Intuition Liners — Everything You Always Wanted to Know

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This post by WildSnow.com blogger  

It’s safe to say that Intuition revolutionized ski boot technology when they made the heat mold liner widely available. Here is the story.

Backcountry Skiing

Liners liners and more liners. They've got liners on the brain!

Intuition Sports Incorporated is a British Columbia incorporated company owned by Rob Watts. Its primary business is to make liners for ski boots and snowboard boots. The company was incorporated in 1992 by three partners working out of a garage.

Byron Gracie, Herbert Lang and Rob wanted to make boot liners that didn’t fall apart. Byron was a ski fanatic and a hobbyist who wanted performance ski liners. Pre-Intuition he spent quite a few years trying to make liners for himself. His first prototype liners were hand-stitched out of pigskin – a hand-crafted work of art! After one year, Byron wanted out of Intuition and returned to a life of ski-bumming. Herb and Ron disagreed on the method and necessity of forming the liners and after three years, Herb also wanted out, leaving Rob as sole owner.

Intuition looked around for liner material that could be sourced with a bit more consistency; experimenting with thermo-formable foam liners from various suppliers. Many boots and liners were trashed and foam found wanting, until Intuition ran into a little know New Zealand company called Ultralon. The first overlap one-piece Intuition liner was made in 1993 using off-the-shelf Ultralon foam. What later came to be known as Intuition foam was developed in 1995. The company subsequently applied for and was awarded a patent on the concept of an integral liner consisting entirely of sheetstock thermoplastic foam.

In the first few years of Intuition’s business all liners were made in Vancouver. As the company made greater quantities of liners, it was difficult to find the people to sew and make the liners and difficult to maintain quality. During its years as a Canadian manufacturing company, Intuition made between 20,000 to 30,000 liners a year and maintained a staff of about twenty people. As production volumes ramped up Rob had to make the tough decision to outsource production to China in order to maintain quality while keeping prices reasonable. Now the liners are made in China while prototype liners are still made in Vancouver.

Intuition now has three people in their modest offices in Vancouver but makes about 350,000 boot liners a year! Most of this production is for the OE (original equipment market) with the bulk of production (about 60%) targeted to the snowboard market. The ski boot market is also important to Intuition with most of that production going to alpine touring boots. With the introduction this year of more conventional tongue style liners, Intuition hopes to win business in aftermarket liners not just in alpine touring boots but also in conventional alpine liners.

Intuition also makes products for other markets utilizing their thermoformable foam; including, for example, wakeboard boots; medical orthotics, splints, etcetera.

Design Philosophy
Intuition liners were designed to improve on stock boot liners and to have the following features:

* Lighter
* Warmer
* Last longer due to better quality
* Better fit
* Tuneable

I’ve been using Intuition liners for the past year, replacing old boot liners from my Garmont MegaRides with Intuition Alpine liners. I can say that this is one of the cases where hype does meet reality. The Intuition liner really is that good and your feet will thank you for that. I’ve actually found them to be such a drastic improvement that I changed out boot liners from my alpine boots to the relatively stiffer Alpine Powerwraps model.

One key to Intuition’s success is its use of a special formulation of Ultralon foam. Ultralon is one of many brands of EVA (Ethylene-vinyl_acetate) thermoformable foam; a mature product used in many industrial applications. Intuition came up with a unique formulation of the Ultralon closed cell foam that was more resistant to heat-related shrinkage and pressure related “packing out” than other types of foam.

Intuition’s liners start their life as a cut-out of closed-cell foam. This cut-out is sewn and then heated up and molded with a “last” (ie. a plastic model of a foot). This process takes place in China and results in the standard overlap generically-shaped Intuition liner ready to be custom molded.

Molding/Cooking Intuitions
First, know that any pre-molded Intuition boot liner has been molded to a generic foot shape and a generic boot. People with generic feet can frequently use this liner without issue. But to experience the full glory of a custom-fit you should custom-mold your Intuition liners.

Backcountry Skiing

Baking the Intuition liners on blower oven, now the preferred method because the liner remains lasted to the boot interior, with less likelihood of becoming twisted or wrinkled.

Intuition has designed and sells a special oven with blowers which allow you to heat the liners while they are in your boots – an innovation which has made molding the extremely thermoformable Ultralon foam a much easier process. Intuition obviously recommends getting its liners cooked using the blower style liner and also recommends that liners be thermo-molded by either dealers or by Intuition itself.

Nevertheless, for various reasons people will want to try to cook their own liners. For them, I’d point to the old dependable do-it-yourself Cooking with Big Tim video. I will note the caveat that if you’re not careful it is all too easy to heat damage, wrinkle and improperly mold the liners using any DIY process.

Molding Theory and Details
Intuition foam consists of millions of tiny cells, or bubbles. These closed-cell bubbles are created by pouring measured amounts of mixed ingredients (Intuition has a specific unique formula of ingredients) into a two-piece mold. This mold is sealed and heated under tremendous pressure, slowly and evenly. It’s then allowed to cool to ambient temperature.

This process results in a very uniform cell structure and a very high percentage (70% – 80%) of cross-linkage between molecules in each cell wall. This cross-linkage between the cells restricts gases trapped in each of the tiny bubbles of the cells from migrating; gas-migration between cell walls would change the shape and characteristics of the foam. The cell membrane is also treated with a chemical “filler” to create a more homogeneous membrane/structure.

The end-result of this complex process is high quality “memory” and resistance to “packing out.” In lay terms, the foam has a relatively good ability to keep a specific shape when molded with heat. The foam also has relatively robust structural integrity or quality (due to the homogeneity of the cell membrane structure and its consequent strength) and can be re-molded several times without compromise.

Intuition Liner Offerings
Prior to the 2007-8 model year, Intuition was well-known for its overlap liner. New for this year, Intuition has introduced two models of tongue liners, i.e., liners with a tongue as opposed to liners that have overlapping wings. Photos of the liners on the Intuition website show why they are named as such.

Backcountry Skiing

Liners for plug boots.

The 2008-9 lineup features new entries to Intuitions lineup; the Luxury and Freeride tongue liner:

* Luxury Liner (tongue type liner with stiffer tongue)
* Freeride Liner (tongue type liner with softer tongue)
* Power Wrap (with 1mm of AEPE stiffer plastic foam in the cuff of the liner, this is the stiffest Intuition liner).
* Power Wrap Plug (a moderately stiff liner with thinner foam for people who wear boots that have a tight fit)
* Alpine (a moderately stiff liner for all around performance)
* Godiva (women-specific moderately stiff liner; extra padding in spots where women tend to have issues with liners)
* Universal (shorter and softer then the Alpine, this liner is for low-cuff boots)
* Denali (very short liner for climbing boots)

Backcountry Skiing

Cutaway of (from L to R) - thicker 12mm Alpine Powerwrap liner and thinner 9mm Plug liner.

Invariably the question will come up – what liners should I get? This question is better addressed in the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) at the end of this article. Having said that, bear this in mind.

1. Plug liners are intended to have a closer fit. Contrast the 12mm thick foam in the Alpine and Alpine Powerwrap liners with the 9mm foam used in the Plug liners. This allows for better fits in a more “race”-like boot as the Ultralon foam used in more traditional Intuitions may take up too much space as it expands when cooked.

2. Tongue liners are optimized for comfort and not necessarily as stiff as the stiffest overlap liners. Moreover, there are two varieties of tongued liners with tongues of varying stiffness. They are Intuition’s new direction for OE and aftermarket and are designed to be useable even without thermo-molding (although sure do fit well when molded!). Here’s some features of a tongue liner vs the overlap liner construction:

* Panelled construction.
* More evenly distributed cuff pressure.
* Easier to refine due to design and tuneability.
* Better energy transmission to ski edge due to better fit.
* More fitting options then even the overlaps.

Generally speaking, Intuition is recommending either the Luxury or Freeride tongue liner for alpine touring applications; the Alpine Powerwrap overlap liner for alpine boots and the Alpine overlap liners for alpine touring boots. It gets a bit confusing when deciding between the tongue liners and overlap liners. I would imagine that those people who don’t have ready access to a dealer or an Intuition oven to thermo-mold their liners or who are simply reluctant to play DIY over-roulette with a brand new pair of liners would be better served by getting a tongue liner.

Of course, individual preference and individual feet play an even larger role in liner selection and selecting the correct liner size. The boots in which the liners will be used, skier skill, skier size and weight, terrain skied, individual preference (i.e., loose fit vs tight fit) …. all these factors play a role in determining which liner will fit the bill.

Backcountry Skiing

New woman-specific Godiva liner has padding in places where women tended to experience shin and calf-bang.

OEM liners
I should throw in a few quick words about original equipment (OE) liners that Intuition produces. These are liners which Intuition makes in bulk quantities for various ski and snowboard boot companies. To take the example of one company, Scarpa has sourced its liners from Intuition for some time. Intuition’s liners have actually become a bit of a product differentiator for Scarpa and it seems both companies have benefited from that relationship; Intuition in increased sales and exposure and Scarpa in having high quality liners that many skiers regard as the best available.

As OE liners have such big runs, Intuition customizes OE liners to accommodate manufacturer specifications. Some of these customizations have crept into Intuitions’ standard product offerings. For example Scarpa liners have silicone grippy tread on the bottom of the liner and thinner foam on the footbed area to accommodate placement of footbeds.

There you go, any questions?

(Guest blogger Lee Lau is an avid skier and outdoorsman embarking on many adventures with his loving, and sometimes concerned wife, Sharon. He has over 15 years of experience skiing, ski-touring and dabbles in mountaineering. In the “off-season” he is occasionally found working in his day job as an intellectual property lawyer when he is not mountain biking. As a resident of Vancouver, British Columbia, Lee’s playground extends mainly to Western Canada, including South West B.C. and the Selkirks.)

Comments

196 Responses to “Intuition Liners — Everything You Always Wanted to Know”

  1. Mike Marolt January 29th, 2009 10:42 am

    Lou,

    I have to agree with you. The Intuition Luxery Liner is the best liner i have ever used. Super light, incredibly warm, and makes any boot ski better. I use them in my Technica Agent AT boots as well as my Atomic Race 140 on mountain boots.

    As they relate to my AT boots, the Luxery Liner specifically is a tongue type and lets the boot flex better for climbing, but has a stiff upper tonue for superior skiing when you buckle down. I am so stoked on this particular liner you can’t imagine. They are thick and really smooth out vibrations on hard pack. They also do not pack out and last like you can’t imagine. I have a well over a hudred days in my AT alone for the past couple years. One of the most important pieces of gear i have; no blisters or frozen toes and ski great!

    M

  2. Brady January 29th, 2009 11:04 am

    I have an extremely narrow, flat, and low volume foot… and leg. I’ve struggled finding boots that fit. I’m not a backcountry skiier, although I’d like to be, but an expert alpine skier, who generally skis steep terrain at Snowbird, Utah. Do intuition liners generally work for folks with very narrow/low volume feet and legs? Do they generally work as aftermarket liners in all boots?

    Thanks

  3. Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 11:27 am

    Brady,

    Generally speaking Intuition liners do work as aftermarket on all boots. Having said that, I’ve heard anecdotally that they can have a tough time being fitted in some boots with incredibly narrow heelcups.

    For you, I would think that the “Plug” liners would work.

    Have a look at the Intuition site at http://www.intuitionliners.com/ – contact either them directly or your local Intuition dealer. The best answer is for a bootfitter to see your feet in your boots who can hopefully assess what liners will work with your feet or what boot or liner work needs to be done..

  4. Dongshow January 29th, 2009 11:39 am

    Do the luxury liners lace up?

  5. Mike Marolt January 29th, 2009 11:48 am

    Dong Show, they do not, but we have simply punched holes; the material is really thick and works great. I have a feeling the laces are in the works for them.

    Brady, the luxery liner is thick enough to where it will mold to any boot very easily. over the years, i have molded to my two pair of boots today, but also Lowa and Scarpa in years past. No problem at all. I litterally have no knocks on these liners.

    FWIW, Mike

  6. Jordan January 29th, 2009 12:01 pm

    Lee,

    Great post. I also live in B.C. and have Garmont Mega-Rides.

    My question: do you find the Intuition liners warmer than the ones that came with the Mega-Rides? During the cold snap in December, we had to spend an emergency night out in a snowcave and I got bad frostbite on my toes from the time spent fiddling around in my boots. Many people have told me that if I had had Intuition liners, my toes would have survived better.

