Comments on: Technical – Fritschi Crampon Penetration Depth

By: KenR

KenR — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:57:19 +0000

I suspect the real explanation for how it works in the 3rd heel position is that the role of the “ski crampon” is kinda subtle. Perhaps using the word “crampon” is not helpful because it suggests that it’s supposed to work like a boot crampon for ice-climbing. But the points on a boot crampon really do have to “hold” most of the body weight (except what rests on ice axe).

With harscheisen / couteaux / ski-crampons, _most_ of the climbing skier’s body weight is held by the metal ski edge plus the partly the friction of the edge of the climbing skin. So there’s no need for harscheisen points to penetrate as deep as boot-crampon points.

I remember when I first tried Fritschi harscheisen I was convinced just by looking that I would never trust them in the 3rd heel position. So at first I used them in the 2nd position. But I kept experimenting on steeper hardpack slopes, and before long I was using the 3rd position confidently.

So I suspect that if you look at the points of the harscheisen in isolation, you end up over-engineering them. If you test the total climbing system out in real touring situations, you discover that less is sufficient.

My own complaint about the Fritschi harcheisen is that they’re so bulky to store in my pack, and kinda heavy. I guess the new Axion ones address that, but I haven’t been motivated to switch.

Ken

By: KenR

KenR — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:07:59 +0000

I use my Diamir crampon lots with the heel elevator in the 3rd highest position. I find it works just fine for me. I do lots of touring in Europe where there’s lots of steep hardpack slopes to be climbed, and there’s lots of other skiers there who use the Fritschi harscheisen in the 3rd position. I’ve trusted it in lots of situations where the consequences of failure to grip would be long accelerating sliding fall.

I almost never use the Fritschi crampon on the 2nd heel elevator position recommended on this page.

True the crampon does not work well in the highest 4th heel elevator position — but there’s little call for that in real touring situations.

Bear in mind that out on real tours the crampon in the 3rd heel position is not used with the ski base flat on the snow, as shown with that board on that sheet in the photo on this page. The ski is edged and tilted substantially, so the crampon teeth penetrate deeper into hardpack than the vertical geometry of those measurements would suggest.

Ken

By: Lou

Lou — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:09:53 +0000

Adam, I was looking for some Axion comments so thanks! Review of those coming soon, but you took care of most of it.

By: Scott B

Scott B — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:58:01 +0000

Lou,

Can the crampon be mounted backwards? This would put it down into the snow lower.

I wonder why they don’t make it so the tines come strait down from the mounting point. It would be less effected by the binding lift that way.

By: adam olson

adam olson — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:03:19 +0000

Lou,
I own and use the Axion crampon w/ my Fritschi Freerides. What a great design. I just purchased a pair of Elan 888’s, they have an 88mm waist. The Axion works just fine on this width of ski. It looks to have 1mm clearance on each side of the crampon when engaged. The 82mm max width seems to be a typo.
The overall design of the Axion seems to offer the best all around performance. I can appreciate the B&D design and feel it comes in a close 2nd. Once the Axion is installed, usually done when skins are being put on, the user can w/ a ski pole “activate” the crampon by flipping it down. It flips up out of the way just as easy. When flipped up you are able to use the glide of skins without the drag of crampons, especially on more moderate terrain. For me this glide is important. Also important is the ability to use the crampon when I choose. The B&D design is an “always on” crampon, once installed it is ALWAYS biting the snow. The flatter the terrain the more bite it has. (What a drag!?)

I find that I only use the crampon during spring type conditions. In these spring type conditions I use a narrower ski. I have large powder skis for softer conditions. In these soft winter conditions where the skin track can be set flat, I never use ski crampons. The modern skins have more than enough bite for all skin tracks around here.
The Axion crampons do not work well w/ the heel inclinator in the highest position, I have learned to climb steeper terrain in the middle position. Here the crampon gets acceptable bite to climb and traverse.