and unable to trigger the 911 button. That way, the thing just keeps sending your location every 10 minutes. I also second the opinion that giving SAR a SPOT location is going to save time and resources, and also make things a lot safer for searchers when they have a location to work with, even if it is just a body recovery operation.
    Allowing manufacturers and retailers to put these things out there without some kind of mandatory registration was a huge oversight that will have to be corrected soon if the service is able to continue. Also, people will have to be held accountable and pay-up when false alarms are triggered. If you want the responsibility of being able to launch a major SAR operation on your behalf with the push of a button then you also have to be willing to accept the consequences when the unit is misused either accidentally or maliciously. And those consequences should be serious.

18. Louie Dawson December 30th, 2009 9:58 pm

    The big reason I carry a spot is, like tony said, to let people know NOT to rescue me. I can remember a few times where I’ve had to rush out to the trail head in the dark so that people wouldn’t be alarmed if I didn’t get back by the scheduled time, when it would have been nicer to just stay where I was for a little longer. I wouldn’t ever use the 911 function unless it was a real life/limb emergency.

    Those people hiking the grand canyon sounded pretty irresponsible, glad they got a ticket.

19. Michael December 30th, 2009 10:29 pm

    As a member of the USCG I have been on SAR cases for EPIRB’s that we knew before we took off that it was most likely a false alarm. I have also searched for a “sinking boat” because of a mayday call that was obviously a fake. I have also done searches for people that were lighting off “flares” on Christmas Eve when we had witnesses at the location stating that it was kids lighting off fireworks.

    No matter what the technology there will be people that abuse or misuse it. That doesn’t mean that responsible, sensible people shouldn’t use the tools that are available.

    Not registering a PLB is dumb. It will only hamper a rescue effort. With a valid contact number a search team can find out a lot more info to assist in their efforts. Combine a PLB and an up to date “float plan” or trip plan taped to the fridge and a search can transition much more quickly into a rescue.

20. Ed December 30th, 2009 10:31 pm

    I have an ACR, it was very obvious to me when I purchased a couple of years ago to register it. I also realize that you don’t use it unless absolutely necessary, to the point of not using it if for example you break an arm or ankle and can still hobble out of the wilderness on your own. In no way do I see it as a false sense of security (e.g. the way some see an avy beacon as an excuse to be an idiot in unstable snow zones). Since I travel solo in the backcountry alot, and realize that I did not want search crews risking their lives looking for me, if the unfortunate ever arises, for days or even weeks, the ACR is a good responsible thing. There will always be idiots, and it sounds like there is one now with an ACR, however, the SAR folks are supposedly planning to check in with the registered contacts of the ACR owner before going out on a rescue.

21. Caleb Wray December 30th, 2009 11:38 pm

    I think the primary selling point behind the SPOT, for most experienced Wildsnow readers, is to keep the wife/girlfriend/parents from worrying or unnecessarily calling rescue. And for that it works perfectly. I think we can all agree on that.

    The more arguable issue is using it for rescue location. In my teens and 20′s I was of the opinion that one should be totally self sufficient and therefore carried no communication equipment. While I carry more than most, experience has shown me that you can’t possibly carry enough equipment to account for every possible crazy event that can and eventually will happen out there. Especially as you venture farther into the sticks for longer periods.

    The bottom line is that this is a good, but not perfect, technology. False positives are inevitable. Cell phones have been a nice societal improvement, but people falsely trigger the 911 feature on them all the time. Speaking to the benefit of two-way communication.

    If you keep a level head, and forget you are even carrying a safety device (beacon, cell phone, SPOT, GPS….) it shouldn’t affect your decision making. But if something goes horribly wrong one day, and this may happen if you are out there enough, you will be glad you have it.

    Note: I have carried a Sat phone on all expeditions since 2004, my wife (more intelligent than me) selected it as a non-negotiable item.

22. Lou December 31st, 2009 8:25 am

    Spot just needs a keypad and limited texting to be the ultimate solution. The genius of Spot, despite it being sometimes iffy due to dependence on satellites, is that one is required to register for the thing to even work. That’s all ACR needs to do. If they don’t, I predict they’ll be required to do that anyway once false alarms become common, which is inevitable once tens of thousands of the things are out floating around in humanity.

    But yeah Caleb, I’m digging my sat phone, so simple and effective.

23. Jonathan Shefftz December 31st, 2009 10:55 am

    “The genius of Spot, despite it being sometimes iffy due to dependence on satellites, is that one is required to register for the thing to even work. That’s all ACR needs to do.”
    – I don’t think ACR (or McMurdo) has that option. Now, Spot can do whatever it wants to do, since it’s a private-sector device, set up to Spot’s own specs. But any PLB is set up to government regs. I suspect those require a PLB to be operational even if the owner has not registered.