    Of course, living on the Coast the vast majority of time my feet are way TOO warm, so I can’t really win….

    Thanks.

  7. Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 1:58 pm

    Jordan,

    The Intuitions are quite a bit warmer then MegaRide Palau liners. They also take up more space and stiffen up the boot quite a bit. The Intuitions won’t hurt the tourability of the MegaRides.

    One thing I’ll do for emergencies or if I’m overnighting FYI is to take some heat packs with me in a kit bag. They’re small and if you stick them in boots or gloves they’ll save a lot of pain.

  8. dan January 29th, 2009 2:13 pm

    one of my intuition heels is packing out considerably — and i know enough about boot fitting to know that the only “remedy” offered by bootfitters is to but that curved sticky foam around the ankle — I don’t think this is an ideal fix though (cause it mostly justs packs in the ankle) and I may experiment with layering ultra thin sticky material on the outside of the heel itself – I can’t afford new liners currently – so that is not an opiton.

  9. Lou January 29th, 2009 3:05 pm

    Dan, I’ve got skinny heels and on some of my boots over the years I’ve had to mold the liner, then add a layer of foam on the outside of the heels. Makes it so you can’t rebake the liners, but does the trick.

  10. Justin January 29th, 2009 3:27 pm

    The picture with the liners cut so you can see the foam inside says it’s a luxury liner. Aren’t those actually Power Wraps and Plugs?

  11. Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 3:49 pm

    Justin,

    Good catch. You’re right. I think some captions got swapped around. It should be captioned

    Cutaway of (from L to R) – thicker 12mm Alpine Powerwrap liner and thinner 9mm Plug liner

  12. Lou January 29th, 2009 4:03 pm

    Probably my fault. Fixed.

  13. Chris Weber January 29th, 2009 7:30 pm

    Lou-
    Just got a pair of zeus. Considering intuition liner to replace the stock liner. I come from a tele T1 boot with overwrap, so the tongue style seems less supportive (just guessing)… would either the overwrap or tongue style intuition work well in the zeus? Is the intuition liner, in general, that much better than the stock zeus liner?
    Thanks,
    Chris

  14. Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 7:53 pm

    Chris,

    I tested a ZZeus 27.5. The stock Dynafit liner pinched my foot and was also quite a bit heavier then an Intuition liner. I put a 27.0 Intuition Alpine liner custom-molded to my feet in a Garmont Megaride shell in the ZZeus and the boot was now comfortable.

    The Intuition tongue liner will also work with the ZZeus.

    I can’t say if the Intuition liner is “better” then the stock ZZeus liner. It’s certainly lighter but IMO the better liner is the one that fits better.

    Finally, the tongue liner is generally less stiffer then the overlap liner.

  15. Sylvia January 30th, 2009 12:06 am

    Brady,

    Intuition offers different volume liners (ie thicker or thinner foam) on at least some of their liners (I have the luxury – don’t know about others). You can thus get a higher volume liner to take up the extra space for your low-volume feet.

    Sylvia

  16. Dostie January 30th, 2009 7:44 am

    Lee Lau,

    Nice report. Thanks for all the details. Must say I’m impressed with the current generation of Intuition liners from Scarpa.

  17. KDog January 30th, 2009 8:36 am

    I just ordered some Intuitions for my Megarides and the boot fitter recommended the Power wraps. He asked if I was an aggressive skier and I said moderately but I did not want to sacrifice tourability. I’m going in tomorrow to have them fit and now I am wondering if I should have ordered the Luxury or the Alpine. Any suggestions?

    Kevin

  18. Lou January 30th, 2009 8:59 am

    I toured for years in the wraps and never had a problem. Much of how they work while touring is how the boot is buckled, as you have to rig things in such a way as to allow the wrap to let go a bit, otherwise it does feel restricting compared to a tongue liner.

  19. Lee Lau January 30th, 2009 11:34 am

    Kdog how much do you weigh?

    I’ve got the soft stock touring tongue for the MegaRide and I’ve also used the black Scarpa stiff tongue in the MegaRide. At a 160lbs, the Alpine liner and the black touring tongue is plenty for me but then I prefer softer boots.

    I’ve toured in the Power Wraps. Like Lou, I found the Power Wraps a bit restricting even when I do what’s customary for me and slacken off all my buckles for touring.

    I’ve also toured in the Luxury liners (but in Scarpa Spirit 3s). I’d say they’re comparable to the Alpine liners in terms of stiffening up the boot and just as comfortable for me. The Luxury/tongue liners vs the Alpine/overlap liner choice is really a matter of fit. I’m fortunate in that my foot fits into a lot of boots without much problem so the issue of fit isn’t a big consideration for me.

    What I’m trying to say is that the Powerwrap might be OK for you; if you’re the kind of person who is bigger then me, or prefers stiffer boots; or tours with buckles unlatched. I know this is wishy-washy and hope it helps

  20. Lee Lau January 30th, 2009 11:37 am

    @ Sylvia and @ Brady.

    Sylvia, your response was actually good and caused me to take a step back. When Brady said he was going to use the liner in an alpine boot, I immediately thought he would want a tight fit and that he might already be in a plug -type boot; therefore my suggestion of a plug liner.

    But your advice is probably correct because Brady mentioned he had a small volume foot. Assuming Brady has the correct shell size (Brady is that assumption correct?) then the thicker (12mm foam as opposed to 9mm foam) of the Alpine liners vs the Plug liners would help you take up more space in the boot to accomodate your low-volume foot. It’s a round-about way of agreeing with Sylvia.

  21. John Gloor January 30th, 2009 12:04 pm

    I’ve never had an overwrap liner and have some questions about them. Once the shell of a boot is buckled, is there really any advantage to a wrap liner or a well made BOA system like BD uses in their AT boots? I can see having a snug liner when unbuckled and skinning as nice, but it seems the buckled plastic shell would clamp down snug enough to offset any support wraps or laces give. I’ve always pulled the laces from AT liners since they seem like a hassle to me, and the wrap seems like it might be hard to get into. My question is, is there a skiing advantage to a wrapped or laced liner? Most alpine race liners are injected foam/silicone tongue style and are the pinnacle of performance, but are cold and heavy

  22. Lou January 30th, 2009 1:48 pm

    John, the wrap isn’t any different to get into as it opens up wide. I think it’s more a personal preference thing. If you have trouble with the top of your feet using tongue liners, it’s worth trying a wrap. Another advantage of Wraps is they tend to fill up more volume in the cuff of the boot, which is nice for folks with skinny legs, that’s one reason I like them. They’re also a bit warmer in my opinion because they trap more air. But they don’t breath as well when your feet are hot. I do notice the added freedom of movement with tongue liners while on the uptrack.

  23. KDog January 31st, 2009 9:00 am

    Lee, I’m 5′ 11″ 195, so I’m no lightweight and I do tour with my buckles loose. That being said I still don’t want to feel like I’m wearing casts while climbing. I go in today to get fit so we’ll see. I have been cranking down the upper buckles when skiing down lately. I’ve been liking the added control. I came from Tele and I think it has taken a few years to get used to being really strapped in to a boot. Floppy, loose feeling boots never bothered me before.
    Kevin

  24. Rob Staudinger January 31st, 2009 9:17 am

    I’ve never used wrap liners, so any danger they cause more friction on the shins? Seems I’m a bit sensitive in the lower shin area, had problems once or twice when using older, less tight socks. Considering to get the ZZeus (maybe only for next season though), not sure I’ll be able to seriously demo them (like, 3000ft tour). Could this be a problems?

  25. Jeremy Allyn January 31st, 2009 9:54 am

    Thanks guys! I got some Scarpa Skookums this season to replace older Megarides – I’m using the stock Intuition liner. A little bit of back story….

    Around 17 months ago I had reconstructive surgery on both feet after an accident. My right foot, in particular, changed shape and length, and suffers from some nerve damage and is more susceptible to cold injury. I needed new boots – longer, wider, and warm.

    All in all I’m super psyched about the ski and touring performance of the Scarpas, but am really struggling with VERY sweaty feet. This is making my other problems that much more of a challenge, and is the case regardless of weather or conditions.

    I’ve had a fair amount of experience with Intuitions over the years (from high altitude AK climbing, to very cold temps skiing, to hot mountain ski missions in the Cascades) and think moisture management has always been a serious issue – I don’t consider myself alone in this.

    I have enough days on my skis this season to determine this is not necessarily the result of funkiness in my right foot – my left one is pretty much back to normal and the wetness is the same side to side.

    I’ve tried all the normal routes thus far – varying sock type and thickness, changing socks mid day, adjusting buckles, airing out at short breaks, and the flip-side – heat packs, etc.

    It is interesting to note that I was on Rainer a few weeks ago (in 50 degree temps no less!) wearing a pair of LaSportiva Spantiks (high altitude climbing boot) and didn’t get the slightest bit of wetness. Apples and oranges, I know.

    Perhaps you can shed some light on this aspect of Intuitions? Seems like a different liner is in order. Any thoughts? Cheers.

  26. Michael January 31st, 2009 5:31 pm

    Lee,

    Thanks for the great review, lots of good information here …

    Any idea if we can buy the Scarpa specific liner from intuition? (The one that goes into the Scarpa Spirit 4?

    Thanks.

  27. Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 7:58 pm

    Kdog – I think you’ll probably be fine with the Powerwraps given that you don’t tour with the buckles tight. You’re definitely bigger then me.

  28. Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 8:03 pm

    I’ve never used wrap liners, so any danger they cause more friction on the shins? Seems I’m a bit sensitive in the lower shin area, had problems once or twice when using older, less tight socks. Considering to get the ZZeus (maybe only for next season though), not sure I’ll be able to seriously demo them (like, 3000ft tour). Could this be a problems?

    @Rob

    The wraps probably won’t cause trouble skiing as long as they fit properly (to state the obvious) – after all then the boots will be buckled and you shouldn’t get shin bang. They might cause more trouble with the shins when you’re touring or hiking long long distances.

    I did have some issues with shins when I retreated off the alpine due to weather and spent two days bushwhacking out blowdown, swamp, devils club, slide alder and then logging road. in my wrap liners. It’s hard to imagine that any liner wouldn’t have trashed my feet in that situation but I know my shins did get especially sore and abraded by way of this somewhat arkward situation

  29. Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 8:06 pm

    @ Jeremy. There’s no question that’s one downside of the liner. It is warmer then other liners. The problem is that all Intuitions are all manufactured out of the same thermomoldable foam so all the liners have the same similar characteristics of being warm. Good most times but, like you found, not ideal for people with sweaty feet in warm conditions.

    Intuition once suggested that you could try perforating the liners. I just don’t see how well this would work since your liner is encased in a non-permeable boot. The liner just doesn’t transpire much moisture or heat.

    Sorry – I know that doesn’t help a lot.

  30. Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 8:08 pm

    @ Michael – I know Intuition is working on a liner with the specific characteristics of the Scarpa OE liner ie the Silicon Sole (grippy tread wear pattern) and the thinner 9mm foam foot section (can be thermomolded with a footbed) – but you can’t currently buy such a liner.

    I’ll check whether they have prototypes out right now

  31. KDog January 31st, 2009 8:59 pm

    Thanks for all the info Lee. I just got back from the boot fitter and the new Powerwraps feel great. I’m going touring tomorrow to the top of Ben Lomond peak so they will get a full test with steep uptrack and bootpacking as well.
    Point of interest to this discussion. The bootfitter said he did not like to use the blowers to heat the liners in the shell. He said that they don’t heat the interior of the liners evenly and won’t heat the exterior at all. He said this does not allow the exterior to conform to the boot shell properly, leaving voids that the liner eventually compresses to fill. People may think their liners are packing out when they are just forming to the voids.
    He heated the liners in a oven and placed a thin stocking like thing over them to keep them from buckling or wrinkling. He also used a large shoehorn in the back of the shell and lots of silcone spray. They slipped in easily and formed perfectly. My wife was having some Alpine wraps molded for her Tele boots and they even had a perfect bellows mold in the tops. I’ve never seen that with a Palau liner.
    All in all the best liner bake off experience I’ve ever had. Hope they ski as good as they feel!
    Kevin

  32. Justin January 31st, 2009 10:13 pm

    you can buy the Scarpa/Intuition liners on telemark-pyrenees.com

  33. Sean February 1st, 2009 10:04 am

    Nice write-up, Lee — as usual. Thanks for the thoroughness.

