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	<title>Comments on: Backcountry Skiing News Roundup</title>
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	<description>Backcountry Skiing Snowboard Telemark Snowsports Information News</description>
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		<title>By: Cory</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/2196/backcountry-skiing-news-roundup-47/comment-page-1/#comment-20014</link>
		<dc:creator>Cory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>New technologies are the issue.  Take the second amendment for instance.  We have the right to bear arms, but I don&#039;t think the forefathers could have imagined nuclear arms.  So, as new technology came out they had to re-evaluate and look at the intent of the law.  
Same thing with conserving public lands.  Originally, they didn&#039;t have to worry about mountain bikes, snowmobiles, atv&#039;s, helicopters, etc.  because they didn&#039;t exist.  Now, as they become more prevailent, they must address the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New technologies are the issue.  Take the second amendment for instance.  We have the right to bear arms, but I don&#8217;t think the forefathers could have imagined nuclear arms.  So, as new technology came out they had to re-evaluate and look at the intent of the law.<br />
Same thing with conserving public lands.  Originally, they didn&#8217;t have to worry about mountain bikes, snowmobiles, atv&#8217;s, helicopters, etc.  because they didn&#8217;t exist.  Now, as they become more prevailent, they must address the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Randonnee</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/2196/backcountry-skiing-news-roundup-47/comment-page-1/#comment-20010</link>
		<dc:creator>Randonnee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This WWA website &quot;Snowpack Initiative&quot; verbage illustrates the rich topic  :blink: that Lou introduced here- 

&quot;Human-powered winter sports can be seen as climate change “indicator activities” because we, are some of the first to experience the impacts of climate change on our public lands. Declining snowpack shortens ski and snowshoe seasons. Climate change can degrade limit, and in some cases eliminate opportunities for winter recreation.&quot;

Perfect logic? Somehow non-human-powered winter sports would not be affected by less snow? &quot;Indicator activities.&quot; :lol: 

We have seen biologic nonsense before. For example, the use of the Spotted Owl theories stopped most logging on WA Federal Lands. Surveys have found large numbers of this critter, studies show other causes of decline, such as competing owls, yet logging remains shut down largely. Not to say that controlling some of the  excess logging was bad, but the extreme result is now a bad situation. 

Similarly the same forces, if given the chance and helped by WWA and others, will not blink at prohibiting us from any activities that cause snow compaction.  

This GW thing is the newest, biggest idea to gain even more political control to save the critters at the expense of mankind. Believe it, sadly much of this advocacy quickly becomes anti-human.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This WWA website &#8220;Snowpack Initiative&#8221; verbage illustrates the rich topic  <img src='http://www.wildsnow.com/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Nomicons v2.0/blink.png' alt=':blink:' class='wp-smiley' /> that Lou introduced here- </p>
<p>&#8220;Human-powered winter sports can be seen as climate change “indicator activities” because we, are some of the first to experience the impacts of climate change on our public lands. Declining snowpack shortens ski and snowshoe seasons. Climate change can degrade limit, and in some cases eliminate opportunities for winter recreation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perfect logic? Somehow non-human-powered winter sports would not be affected by less snow? &#8220;Indicator activities.&#8221; <img src='http://www.wildsnow.com/wp-content/plugins/smilies-themer/Nomicons v2.0/laughing.png' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>We have seen biologic nonsense before. For example, the use of the Spotted Owl theories stopped most logging on WA Federal Lands. Surveys have found large numbers of this critter, studies show other causes of decline, such as competing owls, yet logging remains shut down largely. Not to say that controlling some of the  excess logging was bad, but the extreme result is now a bad situation. </p>
<p>Similarly the same forces, if given the chance and helped by WWA and others, will not blink at prohibiting us from any activities that cause snow compaction.  </p>
<p>This GW thing is the newest, biggest idea to gain even more political control to save the critters at the expense of mankind. Believe it, sadly much of this advocacy quickly becomes anti-human.</p>
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		<title>By: Randonnee</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/2196/backcountry-skiing-news-roundup-47/comment-page-1/#comment-20007</link>
		<dc:creator>Randonnee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Similarity to gun control advocacy? Antis get motivated to ban something based on illegal use. None of us condone snowmobile poaching in Wilderness or non-Wilderness. Improper snomo-use is unacceptable to this snomo-user, and I have worked to prevent it with my advocacy and labor in order to protect non-motorized areas. 

