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Intuition Liners — Everything You Always Wanted to Know

By Lee

It’s safe to say that Intuition revolutionized ski boot technology when they made the heat mold liner widely available. Here is the story.

Liners liners and more liners. They've got liners on the brain!

Intuition Sports Incorporated is a British Columbia incorporated company owned by Rob Watts. Its primary business is to make liners for ski boots and snowboard boots. The company was incorporated in 1992 by three partners working out of a garage.

Byron Gracie, Herbert Lang and Rob wanted to make boot liners that didn’t fall apart. Byron was a ski fanatic and a hobbyist who wanted performance ski liners. Pre-Intuition he spent quite a few years trying to make liners for himself. His first prototype liners were hand-stitched out of pigskin – a hand-crafted work of art! After one year, Byron wanted out of Intuition and returned to a life of ski-bumming. Herb and Ron disagreed on the method and necessity of forming the liners and after three years, Herb also wanted out, leaving Rob as sole owner.

Intuition looked around for liner material that could be sourced with a bit more consistency; experimenting with thermo-formable foam liners from various suppliers. Many boots and liners were trashed and foam found wanting, until Intuition ran into a little know New Zealand company called Ultralon. The first overlap one-piece Intuition liner was made in 1993 using off-the-shelf Ultralon foam. What later came to be known as Intuition foam was developed in 1995. The company subsequently applied for and was awarded a patent on the concept of an integral liner consisting entirely of sheetstock thermoplastic foam.

In the first few years of Intuition’s business all liners were made in Vancouver. As the company made greater quantities of liners, it was difficult to find the people to sew and make the liners and difficult to maintain quality. During its years as a Canadian manufacturing company, Intuition made between 20,000 to 30,000 liners a year and maintained a staff of about twenty people. As production volumes ramped up Rob had to make the tough decision to outsource production to China in order to maintain quality while keeping prices reasonable. Now the liners are made in China while prototype liners are still made in Vancouver.

Intuition now has three people in their modest offices in Vancouver but makes about 350,000 boot liners a year! Most of this production is for the OE (original equipment market) with the bulk of production (about 60%) targeted to the snowboard market. The ski boot market is also important to Intuition with most of that production going to alpine touring boots. With the introduction this year of more conventional tongue style liners, Intuition hopes to win business in aftermarket liners not just in alpine touring boots but also in conventional alpine liners.

Intuition also makes products for other markets utilizing their thermoformable foam; including, for example, wakeboard boots; medical orthotics, splints, etcetera.

Design Philosophy
Intuition liners were designed to improve on stock boot liners and to have the following features:

* Lighter
* Warmer
* Last longer due to better quality
* Better fit
* Tuneable

I’ve been using Intuition liners for the past year, replacing old boot liners from my Garmont MegaRides with Intuition Alpine liners. I can say that this is one of the cases where hype does meet reality. The Intuition liner really is that good and your feet will thank you for that. I’ve actually found them to be such a drastic improvement that I changed out boot liners from my alpine boots to the relatively stiffer Alpine Powerwraps model.

One key to Intuition’s success is its use of a special formulation of Ultralon foam. Ultralon is one of many brands of EVA (Ethylene-vinyl_acetate) thermoformable foam; a mature product used in many industrial applications. Intuition came up with a unique formulation of the Ultralon closed cell foam that was more resistant to heat-related shrinkage and pressure related “packing out” than other types of foam.

Intuition’s liners start their life as a cut-out of closed-cell foam. This cut-out is sewn and then heated up and molded with a “last” (ie. a plastic model of a foot). This process takes place in China and results in the standard overlap generically-shaped Intuition liner ready to be custom molded.

Molding/Cooking Intuitions
First, know that any pre-molded Intuition boot liner has been molded to a generic foot shape and a generic boot. People with generic feet can frequently use this liner without issue. But to experience the full glory of a custom-fit you should custom-mold your Intuition liners.

Baking the Intuition liners on blower oven, now the preferred method because the liner remains lasted to the boot interior, with less likelihood of becoming twisted or wrinkled.

Intuition has designed and sells a special oven with blowers which allow you to heat the liners while they are in your boots – an innovation which has made molding the extremely thermoformable Ultralon foam a much easier process. Intuition obviously recommends getting its liners cooked using the blower style liner and also recommends that liners be thermo-molded by either dealers or by Intuition itself.

Nevertheless, for various reasons people will want to try to cook their own liners. For them, I’d point to the old dependable do-it-yourself Cooking with Big Tim video. I will note the caveat that if you’re not careful it is all too easy to heat damage, wrinkle and improperly mold the liners using any DIY process.