  34. Lou February 1st, 2009 10:59 am

    About blower heaters for liner molding. I was about ready to buy one for the WildSnow shop, but they’re expensive and indeed don’t heat the liner up as much as I’d like to see. So I’ve gone back to molding some liners with my convection oven. With care and skill, doing so still seems to work fine.

  35. Magnus February 2nd, 2009 10:45 pm

    Scarpa Intuition Liners can be bought at telemark pyrenees
    http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=1_48_150&products_id=3892&osCsid=59e69cfa000dc5b1bd30cfd870327978
    they carry three models

  36. Lee Lau February 3rd, 2009 2:41 pm

    Thanks Magnus and Justin – i learned something new there

  37. John Schulte February 3rd, 2009 5:38 pm

    I have Head Raptor 120s so I am thinking of purchasing one of the intuitions for Alpine use. The fit is fairly tight as the last is about 98 mm. The instep is low as well. To get them on and off I push down/out hard on the tongue to spread the lower shell. Would the overlap even work for me? Perhaps the model with the tongue would be better, but I’m concerned the tongue would soften up the flex. I guess I’m wondering if the intuition liners would be an upgrade and if so which one.

    John

  38. Mike Traslin February 3rd, 2009 10:14 pm

    Love the intuition liner at one point I have used the same wrap around liner for four different boots!
    I have a low volume foot so I have been using a size ten liner in my size nine shell!
    While tail guiding in the monashee’s I had one client who was able to get 12 years or more out of his classic raichle bubble boots![Thanks to the intuition liner]He said he would have had to quit otherwise!

  39. Derf February 5th, 2009 1:43 am

    My toes freeze more and more.
    I noted that the structure of the Ultralon foam have changed for some new models.
    There are fewer of EVA used (which was the basis for a good thermoforming) and more Pe foam with less density and maintenance ( but lower in weight).
    Thermoforming time in my convection oven is less, liner is cook much faster now . Care.
    Same thing for toe box, that it seems to me that Intuition is using Neoprene and no Eva.
    Do we must expected a restriction of raw material costs at the expense of the qualities of the product?

  40. Lee Lau February 6th, 2009 8:50 pm

    @ John Schulte. You’re a good candidate for either the Alpine Powerwrap or the Plug liner (if your last and boot is a tight fit). It’ll keep the stiff characteristics of the Head boots. I suspect the tongue liner would soften up the flex too much

  41. Lee Lau February 6th, 2009 8:52 pm

    Derf,

    I can’t speak to future manufacturing but the raw material cost of the Ultralon foam isn’t a huge component of their costs. I doubt that’s a material contributor.

    For what its worth, the Alpine overlap liner is probably their warmest liner – it certainly has the thickest foam.

  42. Justin February 7th, 2009 8:48 pm

    So it looks like this years Powerwraps have a different style power wrap material, stitched on instead of glued on this year. They also seem significantly softer than last years, because of the different material. Anyone used both that can comment on any difference in stiffness?

  43. chris February 20th, 2009 5:17 pm

    Hi,

    I recently got some new alpine boots, lange wc 120. They are fairly stiff (and cold) and don’t think I want to stiffen them more. I would like to get a custom liner but not sure which one makes sense. I have a narrow foot and skinny leg/calf, the lange is also a low volume/narrow shell. I use to compete in moguls and still ski them a lot so the liners take a beating.

    chris

  44. Lee Lau February 20th, 2009 5:47 pm

    Hey Chris,

    I had Langes. I’m one of the lucky ex-Lange wearers who still have their toenails. You have my sympathies.

    Get the Plug liners. Ordinarily I’d say get the Alpine liners as they’re warmer (thicker foam) but Langes are shell-sized fit so small that there probably won’t be enough space.

    Also my Langes leaked snow in the front of the boots. Don’t know if yours do but the solution was duct-tape on the front of the boots over the overlap. Not pretty but it worked

  45. Jeremy February 26th, 2009 5:08 pm

    I’ve been using stock liners on some Salamon alpine boots for the past 3 seasons. The stock liners are definetely packed out and need to be replaced, but I was wondering if gettin some intuition liners would save me from having to buy new boots. I’ve had the shells checked out and they seem to be still in decent shape. I’m hoping they would feel like new boots with some intuition liners put in them. Right now I’m kinda scaring myself skiing with loose sloppy boots.

  46. Lou February 26th, 2009 5:59 pm

    Yeah, unless the shell cuff rivets have a bunch of play or the shell is cracked, no reason it shouldn’t perform like new with a new liner. Go for it.

  47. John Schulte March 1st, 2009 3:17 pm

    Does anyone know of any model changes for next year? I would love to see a model with a stiffer tongue and less foam in the sole to better accommodate a custom footbed.

  48. diver7 March 7th, 2009 2:42 pm

    Big calves? Any guesses as to which Intuition would be best suited for a guy with 18″ calves? Even if the boot fitter can cut my shell liner down or flare it, my calves are still going to be >12″ around. Will an overlap style liner mold to huge calves or should I stick to the new tongued models? I’m still looking for a dealer that has both in stock so that I could try both styles on. Not sure what I need.

    For the post above me, it sounds like Intuition is coming out with a tongued liner (Luxury liner) that has a very thin sole for using footbeds.

  49. Lou March 7th, 2009 4:35 pm

    Diver, the upper part of a thermo liner is usually quite moldable, but if you really want it to flex out you probably should use the oven bake rather than the heat tubes, at least in my experience. The wrap liner might work better, as it has quite a bit of adjustment range in terms of how far it wraps.

  50. Denise June 15th, 2009 9:28 am

    Jeremy Allyn
    It is several months since your comments about finding your feet too hot and sweating in the intuition liners..you’re probably into summer sports right now.
    One thing you might want to consider is botox injections for your feet as that will totally stop any excess sweating. Not cheap but it will work.

  51. Lou June 15th, 2009 11:58 am

    Denise, thanks! How does one go about getting that, just ask a GP or does it need to be done by a specialist?

  52. Jimbo October 4th, 2009 7:29 am

    Oh no!
    Just when I’ve decided to get Luxury liners, they come out with TOURING Luxury Liners. They have a lacing system and different cuff/tongue plastic…
    Any info out there? Thanks in advance….

  53. Cynthia November 1st, 2009 11:41 am

    I have Intuition liners that are about four seasons old (maybe 100+ days). There are no abrasions or wear on them, but they are no longer fitting well. Too tight in the toes, heels are now blistering. They were perfect for three seasons. Are they worn out or can they be refitted?

  54. Lou November 1st, 2009 11:56 am

    You should be able to re-mold those. Sounds like your feet changed. Happens to the best of us (grin).

  55. Gerard November 8th, 2009 10:03 pm

    I have a pair of 9 Scarpa F1′s that came with Scarpa tongue liners. I’m now getting pressure/bruising on the top/front of my foot/ankle where the edge of the tongue ends up. I’m thinking of trying intuition wrap liners to spread the pressure out. A complicating factor is that I’m between sizes; the next size up felt huge, so I went with the smaller size and molded them with aggressive padding on the front of my toes to get the length.

    Would wrap liners provide better padding for the front of my ankle? Which model/size would you recommend? (I would be happy with a bit more liner projecting above the shell to reduce the pressure around the calf when buckled up tight.

    Thanks,

    Gerard

  56. matt November 18th, 2009 11:35 am

    I recently pulled a pair of lightly used Raichle Fexion Comps out of my closet and kinda wanted to put some intuition liners in them. With the Raichle (now Full Tilt) height should I go with Full Tilts liner (made by Intuition) or can I just buy an intuition off the rack? Thanks, Matt

  57. Lou November 18th, 2009 2:53 pm

    The Flexon shell is quite high, I’d think for it to work correctly you’d need the Full Tilt liner.

  58. Lou November 18th, 2009 2:55 pm

    Gerard, yes, a wrap liner may provide quite a bit more smoothness and padding in the front. The Scarpa/Intuition Universal is a good bet.

  59. Scott Dresser November 28th, 2009 7:29 pm

    Lou:

    I am wondering what the exact difference is between the two Scarpa sizes 26.5 and 27. I know the shell is the same and all Scarpa says is that the liners are “lasted” for the half sizes. My bigger foot is a 10, which would lead me towards the 27 size. But is it a different footbed only, or is the Intuition liner actually made to a different size than the 26.5? At this price, I’d need to know . . .

    Thanks.

  60. Lou November 28th, 2009 7:49 pm

    Scott, we do strive to beat Scarpa customer service at their own game, but that one stumps me. Sorry about that.

  61. Gerard November 28th, 2009 8:09 pm

    When I bought my F1′s a few years ago the Scarpa dealer told me that the liners for the smaller size within the same shell size were prebaked slightly to cause them to expand and make the fit a bit tighter in the store. Of course, as soon as you mold them that difference is lost. So it doesn’t matter which one you get. In fact, they told me that they were considering ordering the boots in full sizes only.

    This information is a few years old now so maybe they have changed how they do things and actually mold the liner on a different size foot last. or maybe not. YMMV

    Gerard

  62. Lou November 28th, 2009 8:53 pm

    It matters more if the liner is a “stroble” liner, meaning the sole area is shaped and stitched to the upper part of the liner. I’m not near my Skookum boots at the moment, but I recall those liners are indeed stroble, as are the Intuition Universals I’m playing around with, as well as the Dynafits.

  63. tony January 12th, 2010 6:32 pm

    I am trying to get an intuition that will fit my Technica Diablo. Here is the problem. The stock liner tongue is rigid, the shell is low in the tongue area. I tried the alpine intuition but it does not give enough support in the toungue area and allows to much forward lean when you need to drive the boot/tongue. I need rigidity in the tongue area and I am not sure there is a liner right for it. I have a moderately high instep and arch and tend to have a plenty of natural forward lean and possibly overdrive the boot when my technique is less than stellar.

  64. Frank K January 12th, 2010 8:32 pm

    Tony, have you checked out zipfits for your Technicas? While I love Intuitions for my AT boots, I prefer zipfits for my technicas.. I’ve done a couple of pairs over the years, and I’ll probably get another pair this spring, since my stock liners are once again on their last legs

  65. Daniel January 19th, 2010 9:17 am

    As a fresh follow up to an older post, has anyone tried the new Pro Tour Intuition liners? Any thoughts?

  66. Chad January 20th, 2010 11:17 am

    I have a pair of Adrenalins and looking to replace the liners. It looks like the Luxury Liner is my best bet. I use my boots for riding lifts and touring in the backcountry. The original g-fit liners worked well for me without molding but I can’t find a replacement. The g-fit is a 28.5 so I am assuming that I would go with a 28 Intuition. Any suggestions?

  67. Stephen January 24th, 2010 3:17 pm

    My Intuition liners are beginning to delaminate. Can the fabric of the Intuition Liner be reattached to the foam? Are there other repair options?

  68. KDog January 24th, 2010 4:01 pm

    I second Daniel’s post.

    I too would like some beta on the Intuition Pro Tour. My Garmont/Palau’s have packed out :angry: and I want a lace up.

    Lou? Anyone? Bueller?

  69. Lou January 24th, 2010 4:59 pm

    KDog, the liners are at WildSnow HQ, so we’ll get the reviews going soon. I’m sure they’re a good option, don’t see why they wouldn’t be…

  70. Erica February 3rd, 2010 6:13 pm

    I love my intuition liners but they are 5 years old and have worn holes on both inside heals to the point where I get blisters everytime I go skinning. Can you recommend one of the new intuition liners? I have Garmont Ener-G fit boots and was thinking about the New Pro Liner or the Godiva. Any advice would be greatly appreciated for happy touring ventures :)

  71. Mark February 8th, 2010 10:13 pm

    I have Intuition liners in two pairs of AT boots and one pair of plastic climbing boots. One pair was bought used with a single mold on them and one pair was of the infamous $20 Morrows. The last came stock with Scarpa Tornado. All work great, and I cooked all of them in my home oven. I hope the DIY continues to be possible…i.e. no fancy materials or designs are added that require a blower.