Lou is right-on, prohibiting access for species protection to motorized or non-motorized users goes hand in hand. Many of us have witnessed even pedestrians prohibited from too many areas of our public lands!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Similarity to gun control advocacy? Antis get motivated to ban something based on illegal use. None of us condone snowmobile poaching in Wilderness or non-Wilderness. Improper snomo-use is unacceptable to this snomo-user, and I have worked to prevent it with my advocacy and labor in order to protect non-motorized areas. </p>
<p>Lou is right-on, prohibiting access for species protection to motorized or non-motorized users goes hand in hand. Many of us have witnessed even pedestrians prohibited from too many areas of our public lands!</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/2196/backcountry-skiing-news-roundup-47/comment-page-1/#comment-20006</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Basic evolutionary biology. Good to see it put in words so well Frank, and what&#039;s in the study has indeed been mine and many other people&#039;s experience. Main point? I wish the anti snowmobile folks would quit talking about wildlife, because when the searchlight swings to us, after the snowmobiles are gone, then yikes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basic evolutionary biology. Good to see it put in words so well Frank, and what&#8217;s in the study has indeed been mine and many other people&#8217;s experience. Main point? I wish the anti snowmobile folks would quit talking about wildlife, because when the searchlight swings to us, after the snowmobiles are gone, then yikes!</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Konsella</title>
		<link>http://www.wildsnow.com/2196/backcountry-skiing-news-roundup-47/comment-page-1/#comment-20001</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Konsella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just to re-iterate what Lou said above re: the effects on animals by snowmobiles and people on foot.  Granted, I took this from a snowmobile advocacy website  (http://www.snowmobile.org/facts_ece.asp), but it&#039;s still university studies.  I know that if someone quietly sneeks up on me and yells &quot;Boo!&quot; I&#039;m more like ly scared than if someone is yelling &quot;Boo!&quot; every second from a mile away as they walk towards me.  See Below:  

Dr. Andres Soom participated in the University of Wisconsin’s comprehensive three-year study on the effects of snowmobile sound levels on deer and cottontail rabbits. His report entitled Emission, Propagation and Environmental Impact of Noise from Snowmobile Operations, concluded that “only minor reactions were noted in the movements of cottontail rabbits and white tailed deer to moderate and intensive snowmobiling activity.” He stated that it had not been possible to determine sound levels at which there is a clear reaction on the part of the deer “because snowmobiles must be so close to deer to generate the higher levels that other factors such as visible presence... are likely to be more important.”

The Wisconsin study also compared the reaction of deer to the presence of cross-country skiers. When cross-country skiers replaced snowmobiles on the test trail systems, the deer moved away from the trail more frequently. A three-year study, Response of White-Tailed Deer to Snowmobiles and Snowmobile Trails in Maine, conducted by wildlife scientists for the Maine Cooperative Wildlife Research Unit and the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, revealed that:
&quot;Deer consistently bedded near snowmobile trails and fed along them even when those trails were used for snowmobiling several times daily. In addition, fresh deer tracks were repeatedly observed on snowmobile trails shortly after machines had passed by, indicating that deer were not driven from the vicinity of these trails... The reaction of deer to a man walking differed markedly from their reaction to a man on a snowmobile... This decided tendency of deer to run with the approach of a human on foot, in contrast to their tendency to stay in sight when approached by a snowmobiler, suggests that the deer responded to the machine and not to the person riding it.&quot;

In a study entitled Snow Machine Use and Deer in Rob Brook, conducted by the Forest Wildlife Biologist of the White Mountain National Forest in New Hampshire, snowmobile operations and deer movement were monitored. A summary of the study indicated that deer travel patterns were not affected by periodically heavy snowmobile use. In addition, continued use of established snowmobile trails was recommended.