24. Lou December 31st, 2009 12:33 pm

    Probably so Jonathan. I’ll predict that such a situation is not sustainable unless the devices in question at least have two-way comm. The future will tell.

25. Ken December 31st, 2009 5:40 pm

    Hey Lou,
    Good point about the lack of vandal hacker prevention. It’s sad things like that are of concern.
    Do other countries require registration?
    Doesn’t the SPOT come not only with a subscription, but some form of rescue insurance?

    Bottom line… If you’re in the backcountry and have no cell, radio, etc. then an itenerary and a PLB can make the difference between a rescue and a (body) recovery. I personally don’t adventure with out BOTH.

    PLBs FAIL so an old fashioned itenerary is IMHO of greater value than a PLB. An adequate itnenerary consists of: A responsible party. A cut off time for your return. Who to call if you no show (I have the sherrif’s non 911 dispatch line). A
    basic map or description of where you are going. Your experience level. A brief equipment list. Don’t make rescuers guess. Don’t stray from what might be the potential search routte. DON’T FORGET TO CHECK IN!

    PLBs often save people who are not carring one themselves. I once was on a very remote road (Oregon Nevada border) and came up on a severly injured (flail sucking chest!) motorcyclist who had been there for hours. It was getting dark and a storm was coming. I couldn’t move or leave him without great risk. He assumed he was dead and told me to tell his family that he loved them. I told him that he would be ok, but I didn’t believe it. Zoinks, POP QUIZ! So I activated my PLB, stabilized the guy as best I could and went for help. Still a long way from town I saw a Sheriff running hot and flagged him down. He confirmed that he was responding to the PLB so I led him back and soon an ambulance arrived. The next morning ER doc said that guy would not have made it much longer, but he would likely recover. Phew! Long night.

    PLBs are not perfect. Sorry to hear of Alpine Rescue’s wild goose chase. If you’re gonna’ be out on Christmas eve at least you could get a good save.
    I once set (my registered) PLB off accidentally while attempting to replace the battery. The SO called quickly. Oops! I felt stupid, like I had an accidental discharge or something, but was really impressed with the response time. Made me feel safer.

    Good point about the PLB location saving SAR resources.

    I agree that PLBs lull unprepared people into a false sense of security and taking less responsibility for their actions… which too often places an unnecessary burden on SAR.
    Every time I put a PLB in my pack I remind myself that is a last resort only and I intend to exhaust all other resources before pushing that button. I hope I don’t wimp out when I am faced with that challenge.

    Happy new year, Ken ;^)

26. Ken December 31st, 2009 6:18 pm

    Stupid Krimnl Trix – Seattle WA
    Did ya’ hear the one about the two Boeing employees who swiped a trans oceanic airliner life raft. Years later they thought it would be fun to float down the river in it. Soon after deploying the raft they were located by a USCG helicopter that had homed in on the automatic PLB (ELT?) and then confronted by grumpy state cops. The recieved grand theft, some kind of public service mis-use charges and a DUI as a bonus. Their sentence included a huge bill for the services and community service for SAR.

    Or the sad one (not related to PLBs) about the guy who fell a few thousand feet off Denali. The climbing partner reported having heard commotion, strange noises and and then silence after the victim went out to relieve himself on the exposed bivy. The ranger investigating the death attributed it to the victim’s having grabbed BenGay instead of the intended PreparationH which, when applied, led to the accident. Yeeeow!
    Ken ;^)

27. DaveC December 31st, 2009 8:25 pm

    Speaking as some time volunteer SAR guy:

    If you own one of these devices, please register, and preferably leave some itinerary with some one at the registration point of contact.

    “A keypad and limited texting” will not make SPOT “the ultimate solution.” The ultimate solution would be 100% reliable. SPOT “coverage” is much better than cell phone coverage, but is not 100% reliable. I don’t know how SPOT coverage compares with a sat phone, but I know that SPOT coverage has occasional gaps in CO and WY mountain terrain. Coverage gaps include occasions when the unit successfully transmits only a portion of the location coordinates. This is likely to be a comparable issue if texting were added to the SPOT. The SPOT also requires up to 20 minutes to verify a transmission – much less than the ultimate.

    A major shortcoming of PLBs is the lack of a practical means of testing the device. Remember your trail head beacon checks? You can’t do that with a PLB. Another problem with the PLB is the lack of user replaceable batteries.