  72. Jamie February 15th, 2010 6:43 am

    I have a pair of Mega-Rides (womens version) which are in their 3rd season. I’ve been out touring around 20 days so far this year, and with each outing I’m noticing more and more play in around my right ankle to the extent that I’m struggling to keep the ski pointing in the right direction some times! Disregarding what is probably partially down to lack of technique, I’m thinking that the liners might be past it. Is it worth trying to remould the originals to regain some of the support in the area, or should I look into replacing them with intuitions? If the intuition route, does anyone know if the new touring liners are compatible with the slightly shorter cuff of the women’s mega rides?

    Thanks for any help!

  73. Lou February 15th, 2010 12:20 pm

    Jamie, I’d try a remold first. Can’t hurt. as or the Intuition liners, if they’re taller than your boot shell cuff and still comfortable, then it’s a non-issue. But if they bother your calf because the back is too tall, then yeah, something to consider. You can figure that out before they’re molded by doing a fitting.

  74. Mike February 26th, 2010 8:17 pm

    I like you have the Garmont Mega Ride with the G-fit 2 liners. Unlike you, I have severe shin pain. I have lost all the hair off my shins and now have small blisters in a line going up my shins. I have had a extra piece of plastic attached to the outer shell tongue to distibute pressure, and a velcro foam shin pad (called The Eliminator) attached to the inside of the liner tongue to lessen the pain. I also wear Smart Wool socks with extra padding on the shins. However, after two hours of touring or skiing my shins are bright red. Beyond two hours is bruising and blistering. The boots are a good fit, but the liners just don’t protect my shins. Which Intuition liner has the most padding or distribution of pressure in the tongue? My feet are very low volume with narrow heels. I will be visiting Salt Lake City in twelve days. Some stores sell Intuition liners in Salt Lake. I would like to narrow down which liner is best for “shin bang” in the Mega Ride boot before I walk into these stores. I think I’m looking for a liner with a stiff tongue (distribute pressure) and lots of padding. What do you think?

    I’m a desprite man, please help.
    Mike

  75. Will March 30th, 2010 1:32 pm

    Which Intuition liner would work best with my Dynafit TF-X size 27?

    Thanks
    Will

  76. joedabaker June 6th, 2010 3:49 pm

    Thanks for the lowdown Lee on these liners.
    I have been using these liners for years, I must have gone through at least 15 pairs of these liners from day one.
    I used an older pair of powerwraps in my mega rides. Like mentioned they take up a lot of volume in the boot. I have found that the thicker foam on the cuff, especially the shin area, tends to limit my forward mobility. The effect of this tends make my shin sore and I can’t get over my boot while in stride. It feels more upright. I have tried molding it to limit the thickness of the foam in front of my shin, but the material is too much to compensate.
    At any rate, I have worn out a couple liners in my Megas. I have used the Scarpa plus high fit liners. They ski to soft, but are comfortable could be a combo that I’m 6’4 ski aggressively on the front of the ski and weigh about 240# with all the gear including skis. Unfortunately on almost all Intuition liners material on the heels tend to pull away from the foam liner creating a bunch of loose material that ends up causing blisters when my heel rubs on the uneven surface.
    I was thinking of switching to the plug, since there is less foam on the cuff and the boot is a pretty tight fit on the sides.
    When I had the powerwraps in the boot I had much more control compared to the Scarpa Plus liners. But the Powerwraps were just to tight.
    I’m in the market for new liners again looks like the Plug may fill the gap I’m looking for and may increase ski control without compromising comfort.
    I guess I wonder if there is enough volume in the forefoot and toe box?
    I’m not big on lace up or tongue liner designs for touring too many pinch or friction possibilities.
    It would be nice if they developed an overlap tour liner that reduces the volume of high density foam in the front of the cuff, say 5mm on the shin and 12 on the Achilles with a performance foam body. That way you can ride the tail of the ski with support when things get squirrelly, and it won’t depreciate downhill performance and make walking easier.

  77. Gerard June 6th, 2010 9:41 pm

    I ended up buying a set of ProTour liner to put into my Scarpa F1′s. I followed the supplied instructions for molding using rice in the microwase and I carried the old liners in my pack the first couple of days touring in Rogers Pass but I never needed to pull the plug on them. No rubbing or pressure spots. The heal hold on these is just incredible. And they require less lower buckle tension to provide a snug fit.

    I’ve tried both the regular and the stiff tongue. Both make the boot ski bigger than the stock Scarpa intuition liner. The stiff tongue does push down a bit too much on the tops of the toes (probably where the velcro attachment is located); this is likely due to the bellows on the F1 and wouldn’t be an issue in a rigid-soled boot.

    The cord-lock on the laces is useless but doesn’t seem to be necessary. The lower boot holds the foot snugly enough that having the upper part loose isn’t an issue.

    Highly recommended for serious AT or Telemark tourers.

    Gerard

  78. daniel July 8th, 2010 8:54 pm

    i’ve skiied intuition liners for 3 years now, they fit great, and are light, but skiing in zzero stock liners today — i am surprised by how much more comfortable the stock french liners are than intuitions, which ive used in both those and spirit 4s. BIG differance.

  79. Lou July 8th, 2010 9:16 pm

    Daniel, the Palau liners Dynafit uses are indeed quite a bit different than Intuitions. Let’s remember that the key with finding comfort in boots is to know that different feet fit different brands and models. Thus, the Palau might be more comfortable to you, while the Intuition might be better for someone else. More, how the liner is molded, what kind of socks, what kind of footbed — all that stuff can make one liner feel better than another.

    In my own experience I do like the Palau liners other than that the inside skin tends to wear faster than Intuition. In terms of comfort, they both are of equal comfort for me once I mold them correctly.

  80. Bradskis August 20th, 2010 4:52 pm

    Great article. I’m currently in the market for some custom liners/boots (I think). What is the biggest difference between going with something like an Intuition liner and Zipfit or going to Surefoot? Are there pros, cons? If so what are they. I’ve been researching, but am still a bit confused on the different types of molding processes (thermal vs foam) and what the main differeces are?

    Thanks for you help!

  81. Bradskis August 20th, 2010 4:53 pm

    …..Should mention also… this would be for alpine skiing. Advanced to expert skier (20 days a year)

  82. Lou August 20th, 2010 5:01 pm

    Hi Brad, if you just make sure the liner is of the heat molded foam variety, and quite light, they’ll generally be pretty good. We feel that Intuition makes the best and has the best variety for different skiers. Surefoot can mold the liners for you, I believe.

    Anyone else care to chime in? Lee?

  83. Eddy October 1st, 2010 2:56 pm

    First off, great blog on the intuitions. I have a pair of Rossignol b-squad pro 130 boots that have done me well with a stock liner /custom foot bed set-up. The liners are shot though and have been thinking about up grading to intuition liners. I am fitting these boots at a half size (25.5) and was wondering whether I should go for the 25 or 26 mondo sized liner? The stock liner seemed to be rather thin around my foot, would a powerwrap or a powerwrap plug seem better made for a boot like this? Any foreseen problems with an intuition fitting too short in the tallish sized cuff of these shells?

  84. Lou October 1st, 2010 6:32 pm

    Eddy, I think those questions would be best answered by contacting Intuition.

    http://www.intuitionliners.com/

    Lou

  85. David Yabsley October 23rd, 2010 6:59 pm

    Hi, I wish to purchase Intuition Liners for my new Dynafit Titan TF-X’s. My shoe size is U.S. 9 somewhere between 2E and 4E. My tennis shoes are 4E. Which liner should I choose. A low volume liner, medium or high volume liner???
    Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

  86. Lou October 23rd, 2010 7:18 pm

    David, I’d go for a medium volume liner if I were you. You might want to work with a boot fitter….

  87. David Yabsley October 23rd, 2010 7:46 pm

    Hi Lou, I live in Cairns, North Queensland, Australia. No ski shops here! I ski in Niseko and Furano in Hokkaido Japan for ten consecutive weeks each year. I think I can mould the inners myself, in the boots with a really strong hair dryer, but last season I skied with Scapa F3 Intuition boots. I purchased them on the internet from France and after much discussion they still sent me boots with narrow liners. The boot fitters in Niseko blew out the boots a little but I spent the last three weeks in agony. My new Dynafits look perfect for me but I want to avoid a repeat of the last few years and go for the best fit liners I can. 4E is a very wide fitting. Do you think the medium will do the job???
    Thanks David

  88. Lou October 24th, 2010 7:42 am

    David, since a properly heated liner will mold down to almost no thickness if necessary, I’d say a medium thickness liner would be the way to go, since you’ll still want it to fill places where your feet are not wide… It sounds more like your issues could be caused by how you are fitting and molding, rather than exactly what liners you are using. But I’m just guessing. Nothing wrong with DIY boot fitting and liner molding, but you do have to commit to learning the craft if you want good results. That’s been my experience, anyway.

    Also, thinking back, almost every skier I know who has wide feet ends up having their boot shells blown out in key locations. If you’re not doing that, you may find that just fitting by messing with the liner will never be perfect.

  89. David Yabsley October 24th, 2010 12:11 pm

    Lou, Thanks for your advice. Really appreciated. David

  90. Lee Lau October 25th, 2010 12:03 am

    Eddy – did you get an answer to your question from Intuition? If not I’ll try to answer. Sorry I let my subscription to this thread get deleted for some reason

  91. pdxted November 1st, 2010 9:51 am

    My stock nordica liners are packed out and i went in the other day to talk to the fitter at my local shop. He’s recommending the power wrap with custom footbeds. He said the moldable footbed isn’t absolutely necessary, but he leans strongly in that direction. Do any of you have any thoughts on that? I don’t mind going that direction if the whole package is that much better, but they want $120 for it, which is real money to me. My superfeet worked fine.

    The other question i had was with his power wrap recommendation. From the comments here, it sounds like they’re pretty stiff. I like to work my boots, and generally set it for max flex. Super stiff is not my bag. Should I be considering another model, or go with his recommendation? I told him all this and he seems pretty experienced?

    Question I just went ion the other day and talked to a boot fitter

  92. Lee Lau November 2nd, 2010 10:00 pm

    Ted,

    I am really hesitant to second-guess a bootfitter who can work with you in person and knows your feet or has seen them. Your boots are possibly the most important piece of gear and obviously can make or break your experience. I am one of those people who don’t need a footbed with an Intuition liner. But many people need a footbed.

    As for the alpine power wraps – yes they are really stiff. Try something else – perhaps the Alpines – if you want something less stiff

  93. Chris Budda November 30th, 2010 9:13 pm

    Hello

    We are trying to fasten some Velcro to 12mm thick foam with polyester fabric to either side. We’ve found Shoo Goo to be the toughest, but it adhesion has been inconsistent. Is there a way to sew the Velcro on so that it does not go all the way through the foam or overly compress it.

  94. Lou November 30th, 2010 9:20 pm

    Figure out which surface the Shoe Goo adheres best to and coat it with that. Then try Seamgrip or climbing skin glue…

  95. jj December 2nd, 2010 12:45 pm

    Looking into purchasing liners for baruntse size 45 boots. I have a high arch, fairly narrow heal and fairly wide toe width. Any suggestions as to what liner I could use? much appreciated

  96. Doug December 14th, 2010 6:14 pm

    I have a set of powerwrap intuitions in an 4 year old pair of rossignol bandit boots. The powerwraps are brand new (skid in them 3 days) and i love them. I got a smokin deal on a pair of new lange RX 130s from a friend who didn’t like them and i want to swap my intuition liners into the lange rx boot. Do i need to get the liner re-heated and remolded or am i good to go?

  97. Lee Lau December 14th, 2010 6:42 pm

    Doug,

    My bet is that the liners will be good to go without re-cooking UNLESS the bootshells of your old Rossi Bandit boots and the new Langes are radically different in size/shape

  98. Jason December 16th, 2010 12:34 am

    Hi Lee,

    Firstly, thank you for the info. I have a question about Intuition sizing. I typically wear a US9 or 9.5 street shoe and my ski boots are Salomon XWave 10s in a 26.0. I believe Intuitions sizing is 26.0/8US and 27.0/9US so should which size should I be looking at if I was to order a pair?

    I’m fairly aggressive/expert skier so would the PowerWraps or the Luxury Liner be appropriate for my skiing and current boot setup?

    Lastly, can you recommend an Intuition dealer in Vancouver, BC?