Molding Theory and Details
Intuition foam consists of millions of tiny cells, or bubbles. These closed-cell bubbles are created by pouring measured amounts of mixed ingredients (Intuition has a specific unique formula of ingredients) into a two-piece mold. This mold is sealed and heated under tremendous pressure, slowly and evenly. It’s then allowed to cool to ambient temperature.

This process results in a very uniform cell structure and a very high percentage (70% – 80%) of cross-linkage between molecules in each cell wall. This cross-linkage between the cells restricts gases trapped in each of the tiny bubbles of the cells from migrating; gas-migration between cell walls would change the shape and characteristics of the foam. The cell membrane is also treated with a chemical “filler” to create a more homogeneous membrane/structure.

The end-result of this complex process is high quality “memory” and resistance to “packing out.” In lay terms, the foam has a relatively good ability to keep a specific shape when molded with heat. The foam also has relatively robust structural integrity or quality (due to the homogeneity of the cell membrane structure and its consequent strength) and can be re-molded several times without compromise.

Intuition Liner Offerings
Prior to the 2007-8 model year, Intuition was well-known for its overlap liner. New for this year, Intuition has introduced two models of tongue liners, i.e., liners with a tongue as opposed to liners that have overlapping wings. Photos of the liners on the Intuition website show why they are named as such.

Liners for plug boots.

The 2008-9 lineup features new entries to Intuitions lineup; the Luxury and Freeride tongue liner:

* Luxury Liner (tongue type liner with stiffer tongue)
* Freeride Liner (tongue type liner with softer tongue)
* Power Wrap (with 1mm of AEPE stiffer plastic foam in the cuff of the liner, this is the stiffest Intuition liner).
* Power Wrap Plug (a moderately stiff liner with thinner foam for people who wear boots that have a tight fit)
* Alpine (a moderately stiff liner for all around performance)
* Godiva (women-specific moderately stiff liner; extra padding in spots where women tend to have issues with liners)
* Universal (shorter and softer then the Alpine, this liner is for low-cuff boots)
* Denali (very short liner for climbing boots)

Cutaway of (from L to R) - thicker 12mm Alpine Powerwrap liner and thinner 9mm Plug liner.

Invariably the question will come up – what liners should I get? This question is better addressed in the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) at the end of this article. Having said that, bear this in mind.

1. Plug liners are intended to have a closer fit. Contrast the 12mm thick foam in the Alpine and Alpine Powerwrap liners with the 9mm foam used in the Plug liners. This allows for better fits in a more “race”-like boot as the Ultralon foam used in more traditional Intuitions may take up too much space as it expands when cooked.

2. Tongue liners are optimized for comfort and not necessarily as stiff as the stiffest overlap liners. Moreover, there are two varieties of tongued liners with tongues of varying stiffness. They are Intuition’s new direction for OE and aftermarket and are designed to be useable even without thermo-molding (although sure do fit well when molded!). Here’s some features of a tongue liner vs the overlap liner construction:

* Panelled construction.
* More evenly distributed cuff pressure.
* Easier to refine due to design and tuneability.
* Better energy transmission to ski edge due to better fit.
* More fitting options then even the overlaps.

Generally speaking, Intuition is recommending either the Luxury or Freeride tongue liner for alpine touring applications; the Alpine Powerwrap overlap liner for alpine boots and the Alpine overlap liners for alpine touring boots. It gets a bit confusing when deciding between the tongue liners and overlap liners. I would imagine that those people who don’t have ready access to a dealer or an Intuition oven to thermo-mold their liners or who are simply reluctant to play DIY over-roulette with a brand new pair of liners would be better served by getting a tongue liner.

Of course, individual preference and individual feet play an even larger role in liner selection and selecting the correct liner size. The boots in which the liners will be used, skier skill, skier size and weight, terrain skied, individual preference (i.e., loose fit vs tight fit) …. all these factors play a role in determining which liner will fit the bill.

New woman-specific Godiva liner has padding in places where women tended to experience shin and calf-bang.

OEM liners
I should throw in a few quick words about original equipment (OE) liners that Intuition produces. These are liners which Intuition makes in bulk quantities for various ski and snowboard boot companies. To take the example of one company, Scarpa has sourced its liners from Intuition for some time. Intuition’s liners have actually become a bit of a product differentiator for Scarpa and it seems both companies have benefited from that relationship; Intuition in increased sales and exposure and Scarpa in having high quality liners that many skiers regard as the best available.