    Finally, a long view of PLBs & SPOTs would consider how long they will be around. SPOT requires a private satellite network ($$$$$$$). SPOT subscriptions can’t sustain it. Some nasty lawsuit against the network owner for screwing up a SPOT message . . . you never know how long it will be viable for. PLB being (internationally) government sponsored, change is likely to be slowww. I’ll guess the network infrastructure will survive false alarms for many years. What I’d like to see would be a fine on PLB manufacturers for any PLB signals that come in from un-registered units they made. If the manufacturer will give you $100 to register, or tap you for $250 if you don’t register in 30 days, PLB owners will register.

    And finally, if you know anyone who was in the area of Berthoud Pass for one or more of the days in question, please forward them the request from Alpine Rescue Team.

28. Lou January 1st, 2010 8:52 am

    Why isn’t two way comm the solution, or at least most of the solution? You get an SOS message, you communicate back and forth, then the decision process is easy. In the rare case of a person on their last dying breath only being able to hit the button and not use a keypad for a text message, yeah, then it wold be more difficult. But common sense says one of the following scenarios would be way better than the other:

    -Scenario one: 911-SOS-Help message comes in, with zero information associated with it. Are you going to fly a helicopter to every one of these if you can’t get there by driving? Perhaps now, but what about the future when more of such messages occur? Funds for helicopters are not limitless.

    - Scenario two: 911-SOS-HELP message comes in, along with a text message saying, “badly sprained ankle, can’t walk, am in my tent, rescue required but am warm and comfortable in sleeping bag and tent next to Dreamcloud Lake.”

29. Jonathan Shefftz January 1st, 2010 11:16 am

    “SPOT requires a private satellite network ($$$$$$$). SPOT subscriptions can’t sustain it.”
    – Nor do Spot subscriptions have to sustain it: that network is used for functions that tracking international ocean shipping containers and other major industrial applications. In other words, Spot is just piggy packing on something much bigger. Same for the GEOS response center – it’s mainly for corporate security.

    “What I’d like to see would be a fine on PLB manufacturers for any PLB signals that come in from un-registered units they made. If the manufacturer will give you $100 to register, or tap you for $250 if you don’t register in 30 days, PLB owners will register.”
    - So someone pays at least $300 or so for a PLB, then foregoes the free registration that will significantly enhance the usefulness of the PLB. I doubt that an additional $100 incentive is going to change the behavior of someone so incompetent and/or strange.

30. Lou January 1st, 2010 6:03 pm

    According to Atkins and Wikipedia, something around 98 percent of PLB activations are false alarms, and very few people register the things. (See update at top of post).

    So far they’ve had SIX false alarms in the Berthoud Pass area coming from the same unit. They’re of course ignoring it to some degree now, but this after they exerted quite a bit of manpower trying to figure out if it was a real distress call or not.

31. Jonathan Shefftz January 1st, 2010 6:05 pm

    I’m baffled by the first point — why bother spending significant $$ on a device yet then not bother filling out the internet form?

    As for the second point, is the definition of a false alarm “oops I pressed the button by mistake” or also calling in a rescue for a non-emergency situation?

32. Lou January 1st, 2010 6:31 pm

    Jonathan, not everyone is that diligent with forms, internet or not!

    I think the definition of false alarm is “oops,” and according to Wiki many are easily resolved.

33. David Becker January 1st, 2010 7:49 pm

    Hello All;
    I also have been going backcountry solo all my adult life, and I’m pleased to read the comments on this blog that there are many others that do so responsibly.
    Also, i’ve been a Civil Air Patrol SAR pilot for about 40 years, and from that perspective, have a comment for consideration. Much of the conversation is around the issue of efficiency of the beacon initiated SAR effort. In other words, how much wasted effort has occurred, and how to reduce that. We mustn’t forget that the purpose of the system is to be effective, not efficient. Effectiveness would be measured in how many saves there are, that wouldn’t have occurred without the beacons. For example, the CAP spends many hours and sorties going after false alarms, but that cost is insignificant compared with missions that end with lives saved.
    So, it’s good to strive to minimize the waste in the beacon system, but some inefficiency is unavoidable in any system that’s functioning for maximum effectiveness. Our challenge is how to wisely reduce the inefficiencies without reducing the effectiveness.
    Thoughtful discussions like this are a good step towards that.
    Incidentally, I use a SPOT while BC skiing, kayaking, hiking, and photography, and have had 100% success is signal completion, even from deep in canyons. I think proper placement and patience are the key.

34. Jeff H January 6th, 2010 12:59 am

    I wonder if a rebate program might encourage registration. Mandatory inflation of all PLB’s by X amount of dollars that is returned upon registration. I wouldn’t think that it would take the prevention of too many false alarms/chases to recover the burden of such a program.