The University of Minnesota issued a study by Michael J. Dorrance entitled Effects of Snowmobiles on White Tailed Deer which found no meaningful difference in the deer’s home range during periods of snowmobile use and non-use.

Addressing the subject of snowmobile operations in Yellowstone National Park, Jack Anderson, a former Superintendent of Yellowstone commented:

&quot;We found that elk, bison, moose, even the fawns, wouldn’t move away unless a machine was stopped and a person started walking. As long as you stayed on the machine and the machine was running, they never paid any attention. If you stopped the machine, got off and started moving, that was a different story. The thing that seemed to be disturbing to them was a man walking on foot.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to re-iterate what Lou said above re: the effects on animals by snowmobiles and people on foot.  Granted, I took this from a snowmobile advocacy website  (<a href="http://www.snowmobile.org/facts_ece.asp)" rel="nofollow">http://www.snowmobile.org/facts_ece.asp)</a>, but it&#8217;s still university studies.  I know that if someone quietly sneeks up on me and yells &#8220;Boo!&#8221; I&#8217;m more like ly scared than if someone is yelling &#8220;Boo!&#8221; every second from a mile away as they walk towards me.  See Below:  </p>
<p>Dr. Andres Soom participated in the University of Wisconsin’s comprehensive three-year study on the effects of snowmobile sound levels on deer and cottontail rabbits. His report entitled Emission, Propagation and Environmental Impact of Noise from Snowmobile Operations, concluded that “only minor reactions were noted in the movements of cottontail rabbits and white tailed deer to moderate and intensive snowmobiling activity.” He stated that it had not been possible to determine sound levels at which there is a clear reaction on the part of the deer “because snowmobiles must be so close to deer to generate the higher levels that other factors such as visible presence&#8230; are likely to be more important.”</p>
<p>The Wisconsin study also compared the reaction of deer to the presence of cross-country skiers. When cross-country skiers replaced snowmobiles on the test trail systems, the deer moved away from the trail more frequently. A three-year study, Response of White-Tailed Deer to Snowmobiles and Snowmobile Trails in Maine, conducted by wildlife scientists for the Maine Cooperative Wildlife Research Unit and the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, revealed that:<br />
&#8220;Deer consistently bedded near snowmobile trails and fed along them even when those trails were used for snowmobiling several times daily. In addition, fresh deer tracks were repeatedly observed on snowmobile trails shortly after machines had passed by, indicating that deer were not driven from the vicinity of these trails&#8230; The reaction of deer to a man walking differed markedly from their reaction to a man on a snowmobile&#8230; This decided tendency of deer to run with the approach of a human on foot, in contrast to their tendency to stay in sight when approached by a snowmobiler, suggests that the deer responded to the machine and not to the person riding it.&#8221;</p>
<p>In a study entitled Snow Machine Use and Deer in Rob Brook, conducted by the Forest Wildlife Biologist of the White Mountain National Forest in New Hampshire, snowmobile operations and deer movement were monitored. A summary of the study indicated that deer travel patterns were not affected by periodically heavy snowmobile use. In addition, continued use of established snowmobile trails was recommended.</p>
<p>The University of Minnesota issued a study by Michael J. Dorrance entitled Effects of Snowmobiles on White Tailed Deer which found no meaningful difference in the deer’s home range during periods of snowmobile use and non-use.</p>
<p>Addressing the subject of snowmobile operations in Yellowstone National Park, Jack Anderson, a former Superintendent of Yellowstone commented:</p>
<p>&#8220;We found that elk, bison, moose, even the fawns, wouldn’t move away unless a machine was stopped and a person started walking. As long as you stayed on the machine and the machine was running, they never paid any attention. If you stopped the machine, got off and started moving, that was a different story. The thing that seemed to be disturbing to them was a man walking on foot.&#8221;</p>
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