As OE liners have such big runs, Intuition customizes OE liners to accommodate manufacturer specifications. Some of these customizations have crept into Intuitions’ standard product offerings. For example Scarpa liners have silicone grippy tread on the bottom of the liner and thinner foam on the footbed area to accommodate placement of footbeds.

There you go, any questions?

(Guest blogger Lee Lau is an avid skier and outdoorsman embarking on many adventures with his loving, and sometimes concerned wife, Sharon. He has over 15 years of experience skiing, ski-touring and dabbles in mountaineering. In the “off-season” he is occasionally found working in his day job as an intellectual property lawyer when he is not mountain biking. As a resident of Vancouver, British Columbia, Lee’s playground extends mainly to Western Canada, including South West B.C. and the Selkirks.)

Posted by Lee on January 29, 2009 | Filed Under Boot Fitting, Boot Reviews, Lee Lau, Your Guest Blogs

Comments

71 Responses to “Intuition Liners — Everything You Always Wanted to Know”

Mike Marolt January 29th, 2009 10:42 am

Lou,

I have to agree with you. The Intuition Luxery Liner is the best liner i have ever used. Super light, incredibly warm, and makes any boot ski better. I use them in my Technica Agent AT boots as well as my Atomic Race 140 on mountain boots.

As they relate to my AT boots, the Luxery Liner specifically is a tongue type and lets the boot flex better for climbing, but has a stiff upper tonue for superior skiing when you buckle down. I am so stoked on this particular liner you can’t imagine. They are thick and really smooth out vibrations on hard pack. They also do not pack out and last like you can’t imagine. I have a well over a hudred days in my AT alone for the past couple years. One of the most important pieces of gear i have; no blisters or frozen toes and ski great!

M
Brady January 29th, 2009 11:04 am

I have an extremely narrow, flat, and low volume foot… and leg. I’ve struggled finding boots that fit. I’m not a backcountry skiier, although I’d like to be, but an expert alpine skier, who generally skis steep terrain at Snowbird, Utah. Do intuition liners generally work for folks with very narrow/low volume feet and legs? Do they generally work as aftermarket liners in all boots?

Thanks
Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 11:27 am

Brady,

Generally speaking Intuition liners do work as aftermarket on all boots. Having said that, I’ve heard anecdotally that they can have a tough time being fitted in some boots with incredibly narrow heelcups.

For you, I would think that the “Plug” liners would work.

Have a look at the Intuition site at http://www.intuitionliners.com/ – contact either them directly or your local Intuition dealer. The best answer is for a bootfitter to see your feet in your boots who can hopefully assess what liners will work with your feet or what boot or liner work needs to be done..
Dongshow January 29th, 2009 11:39 am

Do the luxury liners lace up?
Mike Marolt January 29th, 2009 11:48 am

Dong Show, they do not, but we have simply punched holes; the material is really thick and works great. I have a feeling the laces are in the works for them.

Brady, the luxery liner is thick enough to where it will mold to any boot very easily. over the years, i have molded to my two pair of boots today, but also Lowa and Scarpa in years past. No problem at all. I litterally have no knocks on these liners.

FWIW, Mike
Jordan January 29th, 2009 12:01 pm

Lee,

Great post. I also live in B.C. and have Garmont Mega-Rides.

My question: do you find the Intuition liners warmer than the ones that came with the Mega-Rides? During the cold snap in December, we had to spend an emergency night out in a snowcave and I got bad frostbite on my toes from the time spent fiddling around in my boots. Many people have told me that if I had had Intuition liners, my toes would have survived better.

Of course, living on the Coast the vast majority of time my feet are way TOO warm, so I can’t really win….

Thanks.
Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 1:58 pm

Jordan,

The Intuitions are quite a bit warmer then MegaRide Palau liners. They also take up more space and stiffen up the boot quite a bit. The Intuitions won’t hurt the tourability of the MegaRides.

One thing I’ll do for emergencies or if I’m overnighting FYI is to take some heat packs with me in a kit bag. They’re small and if you stick them in boots or gloves they’ll save a lot of pain.
dan January 29th, 2009 2:13 pm

one of my intuition heels is packing out considerably — and i know enough about boot fitting to know that the only “remedy” offered by bootfitters is to but that curved sticky foam around the ankle — I don’t think this is an ideal fix though (cause it mostly justs packs in the ankle) and I may experiment with layering ultra thin sticky material on the outside of the heel itself – I can’t afford new liners currently – so that is not an opiton.
Lou January 29th, 2009 3:05 pm

Dan, I’ve got skinny heels and on some of my boots over the years I’ve had to mold the liner, then add a layer of foam on the outside of the heels. Makes it so you can’t rebake the liners, but does the trick.
Justin January 29th, 2009 3:27 pm