35. Lou January 6th, 2010 8:31 am

    Jeff, they will inevitably need something like that. Continuing the present course is patently ridiculous.

36. Pete Nelson January 6th, 2010 12:24 pm

    There was a recent incident in NH where a PLB was apparently used successfully. There’s not too many details written about it just yet but it might be interesting to get some firsthand reports back on the actual incident and the accompanying rescue procedure.

    http://www.wildnh.com/Newsroom/News_2010/News_2010_Q1/SR_missing_hiker_rescued_010510.html

37. Jonathan Shefftz January 6th, 2010 12:33 pm

    As with all initial (and often even final) media reports on such incidents, there might be far more to the story than written up there, but based on the information reported so far, having to hike 1.5 miles on Moosilauke with only a single snowshoe does not constitute a valid PLB or Spot activation.

38. Paul B January 6th, 2010 12:59 pm

    Update: I saw this on backcountry / the goat, who often references you Lou.

    Sounds like almost what you have been looking for. Sends texts, but does not receive them.

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/185882/delorme_spot_take_gps_and_texting_where_phones_cant.html

    Receiving them doesn’t seem as important as sending. Any message received from S&R would be something like “Stay where you are”.

39. DaveC January 6th, 2010 1:23 pm

    Replying to to a couple of responses to my earlier comment:

    100% two way communication would be the ideal. No doubt a shortcoming of the Spot is the inability to follow up, or potentially take back a 911 alert. My point about Spot is that it isn’t (yet?) completely reliable for one way communication. The ideal solution would be more reliable than Spot has been to date.

    My point about the cost of the satellite connection is that the Spot/ remote back country alert device market is not enough to financially sustain a satellite network. Yes, sure, there are other markets for satellite tracking services. The point is that Spot is a small part of the income for the satellite network. The satellite guys get pissed off at Spot, somebody gets nervous about lawsuits, Spot runs into financial trouble and can’t upgrade its technology to work with the next generation of satellites, etc., Spot could have a problem.

    Alternatively, PLB’s have the much larger resources of pretty much all the governments of industrialized countries. That financial might may make for a more reliable satellite network down the road. Of course you are relying on the a collection of countries’ governments to make the system work. That’s not necessarily an iron clad guarantee of future reliability either.

    Re: Dave Becker’s comment on alert – rescue efficiency: Much as the rescuers and some of the public would like to think that no expense should be spared to save a life, that just isn’t realistic. CAP and volunteer SAR resources are limited. If limited SAR resources are tied up in a false alert, and potential response to a true emergency is compromised. This doesn’t come up often, but as Lou mentioned, if there are two many false alerts, SAR & CAP just won’t have the patience to keep responding to them. Snarky ground pounder SAR comment, re: CAP: I look forward to the day that CAP has the technology to electronically assist with terrestrial PLB searches. I don’t think that day is hear yet.

    I work for a federal regulatory agency in my day job. Another regulatory approach would be to require PLB retailers to get registration at the point of sale, sort of like gun sales. That doesn’t guarantee registrations stay current, but it puts the initial registration onus on a business which theoretically has a more business like approach to their activities.

40. jerimy January 6th, 2010 9:12 pm

    Looks like SPOT has been listening to users and teamed up with Delorme on a GPS with texting. Only outbound messages but a huge step in the right direction.

    http://tinyurl.com/yd66zdy

41. Lou January 6th, 2010 9:23 pm

    Indeed, a terrific step. Thanks for the link!

42. DaveC January 7th, 2010 7:47 am

    Recent developments:

    The problem continues, most recent alerts around Berthoud Pass, after one near Crested Butte New Years Eve.

    The retail point of sale has been identified and its in the Denver area. Promising efforts are underway to identify specific purchasers. The retailer’s records show a group of individuals who bought ACR PLBs, but do not identify which individual purchased which PLB.

    Again, if you know anyone who has been recreating near Berthoud Pass this week, and especially if they were at Crested Butte over New Years, please ask them to read this post. If you or they actually have a PLB, please contact Dale Atkins and/ or Alpine Rescue Team (see start of thread).