    Thanks,

    J

  99. Eddy December 16th, 2010 1:37 pm

    Hi Lee,
    A little follow up. Intuition recommended for my tight fitting 25.5 rossignol pro 130 carbon’s a 27 sized Plug Powerwrap liner. Even though I wasn’t sure how a big liner would fit inside my shell, I went with their suggestion. After fully baking the liners in an oven I was able to evenly squish the liners into the boot. Perfect fit. Now my 9.5 sized feet don’t even feel like they are in cruel plastic ice boxes. Don’t be afraid to size up a little bit. One size up should fit in most shells.

  100. Lee Lau December 16th, 2010 1:40 pm

    Jason,

    Intuition does direct sales and has a dealer list on their site.

    I think Intuition usually recommends a size bigger liner than boot shell size so it would be a size 27 for you. Powerwraps are stiffer. Luxury is not as stiff but more touring oriented. Given that you have the ability to try before you buy I would definitely try them out first but I would suspect you’d be in Powerwraps given that its for an alpine boot

  101. Lee Lau December 16th, 2010 4:23 pm

    Thanks Eddy. It’s always good to know what happened and am glad your feet are happy!

  102. Lise December 30th, 2010 3:17 pm

    Lee,
    If I am buying an intuition liner for the first time…..do I want a power wrap, luxury, or lady godiva? Or does it matter. I down hill ski only and like warmth and control. I don’t want pressure on the top of my foot which any pressure cuts off circulation. I have a wide forefoot yet want to fill up the excess volume in my fischer boot.
    Any help here?
    Thanks,
    Lise

  103. Lise December 30th, 2010 3:22 pm

    Hi Lee,
    I forgot to ask……what is the key decision criteria for whether or not you should have a footbed for you liner? I don’t want one if I don’t need it. and If I don’t need it should I size up to a 26 for my 25.5 boot size (yes I know it is really a 25).
    Thanks,
    Lise (freezing feet)

  104. Roger January 26th, 2011 4:25 pm

    Just got my Luxury Liners. Intuition recommended a size 29 medium volume for my Mega Ride 27-28.5 shells. Although the foot size is ok, the outside dimension seems big for the shell, though I can get it in. When I heat these up, do you think they’ll still fit? Just putting them in unheated, it seems as if the toe area is getting squashed. I worried about it getting too short. Any thoughts are appreciated. Once I heat them, or wear them, they are unreturnable. Perhaps a low volume model would be better?

  105. Lou January 26th, 2011 4:37 pm

    So long as they don’t crumple or wrinkle when inserted in shell, they’ll be fine. When heated, that foam is highly compressible.

  106. Lee Lau January 26th, 2011 5:07 pm

    Lise – I’m so sorry. Totally missed the notice in your question.

    I think you’re a candidate for the Plug liner. It’s basically a thin version of the Powerwrap. It’s a more performance fit with the catch that you might compromise liner warmth (your freezing feet comment).

    As to footbeds. I don’t use footbeds but then I have almost no arch and I’ve found some correlation between people with flat feet being quite comfortable without arches. High or pronounced arch feet seem to prefer footbeds. Also footbeds add some insulating warmth. As much as it sounds trite – the answer is, it depends

  107. David Yabsley January 26th, 2011 7:33 pm

    Roger: To fit your Intuition liners you should put them into the shell first. Then find a long stretch sock, fill the sock one third to a half full of rice, tie the end, place the sock in a microwave oven for at least seven minutes depending on the microwave oven’s output, then place the sock into the boot for at least five minutes. This fits the liner to your boot perfectly, then put on the boots with a toe cap, as normal for liner fitting, to fit your foot, and no worries. Intuition prefer clients to use a trained Intuition boot fitter but if you do not have reasonable access to a boot fitter they will supply the instructions. I live in Cairns Tropical Australia so they did this for me. It works a treat! Regards David

  108. maurice June 16th, 2011 9:20 pm

    Ive got a new pair of Scarpa Tornados with Intuition liners (I believe its the powerwrap series ) . Ive pretty wide feet and decent sized bunion on one side. Shell fit is good length wise but theres only about 2mm spare width wise on the left foot with the bunion.

    Should I get the shell punched before or after baking the liners.

    WRT to baking I gather using the rice method is safer than putting the whole liners in a convection oven but the oven has advantages in more evenly heating the whole liner. Any suggestions for getting the liner back in the boot post heating? Its already a pretty tight fit especially with the stiff black ski tongue

    thanks for any help

  109. David Yabsley June 17th, 2011 1:19 am

    Sorry Maurice bad news on the Scarpas. Unless Scarpa have produced a new wide shell, and from what you say, they have not, it is unlikely that they can be blown out to accommodate your foot. Scarpa are known for narrow fitting boots. Whoever sold you these boots should have given you better advice.

    When you do your inners give the rice a try first. You won’t believe how hot the inner becomes and since it is already in the boot your foot will give it the exact shape you require. The rice method is now standard with Intuition.

    Re your bunion: Have a Podiatrist look at it. You will curse yourself for having put up with the pain for so long. You will get instant relief.

    Regards David

  110. maurice June 17th, 2011 5:03 am

    Thanks for the feedback David and greetings from a fellow Queenslander,

    Tornados have a last of 100mm so they’re certainly not the widest but still roomier than 98mm race style plugs. Other reviews have stated they’re even wider than the stated 100mm so I had some confidence they would suit

    I’ve had head edge series boots before and at 104 width they were way too wide. My non bunion foot fits fine even before baking so if I can get them punched successfully I’m optimistic they’ll work out.

    The shells are Pebax which from what I’ve heard is trickier to punch than normal alpine boot PE but Ive got a boot-fitter lined up who is confident he can make them fit.

    Thanks for the tip on the bunion, I’ll give them a go but I’m afraid I’ve played too much tennis to have normal feet

  111. Lou June 17th, 2011 5:56 am

    Maurice, Scarpas are actually not particularly narrow in the toe box, and are very sensitive to how high your foot is inside the boot. Try raising your foot up inside the boot with a spacer under the liner as this will place your foot at a wider part of the shell. And by all means have the boots punched, any good boot fitter can do it easily, just make sure they’re experienced with Pebax plastic, which requires a bit more care and craft than PU. As for the liners, any method of heating/molding works fine when done correctly. I like the blower stack method presently, though I use my convection oven as well. Place a small amount of extra padding over bunions when molding, 3 or 4 layers of duct tape is what I usually do.

    IMPORTANT: If using the boots in Dynafit or other tech bindings, the boot should be held in a jig if doing aggressive heat punching, otherwise the alignment between toe and heel fittings can get thrown off enough to make you need a left and right ski so the bindings will line up with the boots. See this post for an example of a boot holder

    http://www.wildsnow.com/3812/backcountry-ski-boot-clamp/

    The boot holder jig fixture actually makes the work go quite a bit better and easier in many ways, as having the boot scoot around the workbench while trying to work is a pain, but mainly, it keeps everything lined up correctly.

    Hope that helps. Lou

  112. Jeff June 19th, 2011 10:49 pm

    With the kind of expertise being tossed around in this blog, I’m confident someone can help me.
    I skin / ski on ’06-’07 Scarpa Denali boots size 29.5. I love the way these boots drive turns through the Mt..Hood mank and the reletively light weight.
    What I don’t love is how they hurt my left sixth toe and side of the foot after 2hrs. Also, my ankle bones get a bit “harshed” late in the day.

    The stock liners are “Plus Fit” wrap around syle similar to Intuition “Precision High” liners found in Spirit 4s.
    I’ve had the liners baked on the blower at a reputable shop and the shell punched out in the problem area with only slight relief.

    My size 12 D medium arch feet with Superfeet foot beds fit perfectly lengthwise.

    I definately want to try some Intuition liners of some sort , but there are so many choices, (wrap-around vs. tongued, high volume vs. low volume) my brain is approaching overload.

    I’m considering going with the Intuition “Speed Pro” tongued liner from Scarpa’s website to keep the 29.5 mondo sizing the same. Anybody know anthing about this liner?

    Any and all input on my fit situation and liner choice will be appreciated.

    Thanks, Jeff

  113. David Yabsley June 20th, 2011 4:45 am

    Hi Jeff,

    Email for Crystal at Intiuition, just append her name to their domain (we’ll say no more because of spambots). She was a great help when I purchased my Intuition Liners. I also loved my Scarpa’s but they are a narrow fit at the ‘LAST’ and even though I had them blown out by the guys in Niseko Japan it just did not work. Finding a boot wide at the ‘LAST’ with a tight heal fit is not easy. I settled for ‘Dynafit Titian TF-X’ but found that I had to replace the liners before use. I naturally went for the Intuition. Crystal, I hope she is still with them, suggested the ‘Pro-Tour’ lining. If her e-mail does not work just e-mail Intuition and someone will get back to you, they were great with me. Oh and the Titans and the Pro-Tour inners are a treat.

    Regards David

  114. Miguel Cruz y Celis July 5th, 2011 2:09 pm

    Can you give me step by step instructions on how to heat mold my La Sportiva Baruntse liner? Thanks

  115. Lou July 5th, 2011 2:24 pm

    Miguel, are they new boots? If so, directions are said to be enclosed with the boots. If not, contact La Sportiva and get the molding temperature. Heat oven to that temp using accurate thermometer. Turn oven OFF (to prevent radiative heat from burning liner), stick the liner (do one at a time) in there for about 10 minuets, stick it in the boot, but the boot on, lace, and wait around 8 minutes while standing in the boot. Cut toes off a thick pair of socks and use as additional spacer over the socks you wear while molding, so you end up with correct toe room.

    Best, take your boots to a dealer that will mold them for you.

    Hope that helps. Lou

  116. Tom August 28th, 2011 10:28 pm

    Hey Lou, i have developed a haglunds deformity so need to upgrade to thermo formable liners in both my ski touring and alpine climbing boots. Would a thermoformable liner for a scarpa matrix work if i slotted it into a plastic climbing boot? or would the difference in boot shape and high cuff make the boot uncomfortable?
    Any other tips for large heel boned people?
    Cheers from NZ
    Tom

  117. Tim September 5th, 2011 4:21 pm

    Hey, thanks for your great commentary on the intuition liners. I am very interested in picking up a pair of luxury liners and had a quick problem you might be able to solve.

    I grew up racing and now hit the backcountry instead of the gates, but still use a smaller shell for quickness…

    My shell is a 27 mondo black diamond quadrant and i am a 10.5/11 sneaker.

    Should I go with the 27 mondo size luxury or 28 and if so what volume? Do these liners stretch in length at all? Does the volume change the warmth of the liner?

    Thanks alot.

  118. Joel September 27th, 2011 1:57 am

    Lee:

    Any recommendations for a shorter 3-buckle boot? Specifically, a dynafit Zzero 3 CF. The stock liner packed out in a season of good use, and it would be great to replace it with a nice thick liner to fill the boot up an stiffen he interface.

    Cheers!

  119. George October 5th, 2011 2:51 pm

    Lee,

    Great information on Intuition Liners. I used this and the blog comments as my primary information source in making my purchase decision today, and also through my emails with Crystal at Intuition customer service.

    My Salomon Evolution liners were packed out after 6 years of use. I ski bumps and had no problems until last ski season. Last season I got “shin bite” which gives a raw wound just above the front ankle, which I have learned is caused by the tongue rubbing against my lower shin because my foot moved more in packed out OEM liners. Mike on this blog complained of the same problem (Feb 26 2010), and this is an answer to him and others with a similar shin bite problem.

    After discussing with Intuition/Crystal the proper style (Power Wrap or Luxury Liner) size (boot size or one size up) and thickness (High, Medium, Low), I decided to go with Luxury Liner medium at my boot/OEM liner size. The Luxury Liner has a tongue, but keeps the foot just as immobile as the Power Wrap, while allowing flexibility for skiing. The Power Wrap is less flexible, and the extra front padding is not the problem for skiiers with shin bite; the problem is about rubbing. Contrary to what some have said here, Intuition does not recommend going one size above your boot size, if your shell is properly sized.

    My shop is an Intuition dealer, and they only carry mediums. Also, the lead buyer prefers Luxury Liners with tongue for downhill skiing, rather than the earlier Power Wrap style that is less flexible. They use a convection oven, and toe clips to do the fit. The tube oven some have recommended may not heat the boot as well on all sides. If you use a foot bed (I use Superfeet), they use that in the liner as part of the heat mold. Actually, they have you put the toe clips and the foot bed on your feet, put your ski sock over those, and have you slip your foot into the warmed liner in your shell. My boot is a 27 for my US 9.5 shoe size, and I bought a Luxury Liner 27 with medium thickness (A9). After the professional fit, it is quite snug and comfortable.