The picture with the liners cut so you can see the foam inside says it’s a luxury liner. Aren’t those actually Power Wraps and Plugs?
Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 3:49 pm

Justin,

Good catch. You’re right. I think some captions got swapped around. It should be captioned

Cutaway of (from L to R) – thicker 12mm Alpine Powerwrap liner and thinner 9mm Plug liner
Lou January 29th, 2009 4:03 pm

Probably my fault. Fixed.
Chris Weber January 29th, 2009 7:30 pm

Lou-
Just got a pair of zeus. Considering intuition liner to replace the stock liner. I come from a tele T1 boot with overwrap, so the tongue style seems less supportive (just guessing)… would either the overwrap or tongue style intuition work well in the zeus? Is the intuition liner, in general, that much better than the stock zeus liner?
Thanks,
Chris
Lee Lau January 29th, 2009 7:53 pm

Chris,

I tested a ZZeus 27.5. The stock Dynafit liner pinched my foot and was also quite a bit heavier then an Intuition liner. I put a 27.0 Intuition Alpine liner custom-molded to my feet in a Garmont Megaride shell in the ZZeus and the boot was now comfortable.

The Intuition tongue liner will also work with the ZZeus.

I can’t say if the Intuition liner is “better” then the stock ZZeus liner. It’s certainly lighter but IMO the better liner is the one that fits better.

Finally, the tongue liner is generally less stiffer then the overlap liner.
Sylvia January 30th, 2009 12:06 am

Brady,

Intuition offers different volume liners (ie thicker or thinner foam) on at least some of their liners (I have the luxury – don’t know about others). You can thus get a higher volume liner to take up the extra space for your low-volume feet.

Sylvia
Dostie January 30th, 2009 7:44 am

Lee Lau,

Nice report. Thanks for all the details. Must say I’m impressed with the current generation of Intuition liners from Scarpa.
KDog January 30th, 2009 8:36 am

I just ordered some Intuitions for my Megarides and the boot fitter recommended the Power wraps. He asked if I was an aggressive skier and I said moderately but I did not want to sacrifice tourability. I’m going in tomorrow to have them fit and now I am wondering if I should have ordered the Luxury or the Alpine. Any suggestions?

Kevin
Lou January 30th, 2009 8:59 am

I toured for years in the wraps and never had a problem. Much of how they work while touring is how the boot is buckled, as you have to rig things in such a way as to allow the wrap to let go a bit, otherwise it does feel restricting compared to a tongue liner.
Lee Lau January 30th, 2009 11:34 am

Kdog how much do you weigh?

I’ve got the soft stock touring tongue for the MegaRide and I’ve also used the black Scarpa stiff tongue in the MegaRide. At a 160lbs, the Alpine liner and the black touring tongue is plenty for me but then I prefer softer boots.

I’ve toured in the Power Wraps. Like Lou, I found the Power Wraps a bit restricting even when I do what’s customary for me and slacken off all my buckles for touring.

I’ve also toured in the Luxury liners (but in Scarpa Spirit 3s). I’d say they’re comparable to the Alpine liners in terms of stiffening up the boot and just as comfortable for me. The Luxury/tongue liners vs the Alpine/overlap liner choice is really a matter of fit. I’m fortunate in that my foot fits into a lot of boots without much problem so the issue of fit isn’t a big consideration for me.

What I’m trying to say is that the Powerwrap might be OK for you; if you’re the kind of person who is bigger then me, or prefers stiffer boots; or tours with buckles unlatched. I know this is wishy-washy and hope it helps
Lee Lau January 30th, 2009 11:37 am

@ Sylvia and @ Brady.

Sylvia, your response was actually good and caused me to take a step back. When Brady said he was going to use the liner in an alpine boot, I immediately thought he would want a tight fit and that he might already be in a plug -type boot; therefore my suggestion of a plug liner.

But your advice is probably correct because Brady mentioned he had a small volume foot. Assuming Brady has the correct shell size (Brady is that assumption correct?) then the thicker (12mm foam as opposed to 9mm foam) of the Alpine liners vs the Plug liners would help you take up more space in the boot to accomodate your low-volume foot. It’s a round-about way of agreeing with Sylvia.
John Gloor January 30th, 2009 12:04 pm