43. David Becker January 7th, 2010 10:11 am

    To DaveC;
    Your comments on limited resources are quite correct.
    The CAP does presently have capability to track all ELT and PLB signals. These devices transmit on 121.5 and 409 Mhz, The direction finders that CAP currently uses, both in aircraft and portable units, can track these frequencies. Some older DF units didn’t track 409 Mhz, but all the newer ones for the last few years do so.
    Generally the local sheriff has to request the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center at Maxwell AFB for CAP support for ground searches, and that sometimes doesn’t happen for various reasons. If CAP isn’t requested for support, it might be because the SAR folks on the ground aren’t aware the capability exists. I know we have an active program in Idaho to educate the local sheriffs and SAR groups of CAP’s support capabilities, but this doesn’t happen everywhere.
    David Becker

44. jerimy January 8th, 2010 1:08 pm

    Looks like it was too good to be true. You need BOTH a SPOT 2 and the new Delorme PN-60W for this to work. They then communicate to each other via wireless link. Would be so much better if it were only one device.
    http://tinyurl.com/yjh3q7t

45. Phil January 8th, 2010 3:37 pm

    OK My 2 cents..I BC ski, sea kayak,backpack, free dive and dirt bike ride solo in very remote locations where cell phones are not an option..add to that I am 67 years young and no longer feeling invincible…

    First it may have been mentioned but a Spot is NOT a PLB…PLBs [such as my ACR Microfix {light weight and waterproof to 10m}] must be registered with NOAA…Lou’s comment that he carries a Spot to let folks not rush to his rescue is a kool idea I had never thought of…but if and when it is down to you surviving or not surviving you push the big red button on the PLB…I guess my ego and pride is strong enough now to acknowledge that all those years of operating without a safety net may have stroked my self-esteem but now each day is preciou..

    Ok buy a Spot to show your track or let someone know you are OK..but I have seen the Spot greatly abused…situations that were an inconvience and not a threat generated first responders galloping in to help when they were not needed..a lot of “cry wolf” stuff..A PLB is not a tracker, it is not a “Hi honey here is where I have been”..a PLB is for declaring your life is threatened and you need a rescue…nothing else.

    A Spot has issues and like a cell phone is often misused. Take your pick a Spot commercial location system or a PLB military location system of satilites accessed around the globe.

    Will PLBs also be misused? Of course. Hopefully this will not kill what is a superb system of locating a dying person in time to save them…average dispatch time after activation of a PLB is 5 mins…and the satilites put them within 100 m of your location.

    Yes, I like to pull the tail of the dragon, but more and more I really want to live to do it again and again…at least until I am 100!

    To each there own…

46. Brent January 12th, 2010 6:15 pm

    True! SPOTs are not PLBs.

    See this informative forum post for details:

    http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=22083

47. Pierce March 3rd, 2010 9:15 am

    I’m sorry, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but WHAT A $%&*!!! IDIOT. If balloon boy’s father got fined for the rescue he caused, so should this guy. There is just no excuse. I hope he was at the doctor’s getting his head checked.

    Perhaps the reason why SAR and the Sheriffs are not pressing charges is because they feel ACR has some culpability for the reasons you state, Lou. I agree there should be some hard requirement for registration, and a hit-you-over-the-head warning when activated. Good lord, didn’t even read the box, let alone the instructions.

48. Lou March 3rd, 2010 9:31 am

    What Pierce said.

49. jgage March 3rd, 2010 9:51 am

    Only in Colorado!

50. DaveC March 3rd, 2010 9:56 am

    Not reading the instructions, donning an avalanche transceiver, turning it on and hoping for the best sorely tempts Darwin as well.

    From the news accounts, vis a vis balloon boy:
    -Balloon boy dad was alleged to have decieved authorities. PLB moron apparently convinced authorities that his intentions were not deceptive.
    -Balloon boy got international news coverage. PLB moron got a little bit of Denver area media. More media exposure of false reporting incidents makes authorities more likely to prosecute.
    -I believe it is FCC or maybe FAA who has jurisdiction over false PLB reports. In theory the Feds could still go after PLB moron (not likely?)

    Thanks Lou for posting this. If there is any silver lining from this incident, it would be the opportunity to spread the word to recreationalists to register their PLBs.

    Personally, I say FINE retailers who sell non-registered PLBs. Prohibit retailers from selling PLBs without registration. Probably talking to a brick wall, but absent a viable accountability mechanism forcing PLB owners to register (and update!), Lou is right that PLBs are headed towards uselessness because of the overwhelming number of false alarms.

51. Matt Kinney March 3rd, 2010 10:20 am

    Interesting that his ski partners never checked his beacon. That is some serious ignorance by BC skiers. :shocked:

    I carry my sat phone in areas where my cell phone does not work. I show my partners how it works. Then i keep either phone OFF while touring. Agree with lou that direct verbal comms is the best thing in an emergency. This is soooo much better than SPOT, EPrirbs, etc…….

