Comments on: Backcountry Skiing News Thursday

By: john Gloor

john Gloor — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:16:02 +0000

I just heard the latest on this area. Apparently the Ski Co is going ahead with a boundary expansion in the area we discussed. The out of bounds area from Pandora’s to Harris’ wall is being eyed for inbounds skiing. A friend who drives snowcats for the Ski co said he will be skidding logs out of Pandora’s as soon as the mountain closes. First they had to get rid of those pesky snowmobilers, and now the public looses more back/side country skiing.

By: dave

dave — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:09:00 +0000

Good reply John. I agree with you too!

By: John Gloor

John Gloor — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:15:14 +0000

Dave, you raised some good points there. Those sledders were probably wrong on two accounts. The cat operation probably has exclusive rights to their over the snow roads, and as the uphill vehicle on a constricted trail or road, they generally have the right of way. The sledders seem like jerks from your story. However, around Aspen, there are not thousands of acres available for the sled skiers. If one looks on a map it is apparent that every drainage is surrounded by wilderness, and the one valley which isn’t wilderness( Hunter Creek) has very strict rules governing motor usage. Also, sled skiers need appropriate ski terrain, which further limits where they can recreate as opposed to slednecks who are happy wherever their motor will take them. With legal and terrain restraints, there are not a lot of options in the upper Roaring Fork Valley for sled skiers and I feel the Ski Co has been given too much. They also tried to incorporate parts of Richmond Ridge into their ski area in the early eighties but were shot down due to opposition (someone correct me if my memory has it wrong). Since they did not get that control, they got the next best thing. I support single usage permits (ski area) for obvious safety reasons. The snowcat operation is not single usage since one can do any legal activity except operate a motor vehicle there (hunting included on Forest service land). I think the opposition to that area expansion would be greater today than it was in the eighties.
It may appear from my defense of sled skiers that I support them. What I support is legal access. I feel the 5300 acres of land that the Ski Co controls should be enough for them to offer a quality skiing experience. Now this 800 pound gorilla is getting more exclusive rights to your federal land, but they are willing to let you use it for a (steep) fee! When is enough, enough? If both sides could not come to a workable solution, then I would hope the rights of the public would come before corporate profit. I might even support some small independent competition (El Diablo?), but the monopoly the Ski Co has here and their influence is getting old.
Sorry for the long rant about motorized access issues on this touring site.

By: dave downing

dave downing — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:04:17 +0000

I am not a sled-neck. I’ve been on a snowmobile twice. I am not a regular cat skier. I have been on 2 cat trips at El Diablo new Silverton. Regarding the FS decision you have to consider a few other things. While a private operation SHOULDN’T have rights to a certain area, the actions of many snowmobilers (at least in the Silverton area) has led to the need for exclusive rights to areas. The cat operations put a lot of time into grooming and maintaining cat tracks in certain areas to shuttle guests. Once built there is a tendency for the sleds to want to use the same roads with much faster laps, tracking up the area the cats are using, and often general interference with the operators and clients.

While at El Diablo a few years back, we were heading up one particularly steep pitch of cat track, nearing the top of our 2nd run. Over the top of the hill we see 3 sleds coming down the track. They stopped in front of us and asked the cat to move! They claimed they couldn’t get there sleds off the track and into the powder snow. The proceeded to argue their point for the next 10-15 minutes while we waited. The slope was probably around 35 degrees and a significant issue for the cat. Turning around or backing up wasn’t really and option. I was about ready to jump out and beat the wholly hell out of these guys. I pay that kind of money (only $125 that day) to ski once every 4 years, and he says he can’t ride his snowmobile off the side of the track? Finally, with threat of calling the sheriff the sledders easily rode around the cat and down. It wasn’t a problem, they just didn’t want the cat operation there once the cat tracks were groomed.

And all that happened with 1,000s of acres of prime terrain all around that the Cat operation didn’t have a permit to operate in.

So, for all of this to work out for everyone, we will need BOTH sides to be respectful of the others.

And besides, how different is the cat operation having a roped off area on the backside of Aspen mtn than if aspen mtn expanded into current BC and didn’t allow sleds? It’s still open to the public for a price. Otherwise perhaps we should call for sled access to all ski areas in the FS?

Just thoughts…

By: Jim Jones

Jim Jones — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:30:56 +0000

The Skico is owned by the Crown family, which started a company called General Dynamics, you know the company which famously bilked the taxpayer out of millions with $20,000 hammers. So of course they won dealing with the
federal government, they own the politicians.