I’ve never had an overwrap liner and have some questions about them. Once the shell of a boot is buckled, is there really any advantage to a wrap liner or a well made BOA system like BD uses in their AT boots? I can see having a snug liner when unbuckled and skinning as nice, but it seems the buckled plastic shell would clamp down snug enough to offset any support wraps or laces give. I’ve always pulled the laces from AT liners since they seem like a hassle to me, and the wrap seems like it might be hard to get into. My question is, is there a skiing advantage to a wrapped or laced liner? Most alpine race liners are injected foam/silicone tongue style and are the pinnacle of performance, but are cold and heavy
Lou January 30th, 2009 1:48 pm

John, the wrap isn’t any different to get into as it opens up wide. I think it’s more a personal preference thing. If you have trouble with the top of your feet using tongue liners, it’s worth trying a wrap. Another advantage of Wraps is they tend to fill up more volume in the cuff of the boot, which is nice for folks with skinny legs, that’s one reason I like them. They’re also a bit warmer in my opinion because they trap more air. But they don’t breath as well when your feet are hot. I do notice the added freedom of movement with tongue liners while on the uptrack.
KDog January 31st, 2009 9:00 am

Lee, I’m 5′ 11″ 195, so I’m no lightweight and I do tour with my buckles loose. That being said I still don’t want to feel like I’m wearing casts while climbing. I go in today to get fit so we’ll see. I have been cranking down the upper buckles when skiing down lately. I’ve been liking the added control. I came from Tele and I think it has taken a few years to get used to being really strapped in to a boot. Floppy, loose feeling boots never bothered me before.
Kevin
Rob Staudinger January 31st, 2009 9:17 am

I’ve never used wrap liners, so any danger they cause more friction on the shins? Seems I’m a bit sensitive in the lower shin area, had problems once or twice when using older, less tight socks. Considering to get the ZZeus (maybe only for next season though), not sure I’ll be able to seriously demo them (like, 3000ft tour). Could this be a problems?
Jeremy Allyn January 31st, 2009 9:54 am

Thanks guys! I got some Scarpa Skookums this season to replace older Megarides – I’m using the stock Intuition liner. A little bit of back story….

Around 17 months ago I had reconstructive surgery on both feet after an accident. My right foot, in particular, changed shape and length, and suffers from some nerve damage and is more susceptible to cold injury. I needed new boots – longer, wider, and warm.

All in all I’m super psyched about the ski and touring performance of the Scarpas, but am really struggling with VERY sweaty feet. This is making my other problems that much more of a challenge, and is the case regardless of weather or conditions.

I’ve had a fair amount of experience with Intuitions over the years (from high altitude AK climbing, to very cold temps skiing, to hot mountain ski missions in the Cascades) and think moisture management has always been a serious issue – I don’t consider myself alone in this.

I have enough days on my skis this season to determine this is not necessarily the result of funkiness in my right foot – my left one is pretty much back to normal and the wetness is the same side to side.

I’ve tried all the normal routes thus far – varying sock type and thickness, changing socks mid day, adjusting buckles, airing out at short breaks, and the flip-side – heat packs, etc.

It is interesting to note that I was on Rainer a few weeks ago (in 50 degree temps no less!) wearing a pair of LaSportiva Spantiks (high altitude climbing boot) and didn’t get the slightest bit of wetness. Apples and oranges, I know.

Perhaps you can shed some light on this aspect of Intuitions? Seems like a different liner is in order. Any thoughts? Cheers.
Michael January 31st, 2009 5:31 pm

Lee,

Thanks for the great review, lots of good information here …

Any idea if we can buy the Scarpa specific liner from intuition? (The one that goes into the Scarpa Spirit 4?

Thanks.
Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 7:58 pm

Kdog – I think you’ll probably be fine with the Powerwraps given that you don’t tour with the buckles tight. You’re definitely bigger then me.
Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 8:03 pm

I’ve never used wrap liners, so any danger they cause more friction on the shins? Seems I’m a bit sensitive in the lower shin area, had problems once or twice when using older, less tight socks. Considering to get the ZZeus (maybe only for next season though), not sure I’ll be able to seriously demo them (like, 3000ft tour). Could this be a problems?

@Rob

The wraps probably won’t cause trouble skiing as long as they fit properly (to state the obvious) – after all then the boots will be buckled and you shouldn’t get shin bang. They might cause more trouble with the shins when you’re touring or hiking long long distances.

I did have some issues with shins when I retreated off the alpine due to weather and spent two days bushwhacking out blowdown, swamp, devils club, slide alder and then logging road. in my wrap liners. It’s hard to imagine that any liner wouldn’t have trashed my feet in that situation but I know my shins did get especially sore and abraded by way of this somewhat arkward situation
Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 8:06 pm

@ Jeremy. There’s no question that’s one downside of the liner. It is warmer then other liners. The problem is that all Intuitions are all manufactured out of the same thermomoldable foam so all the liners have the same similar characteristics of being warm. Good most times but, like you found, not ideal for people with sweaty feet in warm conditions.