    Thanks Lee and everyone for sharing.

    George

  120. Lee Lau October 5th, 2011 3:42 pm

    @Joel – “Any recommendations for a shorter 3-buckle boot? Specifically, a dynafit Zzero 3 CF. The stock liner packed out in a season of good use, and it would be great to replace it with a nice thick liner to fill the boot up an stiffen he interface.”

    ZZero3CF is a very nice touring boot. I’d suggest pairing it with a nice touring liner like the Pro-Tour. If you want something a bit stiffer than the Pro-Tour try either the 2.0/Dreamliner or the Luxury liner

  121. Lee Lau October 5th, 2011 3:47 pm

    @Tim

    I’d consider going with the Plug liner in your case since you’re in a fairly small boot – but that sizing makes sense given your skiing preference. The Plug liner is thinner foam so can fit into tighter boots without too much constrictrion.

    “Should I go with the 27 mondo size luxury or 28 and if so what volume?” Lee – go with the 27. Intuition usually says to size one up and then cook to fit but it sounds like you don’t mind sacrificing a bit of comfort/warmth for performance. Not my personal preference but ymmv. and all that. Pick the low volume liner

    “Do these liners stretch in length at all? Does the volume change the warmth of the liner?” They stretch in 3d – ie length, width height. They actually stretch a lot. The lower volume liner has less foam and won’t stretch as much as high volume. The lower volume is also less warm.

    Overall, from what you say about your skiing preference I’m going out on a limb and recommending a solution that gives you much less room to play with fitting and comfort than most. That’s the tradeoff for performance though

  122. Lee Lau October 5th, 2011 3:51 pm

    Thanks George – I’m glad its useful. Aye, internet advice especially about feet is really hard to give other than banal generalities. As for this: “Contrary to what some have said here, Intuition does not recommend going one size above your boot size, if your shell is properly sized.”: that’s kind of new for me so I’ll ask Crystal/Rob when I pop by next. That might have to do with the new foam used in the Dreamliner/2.0 liners.

    Thanks and I learned something new too!

  123. John October 5th, 2011 10:57 pm

    I have used the high volume Luxury liners for 3 seasons in 2 boots with the same shell size with no problems. I also use the Pro Tours 1 size larger since they don’t offer a 9mm shell. I like the Pro Tours but have pulled the straps out of several pairs.

    The soft tongue works great in other race boots with stock liners.

  124. Karl October 20th, 2011 7:16 am

    Any opinions on which of the liners from the current Intuition line-up would be the best pick for Dynafit TLT’s and my low-volueme ankles? Much appreciated!

  125. stevenjo October 20th, 2011 12:48 pm

    Lou – this may be a stretch for wildsnow, but I’m replacing the liner in my resort boot (-pre intuition Dalbello Kryptons) and curious if you had any suggestions on 1) fit/size & 2) a liner what would keep the same flex index of ~120 as I have it set now. Seems like the Full Tilt liners would be a good place to start on volume and height but figured you might have other thoughts.

  126. Roger November 3rd, 2011 5:27 pm

    I have a 2010 pair of Dalbello Blenders (non-Intuition liners) and would like to replace the liners with moldable liners. I would prefer to replace the liners with the new Dalbello/Intuition liners but do not know if Dalbello will sell them to me or whether their cost is prohibitive. Assuming I cannot buy the Dalbello’s what can you recommend directly from Intuition? I use moldable footbeds and do not want a real stiff boot. Also, I have a very wide foot which is quite snug in the original Blender shell and liner. I prefer the tongue model. Most of my skiing is on blue runs with an occasional black. Your input would be appreciated.

  127. Lee Lau November 3rd, 2011 5:38 pm

    @Karl – the only liner I got to fit in my TLT5s were the Intuition 2.0 liners and I sized down one size from my regular size then cooked the toe. I’m a sz 27 Dynafit and got the 26.0 Intuition 2.0 aka Dreamliner in there.

  128. Lee Lau November 3rd, 2011 5:40 pm

    @ Roger -> Sdounds like you’re a candidate for the Luxury liner. I say that because a wide foot might require some thermomolding

  129. Jon Moceri November 3rd, 2011 9:18 pm

    @Karl

    I have 26.0 TLT5 Mountain boot with 25.0 Intuition Pro Tour liners. It was a tight fit and so I could not use my footbeds. But the Intuition foam formed its own footbed and I am very happy with the support and fit.

    When I bought the boot, my foot fit the 25.0 shell better, but I upsized to the 26.0 shell because I have a wide foot and my toes get cold easily, so I wanted a little more room. I had the forefoot punched out a bit without any problems and the Intuition liner for more warmth.

  130. Karl November 3rd, 2011 9:19 pm

    Lee,
    Thank you for your answer. Mine are older TLT 4. Guess I should have been more specific. I usually end up adding some foam to the tongues of my liners to make the boot thighter around the instep-ankle. Why would you “cook the toe”? That is the part I thought should have been left roomy. Or is cooking the toe some insider talk that got lost on me? However, I never thought about downsizing the liner. Is that a good idea? Opinions appreciated.

  131. Lee Lau November 3rd, 2011 9:35 pm

    Karl,

    I’m not familiar with the TLT4.

    “Cooking” or thermomolding the toebox of the liner can let you mold the liner to fit your foot. Most people would do so to give your toes more room which I assumed is what you wanted to do.

  132. Karl November 3rd, 2011 9:55 pm

    Lee,
    What I meant was that I was not familiar with selective cooking of the toe box ONLY. Thought it might have been meant to fill up the space in the outer shell left by downsizing the liners. In my understanding the toe box is the part distal to the ball of ones foot just to make myself clear. Thank you again.

  133. jeff November 14th, 2011 6:41 pm

    lee,

    awesome writeup! just wondering if i might get some insight too…

    i’ve been in a set of lange zero x9′s (the old blue shell/neon yellow buckle race boot from forever ago) for a long time. looking to upgrade my liners, as the fit has never been terribly great in my stock boot liners anyway.

    never actually raced gates (moguls….did that for a few years competitively in these boots, however), and now i stay off the beaten track 99% of the time. i’m also planning on dabbling in a bit of touring this year, using these same boots…wondering what size liner i should go for, but more importantly…which liner?

    power wrap? power wrap plug (because i’ve already got a race style shell)? luxury? alpine? the new pro tour (though i literally plan to do maybe 10% touring in these boots….if i like touring enough, i’ll buy a separate setup)?

    i have a 10-10.5 street shoe, a bit of a wider foot but never enough to justify finding “wide fit” shoes, shell size of my langes is about a 28 or 28.5 (332 bsl), stock lange liner is listed as sz. 10/11

    any suggestions?

  134. Lee Lau November 14th, 2011 10:02 pm

    My wife had some older Lange liners but doesn’t sound as old as yours. They were pretty heavy and packed out. Almost anything you’d get would be better than what you have from comfort, warmth and fit perspective. I’d stay away from the more touring oriented liners frankly because Langes are very performance oriented boots and my philosophy is that performance oriented liners should go into performance oriented boots. Therefore for you try the Powerwrap or Alpine Powerwrap liners. Maybe the plug if you’re pretty tolerant of cold temps (the plug has less insulation because its thinner).

    You’d probably be a size up from your boot size which would mean a size 29 – 29.5 liner.

    You probably also know that touring in an alpine boot is possible but most readers of this blog would say that its not an optimal experience so I’ll leave it at that. That’s why I’m not recommending touring-oriented liners.

  135. Frame November 15th, 2011 6:13 am

    I dabble with touring in Alpine boots. Suggest you use Wildsnow’s search function for posts on blister prevention. Tape those heels/shins!

  136. jeff November 16th, 2011 1:34 pm

    your suggestion for the powerwrap or alpine powerwrap (same as “alpine”?) was on par with what i was thinking…but crystal @ intuition suggested i go pro-tour or medium volume luxury liner.

    i’ve already crossed out the pro-tour for my old lange alpine boots…just wondering if a luxury liner is still a good bet for my boot? powerwrap is thicker, right? i tend to get cold feet (though, granted the past 10 seasons i’ve spent in northern ontario, skiing in -30), just wondering if there’s much difference between the luxury & powerwrap for a race boot, that will be used almost entirely off-piste?

    penny for your thoughts!

  137. Lee Lau November 16th, 2011 4:29 pm

    Jeff,

    Crystals trying to be kind to your feet. If you’re going to tour in alpine boots the experience will kind of suck no matter how hard I sugar-coat it. My thoughts are why try to make the alpine boot more comfortable (ie ProTour). It ain’t going to work.

    Powerwrap is warmer than Luxury generally (less places for heat to escape. For the ultimate in warmth. Get a Powerwrap, ask them for spare bits of foam. Cut the foam into footbed shapes and put them UNDER the liner against the bootshell. Lots of heat lost from the soles of the feet. You’ll get more insulation that way.

    Also Langes were notorious for letting in snow through the gaskets at the front of the boots. Duck tape the gaskets.

    Not that much difference in performance between the Luxury and Powerwrap in an alpine boot for downhill performance imo

  138. jeff November 16th, 2011 5:12 pm

    perfect! thanks again….also, i got sick of the duct tape repeatedly falling off too often. suppose i could get back into the habit. cheers, and thanks for the clarification!

  139. Nancy November 19th, 2011 12:13 pm

    Lee,
    I have narrow, low volume feet, and always have way too much empty space above my foot in liners. Sloppy foot while skiing. So, I would like something that is super thick and fits like a plush glove. What is the thickest Intuition liner for narrow, low volume feet? Would it be the Godiva or the new Dreamliner (in the high volume model)? I like the idea of not having to heat mold (Dreamliner). Thanks!

  140. Lee Lau November 19th, 2011 5:09 pm

    Nancy.

    I’ve got no experience with the Godiva. My wife loves the Dreamliner and she’s got pretty narrow feet so I’d say that’s a good choice in the high volume version

    Something I know some other people have done is to get some Intuition foam and tape/glue it to the tongue of their boots to take up some of the empty space there. Intuition can almost certainly give you some. For someone like you with very particular unique needs a bootfitter probably is a good idea though.

  141. cascadegirl December 4th, 2011 2:30 pm

    I have been looking for a while now and can’t find any information online about the height of the various liner styles. I am looking for a liner to replace the stock liners from some 2004-ish Scarpa T3s mens size 9.
    Could you help with which liner would be best? I was thinking the universal would be the closest in height to the stock liners (which measure 25.5cm high from heel to top of cuff)
    Thanks for the great info!

  142. Lee Lau December 4th, 2011 7:30 pm

    cascadegirl – you are correct. The Universal is for you.

  143. DH Dad December 13th, 2011 7:32 am

    Lee, I’ve been looking for a solution for my Salomon Quest 10 boots which are used 85% alpine and 15% touring. Was exchanging email with Intuition directly but they’ve not responded. Unfortunately no boot fitters near me carry the liners so I have to try the order online approach. Here’s my last response to Intuition answering the questions they asked:

    The boot is a size 26.5, the shell has 26/26.5 shown on the side with a boot sole length of 308mm. I have a wide forefeet with narrow heels, so there are two measurements I took:

    1 with my toes just touching the very front which really crammed my toes together yielding 1.25″ space behind my heel.

    The other measurement is with my toes as far forward as comfortable (only outside toes touching) yielding just under an inch of space behind my heel..

    I have an aftermkt footbed. My biggest issue (with narrow heels, ankles and smallish calves) is heel lift, boots fit my forefoot well. Even with boots buckled tight I can lift my heel just sitting down at least half an inch. I also have a full finger worth of space at the top of the cuff. It appears I need to take up space everywhere except my forefoot.

    Reading all the posts here it seem the Luxury liner is the best to maintain the tourability of my Quest boots but since they’re not really touring boots rather alpine boots with a walk/hike mode the Alpine wrap may work better as it could take up more space. Is there a difference between the traditional Alpine wrap liner and the ones marketed at retailers as Full-Tilt Intuition wrap liners?

    Kevin

  144. Lee Lau December 13th, 2011 10:59 am

    DH Dad,

    Full-Tilt uses the Intuition liner so it is the same. I don’t know if they’re the older gen 1 foam or the “Dreamliner” Intuition 2.0 foam (see article written about the different foams).