    Won’t even touch the subject of where I stash or wear it while skiing, lest I be accused of being “negligent”. :getlost:

    Skiing with a group from CO later this month so I guess I better check their beacons a bit close… :w00t:

52. KDog March 3rd, 2010 10:27 am

    Pierce is right on the money. It’s not the gadget it’s the human using it. If every piece of tech invented had to pass the “idiot” test, we would never see anything make it to market. The relentless pace of advancements is bound to leave more than a few people behind.

    Many older backcountry savvy people I ski with, are loath to give up their M1/M2 beacons in favor of new technology. They are super comfortable and practiced with their old gear and any deficit in the devices is more than made up for with experience.

    Contrast that to the new Slackcountry skier with all the gadets hanging like bling bling around their necks. Digital S1 beacons, GPS, PLB, Avalung, ABS pack, GMRS radio/SAT phone and zero experience. It’s a false sense of safety created by the “Technology Halo” and it’s not “idiot” proof.

53. Francis March 3rd, 2010 10:45 am

    talk about educating users on the backcountry….holy moly

54. Lou March 3rd, 2010 10:52 am

    jgage, now that hurts!

55. Thomas B March 3rd, 2010 11:27 am

    I think it’s time to put the”risk” back into high risk activities like skiing. :biggrin:
    No PLB, just a brain, continuing knowledge, reliable partners, good practices and a functionning avy beacon and small med kit+ WFR cert.
    To those that say “PLBs don’t change their decision making”, I think you are deceiving yourselves, it may be subtle or unconcious but you wouldn’t have bought it otherwise. ( beacons do the same btw)
    Be 100% honest with yourself and your overprotective ego before dismissing my last comment…just sayin’…..

56. jgage March 3rd, 2010 11:43 am

    I am sorry, I just couldn’t help it…

    :biggrin:

57. Phil March 3rd, 2010 11:48 am

    Ouch! The PLBs or those that manufacturer them are responsible for bone head decisions or misuse? …ya that makes sense.

    As for putting “risk back” into any activity; it is really up to the individual and always a matter of degrees….come on, why not leave the avy beacon at home also? What 15% of burials survive? So what the hell, why even carry a shovel?
    To bury poop? I say respect a person’s tolerance for risk and don’t judge them.

    As for cell phones, sat phones, GPSs, laptops etc etc etc that is an individual decision…what I do agree with is making persons accountable and responsible for their decisions..all their decisions.

    Also NOAA administers the registration of the true PLBs [such as ACRs] and not the person selling them….in the long run having a PLB to guide SAR crews saves time and is less dangerous than search for the needle in the hay stack..

    Lastly ACR, for a fee, will now send an “OK” message to a designated person [s] when you run a test [to assure it is in fact transmitting] with the PLB in the field….as Lou said letting folks know that even though you are over due that nobody has to charge out to find or assist you is a good feature..

    Anyway this chatter on Spots or PLBs is like debating apple pie and motherhood….nothing is really accomplished..

58. Derek March 3rd, 2010 11:50 am

    They need to make a system that once activated it must be turn off by the SAR or company itself. That way it you do accidentally activate it and can’t get it off in the time window before the signal I s sent 30sec. or min. You have to explain why you are an idiot that shouldn’t have one of these things and then take the penalty for wasting time and money. It should go along the line of dialing 911. Another thing that MUST happen is registration. If you don’t take the time to register it don’t expect a rescue.

59. John B March 3rd, 2010 12:10 pm

    If you make a better mousetrap you make a better idiot? Oregon is fighting to stay in first place with electronic stupidity. http://www.katu.com/news/local/86054242.html

60. Lou March 3rd, 2010 12:45 pm

    Phil, I disagree about nothing being accomplished with our chat. I can think of two things without even trying:
    - Raising awareness of using this technology correctly.
    - Industry reads this, and they get validation about ideas such as making the units work better.

61. Phil March 3rd, 2010 1:57 pm

    Lou…Man I hope so! But no matter how good the planning or design my experience is that nothing is “fool” proof and poor judgement is becoming very prevalent….and it is only my opinion but public awareness is for naught since common sense is getting very, very scarce…like I said I will keep the faith but stupid is as stupid does and there seems to be no end in sight….

    Good grief but ain’t gettin’ to be a cranky old fart! Perhaps cuz the snow is thin here this season and more than our share of instability layers..

    Hey…have you found a ‘better’ Manaslu? :biggrin: I love mine..but use my Kilowatts/Fritschis on patrol to avoid the Dynafit Tap Dance when time is of the essence..take care.