Intuition once suggested that you could try perforating the liners. I just don’t see how well this would work since your liner is encased in a non-permeable boot. The liner just doesn’t transpire much moisture or heat.

Sorry – I know that doesn’t help a lot.
Lee Lau January 31st, 2009 8:08 pm

@ Michael – I know Intuition is working on a liner with the specific characteristics of the Scarpa OE liner ie the Silicon Sole (grippy tread wear pattern) and the thinner 9mm foam foot section (can be thermomolded with a footbed) – but you can’t currently buy such a liner.

I’ll check whether they have prototypes out right now
KDog January 31st, 2009 8:59 pm

Thanks for all the info Lee. I just got back from the boot fitter and the new Powerwraps feel great. I’m going touring tomorrow to the top of Ben Lomond peak so they will get a full test with steep uptrack and bootpacking as well.
Point of interest to this discussion. The bootfitter said he did not like to use the blowers to heat the liners in the shell. He said that they don’t heat the interior of the liners evenly and won’t heat the exterior at all. He said this does not allow the exterior to conform to the boot shell properly, leaving voids that the liner eventually compresses to fill. People may think their liners are packing out when they are just forming to the voids.
He heated the liners in a oven and placed a thin stocking like thing over them to keep them from buckling or wrinkling. He also used a large shoehorn in the back of the shell and lots of silcone spray. They slipped in easily and formed perfectly. My wife was having some Alpine wraps molded for her Tele boots and they even had a perfect bellows mold in the tops. I’ve never seen that with a Palau liner.
All in all the best liner bake off experience I’ve ever had. Hope they ski as good as they feel!
Kevin
Justin January 31st, 2009 10:13 pm

you can buy the Scarpa/Intuition liners on telemark-pyrenees.com
Sean February 1st, 2009 10:04 am

Nice write-up, Lee — as usual. Thanks for the thoroughness.
Lou February 1st, 2009 10:59 am

About blower heaters for liner molding. I was about ready to buy one for the WildSnow shop, but they’re expensive and indeed don’t heat the liner up as much as I’d like to see. So I’ve gone back to molding some liners with my convection oven. With care and skill, doing so still seems to work fine.
Magnus February 2nd, 2009 10:45 pm

Scarpa Intuition Liners can be bought at telemark pyrenees
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=1_48_150&products_id=3892&osCsid=59e69cfa000dc5b1bd30cfd870327978
they carry three models
Lee Lau February 3rd, 2009 2:41 pm

Thanks Magnus and Justin – i learned something new there
John Schulte February 3rd, 2009 5:38 pm

I have Head Raptor 120s so I am thinking of purchasing one of the intuitions for Alpine use. The fit is fairly tight as the last is about 98 mm. The instep is low as well. To get them on and off I push down/out hard on the tongue to spread the lower shell. Would the overlap even work for me? Perhaps the model with the tongue would be better, but I’m concerned the tongue would soften up the flex. I guess I’m wondering if the intuition liners would be an upgrade and if so which one.

John
Mike Traslin February 3rd, 2009 10:14 pm

Love the intuition liner at one point I have used the same wrap around liner for four different boots!
I have a low volume foot so I have been using a size ten liner in my size nine shell!
While tail guiding in the monashee’s I had one client who was able to get 12 years or more out of his classic raichle bubble boots![Thanks to the intuition liner]He said he would have had to quit otherwise!
Derf February 5th, 2009 1:43 am

My toes freeze more and more.
I noted that the structure of the Ultralon foam have changed for some new models.
There are fewer of EVA used (which was the basis for a good thermoforming) and more Pe foam with less density and maintenance ( but lower in weight).
Thermoforming time in my convection oven is less, liner is cook much faster now . Care.
Same thing for toe box, that it seems to me that Intuition is using Neoprene and no Eva.
Do we must expected a restriction of raw material costs at the expense of the qualities of the product?
Lee Lau February 6th, 2009 8:50 pm

@ John Schulte. You’re a good candidate for either the Alpine Powerwrap or the Plug liner (if your last and boot is a tight fit). It’ll keep the stiff characteristics of the Head boots. I suspect the tongue liner would soften up the flex too much
Lee Lau February 6th, 2009 8:52 pm

Derf,

I can’t speak to future manufacturing but the raw material cost of the Ultralon foam isn’t a huge component of their costs. I doubt that’s a material contributor.

