Comments on: Backcountry Bomb Is… The Bomb http://www.wildsnow.com/2202/backcountry-skiing-cornice-cutting/ Backcountry Skiing Weblog Blog, FAQs, more, links and info about randonnee, telemark and backcountry ski mountaineering. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:30:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Dave http://www.wildsnow.com/2202/backcountry-skiing-cornice-cutting/comment-page-1/#comment-35478 Dave Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:37:21 +0000 http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=2202#comment-35478 Surprised to see this thread born-again. Knocking down cornices IS fun. My ONLY concern with folks trundling cornices comes from creating unnecessary avalanches. In some places, this isn't a problem. However, in crowded ranges those thinner areas tend to avalanche repeatedly. Almost always, most of the slopes that don't slide during or immediately after a storm DON'T slide. Given a few more days, patient people might ski them safely. Insuring the safety of those cutting cornices and those below should be self-evident, as Lou says. However, in my crowded little range foks should also consider the long-term consequences of dropping cornices for fun. Peace Surprised to see this thread born-again.

Knocking down cornices IS fun. My ONLY concern with folks trundling cornices comes from creating unnecessary avalanches. In some places, this isn’t a problem. However, in crowded ranges those thinner areas tend to avalanche repeatedly. Almost always, most of the slopes that don’t slide during or immediately after a storm DON’T slide. Given a few more days, patient people might ski them safely. Insuring the safety of those cutting cornices and those below should be self-evident, as Lou says. However, in my crowded little range foks should also consider the long-term consequences of dropping cornices for fun.

Peace

]]> By: John Dough http://www.wildsnow.com/2202/backcountry-skiing-cornice-cutting/comment-page-1/#comment-35476 John Dough Thu, 21 Apr 2011 15:17:19 +0000 http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=2202#comment-35476 Sure, dropping cornices should not be the end all test to slope stability. But it is a good tool and should be just one in your arsenal. If avy danger is so high that you are only going to ski a line after you drop a cornice on it then you should reevaluate your approach to backcountry skiing, especially in CO. The statement that it should not be done for fun is preposterous! Dropping cornices, when done properly, can be a blast and causes no harm to anyone or anything. Using common sense and logic you can determine how to do this safely. First rule: MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THERE IS NO ONE UNDER YOU. Secondly, make sure that all participants are on solid ground or on belay , with an extremely solid anchor, or both. You definitely find yourself being lured into getting closer to the edge to get a good angle on the cornice. Don't do that. Cutting cornices is not the same as trundling, snow melts and is renewed the next year. There is no harm done to the environment unless you consider the reduced amount of erosion from the melt of the cornice in the summer I guess. Sure, dropping cornices should not be the end all test to slope stability. But it is a good tool and should be just one in your arsenal. If avy danger is so high that you are only going to ski a line after you drop a cornice on it then you should reevaluate your approach to backcountry skiing, especially in CO.

The statement that it should not be done for fun is preposterous! Dropping cornices, when done properly, can be a blast and causes no harm to anyone or anything. Using common sense and logic you can determine how to do this safely. First rule: MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THERE IS NO ONE UNDER YOU. Secondly, make sure that all participants are on solid ground or on belay , with an extremely solid anchor, or both. You definitely find yourself being lured into getting closer to the edge to get a good angle on the cornice. Don’t do that.

Cutting cornices is not the same as trundling, snow melts and is renewed the next year. There is no harm done to the environment unless you consider the reduced amount of erosion from the melt of the cornice in the summer I guess.

]]> By: claude http://www.wildsnow.com/2202/backcountry-skiing-cornice-cutting/comment-page-1/#comment-35474 claude Thu, 21 Apr 2011 14:59:16 +0000 http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=2202#comment-35474 it was used long time ago by ski patrol bu so tough to put in place and tnot really useful in the real life...so f you want extra weight in your day pack you could find something cheaper. it was used long time ago by ski patrol bu so tough to put in place and tnot really useful in the real life…so f you want extra weight in your day pack you could find something cheaper.

]]> By: Lou http://www.wildsnow.com/2202/backcountry-skiing-cornice-cutting/comment-page-1/#comment-35471 Lou Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:07:40 +0000 http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=2202#comment-35471 I've dropped cornices for years as stability test. If the slope is small enough in relation to the cornice, the process is totally valid in my opinion. If done responsibly and with great care, the process is safe and legit. But I would offer that cornices kill a lot of mountaineers, and anything that causes folks to play around with cornices rather than give them WIDE birth is something to be very concerned about. Ropes and anchors should be involved, frequently, and spectators should be placed in 100% safe locations even if it means they can't see some of the entertainment. Doing it with knowledge of what's below (no people) is axiomatic, but I suppose should be mentioned. It also might be good to watch our semantics and thought process. The operative word is we are "testing" the snow, rather than deliberately starting avalanches. Even here in the facet scare and surface hoar nightmare snowpack of Colorado, I'd say 99% of the cornice cutting and dropping I've ever done did NOT trigger a slide that was any more than a small point release or sluff. In my opinion, when conditions lend themselves to a cornice drop, and it's done carefully, it is sure a lot better than the sometimes dubious exercise of ski cutting. I’ve dropped cornices for years as stability test. If the slope is small enough in relation to the cornice, the process is totally valid in my opinion. If done responsibly and with great care, the process is safe and legit. But I would offer that cornices kill a lot of mountaineers, and anything that causes folks to play around with cornices rather than give them WIDE birth is something to be very concerned about. Ropes and anchors should be involved, frequently, and spectators should be placed in 100% safe locations even if it means they can’t see some of the entertainment.

Doing it with knowledge of what’s below (no people) is axiomatic, but I suppose should be mentioned.

It also might be good to watch our semantics and thought process. The operative word is we are “testing” the snow, rather than deliberately starting avalanches. Even here in the facet scare and surface hoar nightmare snowpack of Colorado, I’d say 99% of the cornice cutting and dropping I’ve ever done did NOT trigger a slide that was any more than a small point release or sluff.

In my opinion, when conditions lend themselves to a cornice drop, and it’s done carefully, it is sure a lot better than the sometimes dubious exercise of ski cutting.

]]> By: Matt Kinney http://www.wildsnow.com/2202/backcountry-skiing-cornice-cutting/comment-page-1/#comment-35467 Matt Kinney Thu, 21 Apr 2011 05:47:03 +0000 http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=2202#comment-35467 I use the Backcountry Bomb for fun quite a bit. It is fun wether it is necessary or not. It's a hoot if done properly and safely with no one below. I had lots of fun with it just yesterday demonstrating how it is used to others. When I see the right cornice I get all excited and head right to it, rig it up to my avalanche probe and go "flyfishing" for cornices. To see the energy in the snowpack released is simply exciting to many. We do not have a shortage of cornices up here and there are vast areas to safely have fun time releasing cornice for entertainment. If you have not used the device you have no idea what you are missing from a practical standpoint. Cannot think of many better ways to test a slope than dropping 500-1000- one ton cornice on it. I use the Backcountry Bomb for fun quite a bit. It is fun wether it is necessary or not. It’s a hoot if done properly and safely with no one below. I had lots of fun with it just yesterday demonstrating how it is used to others. When I see the right cornice I get all excited and head right to it, rig it up to my avalanche probe and go “flyfishing” for cornices. To see the energy in the snowpack released is simply exciting to many. We do not have a shortage of cornices up here and there are vast areas to safely have fun time releasing cornice for entertainment. If you have not used the device you have no idea what you are missing from a practical standpoint.

Cannot think of many better ways to test a slope than dropping 500-1000- one ton cornice on it.

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