62. Tom Gos March 3rd, 2010 3:19 pm

    It sure does seem that PLB’s could be better designed with some of the idiot features described above. I’ve never used one, but it seems crazy to have it send as soon as its turned on (how do you check the batteries?). I’m betting that these things quickly go the way of the dodo because rescue agencies will simply refuse to respond to them. And, I think I’ve read that California is expieriencing the most false activations (the land of fruits and nuts and all that). Sat phone technology will probably advance and become less costly so people will end up using those instead.

63. pete March 3rd, 2010 3:34 pm

    Noticed that ACR is now offering the 406Link service for the “I’m OK” peace of mind crowd.
    http://www.406link.com/
    I think the technology is eventually headed towards a more robust and low cost device along the lines of a combination PLB/Sat phone/SmartPhone/GPS. It’s coming whether you like it or not so I agree with the statement that this dialog and conversation can help in some ways to spec out what’s most useful and to whom.

64. Ken March 3rd, 2010 6:26 pm

    Hey Lou,
    Just wanted to complement you on stirring up a great debate on PLBs. There are certainly many strong opinions, but if the PLB mfgs, SAR, pro guide and backcountry users are listening (as I hope they are) this debate could save many lives.
    You inspired me to get a field programmable radio in the mid 80′s. I remember catching grief from the purists back then… and it seems, based on some of the spirited debate here, that little has changed.
    Having served on a few different SARs and been a guide, I am 100% for intelligent improvement in backcountry communication. The merging of existing and affordable technologies (“I’m OK”, 2 way comm, Sat, GPS, etc.) represents a major leap forward in the ability to effectively and efficiently identify, confirm, locate and extract a victim. It’s all about saving more lives in less time with fewer resources.
    Having done my share of dumb things in the backcountry, I find it hard to judge others too harshly and can only hope that the other dumb doers learn faster than fate can catch them. Should fate catch them, I hope they have a way to call for help.
    Having been a firefighter/medic I can say that many fire rescue calls are FAs (false alarms), but the ability to call for help saves lives and FAs do not stop fire rescue from showing up EVERY time as if some one’s life depended on it.
    I appreciate how frustrating it can be for SAR with personnel and budgets stretched thin to respond to FAs, but improving the technology could, if done right, reduce the FAs and increase the saves.
    Sincerely,
    Ken Ward
    Ashland OR

65. College March 4th, 2010 1:15 am

    I hope to read more from you! Your articles always provide relevant topics that are interesting enough to keep me reading until the last sentence. Thank You and I look forward to your next post.

66. Jonathan Shefftz March 4th, 2010 7:40 am

    ” I’ve never used one, but it seems crazy to have it send as soon as its turned on [....]”
    – That is *not* how they work . . . although I can understand how you can be led to think that after reading many of the comments here.
    – Having owned a PLB, I am absolutely baffled as to how anyone could possibly: 1) not bother to register it; and, even more astounding, 2) activate the rescue signal in a casual manner. (Even without reading the user manual, it’s immediately obvious that the rescue signal is not meant to be activated like, say, an avy beacon.)

67. sherryb March 4th, 2010 11:01 am

    Wow!! I guess it was predictable what a huge response this topic would arouse. Here’s a sad and horrifying thought about personal emergency locators. How long will it take for us to ignore them as we do car alarms these days? Does anybody really investigate car alarms anymore, when many are going off and on or endlessly trolling their “emergency” in our public parking garages and maul : ) lots?
    I know that is a huge leap in thinking and emergency agencies have an obligation to investigate (note I did not use the word “respond”) but I think it would be easy to become jaded to the whole thing.

68. Lou March 4th, 2010 11:26 am

    Ken, thank for chiming in!

69. Lou March 4th, 2010 11:27 am

    Sherry, your point is exactly what I’ve been harping on. Car alarms are a great example!

70. Phil March 4th, 2010 11:46 am

    A big problem is the lack of knowledge and then compounded with suppositions or WAGs. Yes, 9-1-1 calls have also been abused to the point of being almost laughable…and yes I personally know of three “help” calls on Spots that should never have been sent [off road motorcycle] but that doesn’t negate the value of the Spot [it has its place, just not in my pack] …a true PLB such as my ACR is a different kettle of fish…it is NOAA/US SAR center controlled, average response to signal and call to local SAR is 5 mins…to activate the ACR you must unlock the antenna and put it in the up position, only when the antenna is up can you access the only button on the ACR the “send” [on/off] button. There is no ‘accidental’ sending of an emergency signal. Panic based on real or perceived threats is unpredictable in everyone at anytime….I spent 35 years working in high risk environments as a risk manager and to this day my response is never 100% assured….so where does that leave the issue of whether we should or should not carry an electronic emergency signaling device? My personal feeling is that more and more folks are becoming more and more dependent on someone else bailing them out even in the most mundane of circumstances…few, very few take the full responsibility of being the best prepared they possibly can BEFORE engaging in a high risk activity…many if not most prefer to buy gadgets hoping that they will make-up for their personal lack of survival skills…tracking beacons [Spot] or PLBs [ACR] are becoming our crutches but for the few who do prepare they can be a life saver..so yes, let them proliferate because the persons saved through their correct use will overshadow the use by the ill prepared.