For what its worth, the Alpine overlap liner is probably their warmest liner – it certainly has the thickest foam.
Justin February 7th, 2009 8:48 pm

So it looks like this years Powerwraps have a different style power wrap material, stitched on instead of glued on this year. They also seem significantly softer than last years, because of the different material. Anyone used both that can comment on any difference in stiffness?
chris February 20th, 2009 5:17 pm

Hi,

I recently got some new alpine boots, lange wc 120. They are fairly stiff (and cold) and don’t think I want to stiffen them more. I would like to get a custom liner but not sure which one makes sense. I have a narrow foot and skinny leg/calf, the lange is also a low volume/narrow shell. I use to compete in moguls and still ski them a lot so the liners take a beating.

chris
Lee Lau February 20th, 2009 5:47 pm

Hey Chris,

I had Langes. I’m one of the lucky ex-Lange wearers who still have their toenails. You have my sympathies.

Get the Plug liners. Ordinarily I’d say get the Alpine liners as they’re warmer (thicker foam) but Langes are shell-sized fit so small that there probably won’t be enough space.

Also my Langes leaked snow in the front of the boots. Don’t know if yours do but the solution was duct-tape on the front of the boots over the overlap. Not pretty but it worked
Jeremy February 26th, 2009 5:08 pm

I’ve been using stock liners on some Salamon alpine boots for the past 3 seasons. The stock liners are definetely packed out and need to be replaced, but I was wondering if gettin some intuition liners would save me from having to buy new boots. I’ve had the shells checked out and they seem to be still in decent shape. I’m hoping they would feel like new boots with some intuition liners put in them. Right now I’m kinda scaring myself skiing with loose sloppy boots.
Lou February 26th, 2009 5:59 pm

Yeah, unless the shell cuff rivets have a bunch of play or the shell is cracked, no reason it shouldn’t perform like new with a new liner. Go for it.
John Schulte March 1st, 2009 3:17 pm

Does anyone know of any model changes for next year? I would love to see a model with a stiffer tongue and less foam in the sole to better accommodate a custom footbed.
diver7 March 7th, 2009 2:42 pm

Big calves? Any guesses as to which Intuition would be best suited for a guy with 18″ calves? Even if the boot fitter can cut my shell liner down or flare it, my calves are still going to be >12″ around. Will an overlap style liner mold to huge calves or should I stick to the new tongued models? I’m still looking for a dealer that has both in stock so that I could try both styles on. Not sure what I need.

For the post above me, it sounds like Intuition is coming out with a tongued liner (Luxury liner) that has a very thin sole for using footbeds.
Lou March 7th, 2009 4:35 pm

Diver, the upper part of a thermo liner is usually quite moldable, but if you really want it to flex out you probably should use the oven bake rather than the heat tubes, at least in my experience. The wrap liner might work better, as it has quite a bit of adjustment range in terms of how far it wraps.
Denise June 15th, 2009 9:28 am

Jeremy Allyn
It is several months since your comments about finding your feet too hot and sweating in the intuition liners..you’re probably into summer sports right now.
One thing you might want to consider is botox injections for your feet as that will totally stop any excess sweating. Not cheap but it will work.
Lou June 15th, 2009 11:58 am

Denise, thanks! How does one go about getting that, just ask a GP or does it need to be done by a specialist?
Jimbo October 4th, 2009 7:29 am

Oh no!
Just when I’ve decided to get Luxury liners, they come out with TOURING Luxury Liners. They have a lacing system and different cuff/tongue plastic…
Any info out there? Thanks in advance….
Cynthia November 1st, 2009 11:41 am

I have Intuition liners that are about four seasons old (maybe 100+ days). There are no abrasions or wear on them, but they are no longer fitting well. Too tight in the toes, heels are now blistering. They were perfect for three seasons. Are they worn out or can they be refitted?
Lou November 1st, 2009 11:56 am

You should be able to re-mold those. Sounds like your feet changed. Happens to the best of us (grin).
Gerard November 8th, 2009 10:03 pm

I have a pair of 9 Scarpa F1’s that came with Scarpa tongue liners. I’m now getting pressure/bruising on the top/front of my foot/ankle where the edge of the tongue ends up. I’m thinking of trying intuition wrap liners to spread the pressure out. A complicating factor is that I’m between sizes; the next size up felt huge, so I went with the smaller size and molded them with aggressive padding on the front of my toes to get the length.

Would wrap liners provide better padding for the front of my ankle? Which model/size would you recommend? (I would be happy with a bit more liner projecting above the shell to reduce the pressure around the calf when buckled up tight.