    Even after you get the liner you undoubtedly need bootwork. Either bits of bontex (or some other foam) glued in appropriate places to take up space. I won’t even hazard a guess at where to do that because it seems you have a lot of heel-lift.

    I’m working from the assumption that you are stuck with the shells you have. Your shell size SOUNDS (emphasis added) small because that’s not an awful lot of space you have so it might even be that you have to get the “Plug” liner which is a thinner foam to accommodate people who have very snug fitting boots.

    If your shell size is tight (any bootfitter examining you in person can confirm that) then go with the 26 or 26.5 liner

    Diagnosing behind a keyboard is ultimately almost useless which begs the question of whether this is even useful but my gut feel is that you’d be best off not even trying to make that Quest boot more than it is; which is basically a soft’ish alpine boot which can struggle with touring. Sorry to be so blunt but there you go….

  145. George December 23rd, 2011 1:28 pm

    This is a follow-up to my October 5, 2011 comment on this blog, regarding purchase of Luxury Liners for my Salomon ski boots. My problem had been “shin burn” from packed-out liners, which let my foot and shin move up and down (just a bit) in my boot. I thought if I can’t fix this problem I may have to give up skiing, because the result is very painful. Happily, replacing my OEM liner with Intuition Luxury Liners completely fixed my problem. I just got back from 4 days of skiing in Colorado, with a lot of aggressive skiing in bumps, and my boots now work fine. The boots feel the same, maybe a little more snug, with absolutely no shin burn problem. Before this, I thought it may be “shin bang” which is a different problem, and I’d tried Power Boost straps and a special tongue liner pad. Those products had no positive effects. Thanks intution for this excellent solution! My boots fit like new (maybe better liners than OEM), at a cost of $200 instead of the $500+ for new boots that may not fit as well.

  146. Lee Lau December 23rd, 2011 6:03 pm

    George – that is simply awesome. I’m so happy for you! Passed the comment on to Intuition

  147. Bernard January 3rd, 2012 7:28 am

    Just had my boot fitter mold my power wraps for my Tecnica Cochises. First intution liner Ifor me. The left boot came out great but on the right boot I think I buckled the top buckle/strap too tight and it compressed the foam much more than I’d like. Feels like there’s now less volume in the cuff area because of this and I need to crank down the strap more. A crease also formed right where the overlap started. The liner may have gotten caught in the boot. Would a re-bake fix these issues?

  148. Lou January 3rd, 2012 8:44 am

    Hi Bernard, in those situations I usually try simply removing the liner and hitting compressed area and crease with my heat gun. Once it puffs up a bit in those areas the problems usually go away. Re-baking with a heat riser system is ok as well, but might be overkill. Lou

  149. Bernard January 3rd, 2012 12:49 pm

    Thanks Lou. Any tips for heating up the area with a heat-gun? I have visions of lighting my boot on fire, but I’m known to be a bit paranoid. :-)

  150. Robert January 4th, 2012 3:41 am

    Hello – I’m in the final throws of purchasing a pair of Full Tilt Boots with the Intuition Pro Liner. I’m having a dilemma over which size to go for. The 28.0 or the 29.0? The 28.0 feels a great fit but a little short in the toe. The 29.0 feels less short in the toe but requires more cranking to get the fit I desire.

    Question is how much do the Intuition liners pad out after mounlding? Would I be better off getting the 28.0 and letting it pad out?

    Any thoughts welcome.

    Many thanks.

  151. Lou January 4th, 2012 5:49 am

    Well, if you want performance fit, which I’d assume you would with a Full Tilt, I’d go for the smaller shell. If your toes need a tiny bit more room and you don’t get that after molding and use, have a boot fitter blow out the shell toe a few mill.

    I have the same problem with most of my boots, can relate.

    Lou

  152. Robert January 4th, 2012 7:40 am

    Thanks Lou. I’m leaning that way. Got both pairs put to one side before the final consultation. How much do the Pro Liners pad out after heat molding?

    Is it considerable compared to how they feel right out of the box?

  153. Lou January 4th, 2012 7:45 am

    I’d say the pack-out is moderate, and pretty similar to other liners. Mold them with no sock of course (just a thin stocking over your foot).

  154. Matt Hill January 4th, 2012 8:28 pm

    Great thread here. I have 317mm Garmont Adrenalin boots and the liners have packed out all they can. I am starting to get hot spots on my little toes and pain in the balls of my feet. Additionally, the tips of my big toes always seem to go numb during the ski season. Nerve pinching I guess. The feeling comes back a few months after the ski season. I work in ski boots and spend about 40+ hours/week in them, so need some comfort! What would you recommend for me? Thanks!

    Matt

  155. Lee Lau January 4th, 2012 9:00 pm

    I had the Garmont Palau liners Matt. One of my happiest days was when I burnt them on a campfire after I drowned them in mud retreating out of the alpine and wading through a swamp for a day. I’d send you pictures but nothing will convey how bad they were.

    The Adrenalines are boots that have the feel of a brick so frankly nothing will really make them tour worse. Might as well go stiff and get some Alpines or Alpine Powerwraps in them. I’d imagine you’re a size 28 liner but best to check.

    Sorry to be such a downer but its an honest answer

  156. Matt Hill January 4th, 2012 10:02 pm

    Uggh. Thanks for the advice though Lee!

  157. Kim January 5th, 2012 3:28 pm

    Love you blog! Have you ever come across someone with a metal allergy having skin trouble from their boots? My son races and is now breaking out over his whole body. We are considering Intuition liners due to their closed cell aspect. Any feedback on metal allergy and liners?
    Thank you in advance,
    Kim

  158. dan s January 10th, 2012 4:32 am

    Having trouble with soreness on my navicular bone on my Solomon XWave boots. Boot fitters grinded and molded the boot away from the area, but still hurts. Which of the Intuition liners would provide relief ?

  159. bernie January 15th, 2012 3:34 am

    Hi, I’ve got a pair of Dalbello Krypton Cross ski boots, size 26/26.5 Mondo. I tried the 25.5 but they hurt my toes at the front. Having skied for week, the liners have given and they are now loose. I tried putting in an extra sole insert which makes them tight at the front but the heels can still lift a little. So, i’m thinking of putting in either Intuition Alpine or Powerwrap liners. I’m an advanced skier but not extreme and I like a nice tight fit all round, which I got with My Raichle boots with the Flexon HD foam liner.
    Any advice please. Bernie, England

  160. Lee Lau January 15th, 2012 9:08 am

    dans – sorry. I don’t even know what is a navicular bone

    bernie – sounds like you need a plug liner which is designed to give that nice tight fit.

  161. Allan Morris January 29th, 2012 5:50 pm

    I have the new Fischer Vacuum 130 ski boots. I have just over 20 days on them, they are now packing out, so I am going to have them re-molded. I find the stock liner somewhat wanting in the toe area and they are not very warm. Last week I had cold toes at about -15. I am thinking about Intuition liners. I talked to a fitter in Whistler who said he would love to do an intuition liner while molding the Vacuum boot as he feels that would be an almost perfect match. Are you aware of this being done? Does Intuition in Vancouver actually do liners there or do I have to go to a ski boot store, such as the one I got my Vacuums from? I have a low volume foot and even with the Vacuums, find I have a gap between the top bend of my foot at the ankle, resulting in a small heel lift. Over buckling causes numbing and cold feet.. Which liner do you think would solve that? I also put my boots on a boot warmer every day for an hour after skiing. Will that affect the liner?

  162. Lee Lau January 29th, 2012 5:54 pm

    Allan,

    I have no experience with Vacumns.

    If you’re happy with your fitter, its best to stick with her/him. I don’t know if that’s the case so I’m throwing that out there.

    Intuition does do liner fittings at its store in Vancouver

  163. Hampus January 29th, 2012 7:00 pm

    Hi guys, I would be super pleased for all the help I can get, i’m totally confused and in a bit of a hurry :)

    I’m from Sweden but spending my season in Revelstoke BC. For about two weeks ago it was very cold, I should have stayed inside. But I didn’t unfortunately and ever since that I have felt pretty numb in my toes and gets frozen very easily. I don’t want to give up this season beacuse of my frozen toes so I’m looking for solutions now.

    I have a pair of Atomic B-tec 120, that has been pushed out to make place for my exremely wide feets, so the shell is just fine. But the liner is beginning to broke.

    I have heard that the Intuition liners are supposed to be warmer, I found it hard to believe because they don’t seem so much thicker, are they really much warmer? :)

    I’m also thinking of installing therm-ics warming soles in my old pair of liners, I can’t afford both things unfortunately. What would you go for?

    And if you recommend me an intution liner, which one. I have tested both with tongue and with wrap (without molding them of course) and the wrap felt very, very tight (I have pretty large calfs and legs? Do you think I still should go for the wrap-model since it in general is warmer (it was really uncomfortable).

    And in the case I go for a liner with a tongue, which of the luxuary and the freeride one is the warmest you think?

    I would be so very thankful for all the kind of help I can get, I’m in a bit of a hurry and can’t decide what to do :)

  164. Dan January 29th, 2012 8:03 pm

    Hampus,

    I feel your pain. I frost-nipped my toes and fingers several times many years ago and still have problems with the digits when it is even only moderately cold. Intuition Liners along with making sure I have room in the toe box helps a lot. However, Intuition makes a lot of liners, of varying thickness, etc. If I were in your position, I would make a phone call to Intuition in Vancouver and talk to them. I cannot say whether or not Intuition makes the warmest liners…maybe someone else has an opinion on that. Best of luck to you.

  165. Lou January 29th, 2012 8:23 pm

    As they say in the automotive industry, there is no replacement for displacement… with liners and warmth, there is no replacement for thick, lower density foam. The brand doesn’t really matter, but Intuition is an easy way to come up with that. Another key is to not jam a thick foam liner in a boot shell that ends up compressing the foam a bunch when it’s molded. Doing so makes them colder. For my Denali 2010 boots I used shells big enough so the toe area of the liner didn’t compress at all, and even glued some extra foam to the toe of the liner as I had some extra space in front. They ended up being warm boots. Comfy.

  166. Hampus January 29th, 2012 10:09 pm

    Thanks so much Dan and Lou for your opinions,

    It seems as if it’s worth to try the Intuition and try to get some extra space for the toes. They said at the store that they had some tools specialmade for making toe-space during the heatmolding. Do you know if it does any difference to the warmth of the liner to choose a large volume instead of a small? Or is that only depending on one footsize or can a person with shoesize US: 10 have both low and high volume?

    If any anyone else has an opinion about this you are more than Welcome, I’m thankful for all help I can get and all advices are helpful!

    Best Whishes

    Hampus Persson

  167. Lou January 30th, 2012 7:35 am

    Hampus, you’re getting into the details of boot fitting. Suffice it to say that if you have a foot with normal to wider heel width, you can use a larger shell and take advantage of the extra room in the toe to let liner exist at full thickness in the toe area, as well as allow your toes a bit of room for blood circulation. In my case, I have skinny ankles so I’ve found in almost all cases I’m better off running a smaller shell and punching out the shell toe 1/2 size then fitting in a slightly longer liner than stock. Preferably, the liner would be thicker than stock as well, so I get a good ankle mold. In my case, I wish nearly all liners were a few millimeters thicker. Over the years that would have saved me literally days of work making boots fit my ankles.

  168. Lou January 30th, 2012 7:36 am

    Oh, and again, if you’re concerned about warmth it’s very important to make sure the foam in the toe area of the liner is not getting any more than a small amount of compression from stock thickness.

  169. Hampus January 31st, 2012 7:08 pm

    Hi again. now I have some new questions that I would be so very happy to get some advices and answers on :) All information I can get is very appreciated since I’m in a hurry :)

    I had sort of bad luck. I decided to go for the Luxuary Liner, medium volume in size 29 after trying some different volumes, models and sizes. But when the store that help me, was about to order it Intuition had sold out of that luxuary-liner in that size. Then I changed my mind and went for the 28 (my shell size is 27,5-28) but I have really wide feets (that was why we prefered the size 29, more material to play with during the heat-molding).

    So no it seems as if both size 28 and 29 i the luxuary-liners are sold out. So my question is, the store that helps me had an old model called Freeride left in medium volume size 29, what is the difference between the freeride one and the luxuary one? I’ve heard that the luxuary model is more stiff (which I like) and that it packs out less quick. That the freeride one isn’t so durable?