    But they are not foolproof nor will they always save your bacon…learn their limits and go to them as a ‘hail Mary’ last resort…or as has been noted, to let folks know NOT to call out the troops cuz you are doing fine even if you are overdue.

    Hey Lou..how about my Manaslu question…have you found a better ski? :biggrin:

71. pete March 4th, 2010 2:29 pm

    From ACR corporate twitter feed: ACR PLB used in the USCG helicopter crash in Utah coming back from the Olympics
    http://bit.ly/9Co79h

72. ffelix March 4th, 2010 5:38 pm

    Compensating behavior is pretty well established, & certainly will occur with PLBs, et al. Atkins has even published on it as it relates to decision-making in avalanche terrain.

    The effects can be either positive or negative from a survivability standpoint. What very few researchers in any field would argue is that asking people what effect things have on them is about the least reliable way to figure things out–sorry SPOT owners posting here

    Here’s a link to a study that references some of the seminal research in the field [Pelzman, Viscusi, etc.]:
    http://alturl.com/ieet

73. Art 631 March 4th, 2010 8:49 pm

    You may all be interested to know that the SAR community is actively engaged in the discussion of correct use of PLBs, etc.: http://www.nasar.org/nasar/news.php?id=332

    Howard Paul
    Alpine Rescue Team, Evergreen, Colorado http://www.alpinerescueteam.org
    Public Affairs Manager, Colorado SAR Board http://www.coloradoSARboard.org
    Board of Directors, National Association for Search and Rescue http://www.nasar.org

74. Njord March 5th, 2010 11:07 am

    Bwwwwhahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!

    I needed a good laugh this morning… too bad this guy sounds like someone that I might have to dig out one day (when he gets a “real” beacon).:wink:

75. Mark W March 5th, 2010 9:26 pm

    To bad the dodos tend to mess things up for the rest of us. I am glad to hear that thinking, responsible users do still make up a portion of those who use units like the Spot, otherwise the whole story would be completely embarrassing.

76. Rich March 7th, 2010 1:12 am

    Only in Colorado, LOL! You can really make this stuff up.

77. Kidd March 8th, 2010 9:05 am

    Ten bucks he’s not from Colorado.

78. John March 24th, 2010 8:40 pm

    The FCC allows Emergency Distress calls on “whatever frequency seems to offer the best chance of getting a usefull answer”. I carry a 5 watt UHF/VHF radio capable of transmitting and recieving in this entire spectrum (AKA a rubber radio or opened up radio). Not illegal to own but illegal to operate on non-licenced frequencys, commercial or ametuer, unless there is a true emergency.

    As a Spot owner I have designated a frequency in the Help and SOS message so that 2-way communication may be established, if in range.

    I presume that if I have to activate the Spot for outside assistance I will be helping others, and will possibly be able to communicate on a pre-determined frequency.

    Just wanted to get some feedback on this concept (particularly in dead radio zones)for sending a pre-established frequency.

    John

79. Jerry Lamontine May 26th, 2010 8:30 pm

    HR Smith Group (England) / Specmat Technologies Technologies (USA) offers the 500-12 Personal Locator Beacon is designed to work with the COSPAS-SARSAT search and rescue satellite system and features 406 MHz as well as 121.5 MHz and 243 MHz distress signals. It also incorporates a speech function which allows survivors to have two way voice communication with a rescue craft. This PLB offers the two way voice feature so the person in distress can talk with the rescue forces – same feature that is available to military PLBs. More details at this link: http://www.hr-smith.com/products/elt-plb.html

    Hope this is useful.

    Jerry

    Black Forest, Colorado, USA

80. Mark June 11th, 2010 5:41 pm

    in response to first comment, from Kevin L. in December 2009:

    Kevin, you are an idiot.

    Regarding your PLB, you wrote that in an absolute emergency, “I’d like to think I wouldn’t use it, no matter what happens, that I’d be bold enough to toss the thing aside and die a lonely death in the wild”.

    I sincerely hope you get the chance to realize this dream of yours as soon as possible. Once you do, those of us who haven’t romanticized “survival” to the point of utter idiocy will laugh at the irony of your moronic demise. We will be capable of laughter because we will be STILL ALIVE.

    p.s. IDIOT!!!

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