Thanks,

Gerard
matt November 18th, 2009 11:35 am

I recently pulled a pair of lightly used Raichle Fexion Comps out of my closet and kinda wanted to put some intuition liners in them. With the Raichle (now Full Tilt) height should I go with Full Tilts liner (made by Intuition) or can I just buy an intuition off the rack? Thanks, Matt
Lou November 18th, 2009 2:53 pm

The Flexon shell is quite high, I’d think for it to work correctly you’d need the Full Tilt liner.
Lou November 18th, 2009 2:55 pm

Gerard, yes, a wrap liner may provide quite a bit more smoothness and padding in the front. The Scarpa/Intuition Universal is a good bet.
Scott Dresser November 28th, 2009 7:29 pm

Lou:

I am wondering what the exact difference is between the two Scarpa sizes 26.5 and 27. I know the shell is the same and all Scarpa says is that the liners are “lasted” for the half sizes. My bigger foot is a 10, which would lead me towards the 27 size. But is it a different footbed only, or is the Intuition liner actually made to a different size than the 26.5? At this price, I’d need to know . . .

Thanks.
Lou November 28th, 2009 7:49 pm

Scott, we do strive to beat Scarpa customer service at their own game, but that one stumps me. Sorry about that.
Gerard November 28th, 2009 8:09 pm

When I bought my F1’s a few years ago the Scarpa dealer told me that the liners for the smaller size within the same shell size were prebaked slightly to cause them to expand and make the fit a bit tighter in the store. Of course, as soon as you mold them that difference is lost. So it doesn’t matter which one you get. In fact, they told me that they were considering ordering the boots in full sizes only.

This information is a few years old now so maybe they have changed how they do things and actually mold the liner on a different size foot last. or maybe not. YMMV

Gerard
Lou November 28th, 2009 8:53 pm

It matters more if the liner is a “stroble” liner, meaning the sole area is shaped and stitched to the upper part of the liner. I’m not near my Skookum boots at the moment, but I recall those liners are indeed stroble, as are the Intuition Universals I’m playing around with, as well as the Dynafits.
tony January 12th, 2010 6:32 pm

I am trying to get an intuition that will fit my Technica Diablo. Here is the problem. The stock liner tongue is rigid, the shell is low in the tongue area. I tried the alpine intuition but it does not give enough support in the toungue area and allows to much forward lean when you need to drive the boot/tongue. I need rigidity in the tongue area and I am not sure there is a liner right for it. I have a moderately high instep and arch and tend to have a plenty of natural forward lean and possibly overdrive the boot when my technique is less than stellar.
Frank K January 12th, 2010 8:32 pm

Tony, have you checked out zipfits for your Technicas? While I love Intuitions for my AT boots, I prefer zipfits for my technicas.. I’ve done a couple of pairs over the years, and I’ll probably get another pair this spring, since my stock liners are once again on their last legs
Daniel January 19th, 2010 9:17 am

As a fresh follow up to an older post, has anyone tried the new Pro Tour Intuition liners? Any thoughts?
Chad January 20th, 2010 11:17 am

I have a pair of Adrenalins and looking to replace the liners. It looks like the Luxury Liner is my best bet. I use my boots for riding lifts and touring in the backcountry. The original g-fit liners worked well for me without molding but I can’t find a replacement. The g-fit is a 28.5 so I am assuming that I would go with a 28 Intuition. Any suggestions?
Stephen January 24th, 2010 3:17 pm

My Intuition liners are beginning to delaminate. Can the fabric of the Intuition Liner be reattached to the foam? Are there other repair options?
KDog January 24th, 2010 4:01 pm

I second Daniel’s post.

I too would like some beta on the Intuition Pro Tour. My Garmont/Palau’s have packed out and I want a lace up.

Lou? Anyone? Bueller?
Lou January 24th, 2010 4:59 pm

KDog, the liners are at WildSnow HQ, so we’ll get the reviews going soon. I’m sure they’re a good option, don’t see why they wouldn’t be…
Erica February 3rd, 2010 6:13 pm

I love my intuition liners but they are 5 years old and have worn holes on both inside heals to the point where I get blisters everytime I go skinning. Can you recommend one of the new intuition liners? I have Garmont Ener-G fit boots and was thinking about the New Pro Liner or the Godiva. Any advice would be greatly appreciated for happy touring ventures :)
Mark February 8th, 2010 10:13 pm

I have Intuition liners in two pairs of AT boots and one pair of plastic climbing boots. One pair was bought used with a single mold on them and one pair was of the infamous $20 Morrows. The last came stock with Scarpa Tornado. All work great, and I cooked all of them in my home oven. I hope the DIY continues to be possible…i.e. no fancy materials or designs are added that require a blower.