    Another alternative is to order the dream-liner, but that is also softer than the luxuary I’ve heard, is that true? :) What is the difference between these three models, I now that the dream-liner don’t need any heat-molding :)

    Thankful for all help and advices I can get! :D

    Yours Sincerely

    Hampus Persson

  170. Hampus January 31st, 2012 7:10 pm

    Another question, is the dreamliner much softer than the luxuary one?

  171. Dan January 31st, 2012 8:33 pm

    Hampus: Again, talk to Intuition. That said, I have both the Dreamliner and the Luxury liner. I tried the Dreamliner only two weeks ago and it did not work for me. The Intuition tech told me that the Dreamliner was meant to work with skiers who wore orthodics. The sole is not as thick and I believe that the sides, or at least the lower part is thinner so it can accomodate the orthodic (I use a custom footbed by Superfeet). The Dreamliner packed out in a matter of 4 hours and my feet froze. It was only about 23 degrees F ( -5 C) I was trying the Dreamliner in a pair of TLT5s. The Luxury liner was used for two seasons (about 100 days) in a pair of Megarides. My feet were warm enough and I was satisfied with that liner. Please note that my toes, having been frost-nipped a few times , are very sensitive to the cold. Good Luck.

  172. Allan Morris January 31st, 2012 9:58 pm

    Thanks Lee. I think I will go to Intuition and talk to them first. Then I will go to my boot fitter and discuss with him what process he would prefer. My bootfitter is in Vancouver, the bootfitter in Whistler was just someone I was talking to because that day my feet were really cold and I was ready to jump to something better. With sober second thought I decide to do research rather than make an impulse move. That is how I ended up on this forum.
    I am not sure if I get Intuition to do the liner, then get the fitter to remold the boot around it; buy the liner from Intuition and get the boot fitter to do both; or order/buy the liner from the bootfitter’s store and have it all done there. One extra question though.
    Sunday on Whistler the snow was very wet and heavy. Although I love the snug fit of the Vacuums and they hold me well, I was getting a bit of heel lift because the snow was pushing back at me pretty hard in places. Does the Intuition actually do away with some/all of that lift and movement in those tough conditions. I get a lot less than I have in any other boot but there still is some. If the Intuitions reduced that even more, that would be ideal.

    Al

  173. Hampus February 1st, 2012 5:40 pm

    Thanks all of you that have helped me! Really appreciate it a lot!

    I read very much about the intuition liners now, but I find it hard to find information about their flexes. What I wonder is how the Luxuary, Freeride and Dreamliners flexes are?
    As I’ve understood it the Luxuary Liners is the stiffest, is that right? And in that case is it big difference and which is the stiffer one of the dreamliner and the freeride-model?

    Another thing I’ve been trying to find out is the warmth and the durability of the liners. AS I’ve udnerstood it both the dreamliner and the luxuary model use a different type of material than the old freeride-model that is less liekly to pack out quick. So that the freeride model will pack out much quicker than the dreamliner and the luxuary model, is that right?

    And Dan, I also get frozen really quick ever since i froze my toes so badly a couple of weeks ago. So I need a warm one, perhaps the freeride-model is warmer than the dreamliner then, because you experienced that the dreamliner was less warm, right? and thinner overall? :)

    Thankful for all advices and information I can get, as usual! Thanks everybody and take care!

    Best Whishes

    Hampus Persson

  174. Lee Lau February 1st, 2012 5:45 pm

    Hampus – if anyone ever needed to call Intuition you’re that person. Don’t take this the wrong way but please give them a call. You have so many questions you need to talk to them

  175. Hampus February 1st, 2012 5:52 pm

    Hey again,

    I totally udnerstand that sorry. No of course I don’t take it the wrong way. I would have called them If i could. I from Sweden and I have bough a phone-account that makes it really expensive to call them in vancouver and I have e-mailed them but I don’t get any answers – guess they are busy right now :) So that’s why I keep ask you, and it’s also good to hear from people that have tested the products themself and don’t work for the company sometimes :)

    Thanks a lot! Take care! :)

  176. Lee Lau February 1st, 2012 6:06 pm

    Hampus – dreamliner is the same as Intuition 2.0. They changed the name after I wrote the article. Read the article on Wildsnow about it.

    Freeride is less stiff than Luxury but not by much. Difference is so minor I’m not even sure why there are two liners. It’s the same foam. That info is all in this article that you’re reading right now.

    Get the Freeride liner. The shop should fit it for you.

    Good luck!

  177. Lou February 1st, 2012 6:31 pm

    And, perhaps you can Skype to Intuition, or email them?

  178. Hampus February 1st, 2012 6:58 pm

    Hi again,

    Thanks for your help Lou, Yeah skype would be an idea – don’t have any account though. Yeah I’ve tried e-mailing them, sent them 3 e-mails but they haven’t answered – guess they are busy :)

    Thanks for your help!

  179. Hampus February 1st, 2012 7:29 pm

    Thanks Lou for your time, patience and advices! :)

    I’ve read the article, many parts more than once ;) I’m not so good in english since I’m from Sweden. But the Intuition 2.0 is that a material or a model? Okey, I think that Intuition has stopped to produce the freeride-model, the store that helps me siad that the luxuary-model replaced it and that the luxuary-model is made out of different material than the freeride that is less likely to pack out? Have you heard about that? :) Maybe they had gotten the wrong information.

    I’ve heard that the dreamliner should be colder and a bit thinner, but perhaps that’s not the case either :)

    Cheers

    Hampus

  180. sandy February 13th, 2012 10:36 pm

    Wondering if you can help me. I have a pretty old pair of Intuition and serious shin problems from where the front of the overlap hits my shins. Any suggestions to deal?
    Thanx

  181. Igor March 2nd, 2012 2:31 am

    Hi,
    I got a problem. Tongue of my Lange super comp liner just ripped off(after 2 seasons only!). As you know those boots are pretty stiff, racing like and have snap in, tight feeling, that’s why I like them(always was a Lange guy). In the past I used some Intuition wrap ups (do not recall exact line). I liked their stiffness. However I did not like absence of tongue and felt they are too high.
    What Intuition line would you recommend to try based on this info?

    Thanks a lot!

  182. Lee Lau March 2nd, 2012 12:28 pm

    Igor – try the Luxury. But I warn you it will not be as stiff as the Powerwrap which is what you had before

  183. Lee Lau March 14th, 2012 9:15 pm

    Ridiculously detailed review by marshal olson – http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/intuition-liners

  184. ZeljkoN March 28th, 2012 6:06 am

    I buy dynafit zzero4 px-tf in size 30 shell and stock liner, because 29.5 was to short to me. But I’think shell 30 is to roomy for me. Which Intuition liner do You recommend. What size end wath volume. Do High volume 30 or 29.5 medium or some other?
    Thanks

  185. Lee Lau March 28th, 2012 10:17 am

    Z – try the high-volume 30s. Maybe even 31s

  186. bernie April 3rd, 2012 4:14 am

    I bought a pair of Intuition Prowrap liners size 26 for my Dalbello boots but even after thermal moulding they’re too tight. I’ve worn them for 3 half days only. So I’m trying to sell them. If you know anyone who may be interested please email berniegreen@yahoo.com. I’m in the UK.

    Bernie

  187. Franco June 12th, 2012 10:30 am

    Hi Lee,

    I have Scarpa T-1 with an Intuition liner that I took from a T-race, same size (27). After heating at home (in a rather odd method) I got a nice feel almost everywhere, except they are still narrow on the forefoot.

    So the questions are…

    -if my forefoot, regarding width inside the shell, is loose by only a few mm, can I really expect the liner to give enough room for it?

    -the area of the liners material starting from the sides of the forefoot and around in front of the toes is a narrow red strip in a half circle, opposed to the otherwise black material. Is this red material is also thermoforming, are there any ways to know if it is some sense baking them again?

    I thank you for any help and comment …not many tele boots in shops in this part of the world! plus… I like to ski the right boot lenght when possible. :-)

  188. Lee Lau June 12th, 2012 3:26 pm

    Franco – answer to first question is Yes.

    To second question – I don’t know. I’m not familiar with that liner – that might be the one made specially for Scarpa.

  189. Franco June 12th, 2012 8:26 pm

    Thank you Lee.

    This encourages me to get them properly cooked and look forward to a nice result. (and yes, the “red toes” liner is specially made for Scarpa).

  190. Andi February 20th, 2013 12:08 pm

    I’m wearing Black diamond Shiva’s, and am on my 3rd season. I wear them all the time, alpining and touring. This weekend, my ankles were so bruised and swollen after skiing. I’ve never had any problems with the boots before, and now I need to relplace the liners or the boots. Any advise?

  191. Lou Dawson February 20th, 2013 12:17 pm

    Andi, any heat mold liner from Intuition. For example, their Luxury Liner.

    https://intuitionliners.com/the-liners/luxury/

    Can you work with a boot fitter?

    Lou

  192. bernie February 21st, 2013 3:48 am

    Hi, I’ve got a pair of Intuition Powerwrap liners Mondo 26 that I bought last year and wore for 3 days but they were agony. Just too tight in my Dalbello boots. I’d like to sell them and get something back because I can’t use them and have gone back to the Dalbello liner. I’m based in the UK but am open to offers. I can email pictures etc to anyone interested. Thanks, Bernie

  193. Myra April 21st, 2013 6:55 pm

    Hi -
    I have Nordica SpeedMachine boots and recently had the liners replaced with the intuition luxury liner. I’ve had boot fitting problems my whole skiing life due to a wide foot, narrow heel and high arch. When I first got the Nordica’s (my 4th pair of ski boots) I had some c-pads installed to stop the heel lift and volume. Then I had 3 months (about 80 days) of the most comfortable yet performance skiing. Then I started getting Achilles heel pain and after about 2 weeks hoping it will go away, sought out my boot fitter for help. He convinced me that my problem was that the liners were packed out so I got the intuition luxury liner.
    Unfortunately, I am still having lots of problems – now it seems I’m back to the original issues of my boots. I had foam injected liners in my previous boots from SureFoot and these feel very similar. Often they are either too tight (when I am not skiing on them) or too loose once I start making turns. And, it seems they even become like cement as I am skiing – even developing an arch cramp in one of my feet (this isn’t just the same one – it is sometimes the left, sometimes the right). A ski coach suggested that I use compression socks as he thought it was my blood circulation that was causing this seeming ‘swelling’ and ‘contraction’ in my feet. However, I have been using compression socks for the past week and the problem still persists.
    Have you heard of similar issues for anyone and do you have any suggestions? I am wondering if I am just needing a softer liner, despite skiing at and advanced/expert level? Would you suggest I try the Godiva liner instead?
    Thanks, I really am at the end of my rope and need some help!
    Myra

  194. bernie April 22nd, 2013 3:04 am

    Hi, Myra

    Two things – firstly, I found that using Ibuprofen gel cured my achilles tendon problem caused by skiing in tight liners. Secondly, you sound a bit obsessional like I was with my too tight Intuition liners. I am an advanced skier but as an expert skiing friend said, “You don’t need them cranked up like a vice.” I’m now using the original Dalbello liners with an insert under the foot and they’re fine.

    Further to my previous comment if anyone is interested in the Intuition liners I would like to sell my email is berniegreen@yahoo.com

  195. John DeAngelis December 9th, 2013 7:43 am

    Hi
    My wife got a pair of Intuition liners and Dalbello boots, they felt good in the shop. Before her first day on them she put them in her heated boot bag for the night, as she did with her other boots. When we arrived at the ski area she noted the liners were now to short. Did putting them in her heated bag for the night cause a reaction and bring the liner back to it’s original size? Her Dalbello shells are 24.5 and the liners are size 24. She has been told a lot of good stuff about the Intuition liners especially about their warmth and would like to correct this fit issue. We will be bringing them back to our shop for a refit if that is possible.
    Thanks for your help and direction
    John

  196. bernie December 9th, 2013 8:24 am

    Hi, John, bear in mind that when they fit thermal liners, they heat them up before you step in them and maintain a certain position until they cool down. If you apply a considerable amount of heat it will allow the liner to expand a little. But, the difference between a perfect fit and pain is small. I’d get them refitted at the shop and take them to your room at night to allow them to dry overnight rather than put them directly onto heat or boot heaters.

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